Ph problems please help

[jlpounds2001]

OK no one replied on my last post so someone please help me. Im running the classic rubbermaid hybrid aero/bubbleponic setup with one airstone, six site,fox farm nutes, grodan cubes, hydroton, white widow from seeds, 400watt mh lamp earth juice ph adjuster, hanna combo meter. Now i mixed according to fox farm schedule and 3 more tb of Big bloom and 2 more of Growbig for 5 gallon res. Now the reason i added more is cause on my last grow of K2 they looked sick and i did everything so i got mad and just said fuck it and added more nutes and the next day they looked healthy as can be so thats what i thought happened this time. My PH rises from 5.8 to 8.0 in a matter of 2 hours and i have alot of "froth" in my tank. I read that if your PH goes up your plants are hungry so i thought this was the case so i added the 3tb more of big bloom and the 2tb of grow big and its still doing the same thing and i also read that a airstone can rise your PH and i had two so i backed down to one but its still doing it. I have six WW from seed and 4 of them look fine but two of the plants the leaves are curling under and barely any roots coming out from under the one and none of them seem to be growing. The only thing im thinking of doing is rinsing them out in RO water(i always use RO water by the way) and going back to the regular FF schedule and seeing what happens cause i read overferting can cause same effects and my light is 2 1/2 feet away from the plants. So can anyone please help? And also my pump is 15 on and 15 off and is it possible to overwater in this setup? PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!

 

[whitefrost]

i would flush and add new nutes without pix there is no way of knowing what is res temp room temp sounds like lockup to me and your light is to far away .high res temp will lock out nutes

 

[growenjp]

After looking at your pics I can't disagree with what has been stated. I use FF and I grow WW. I also made a similar unit and I believe your issues are PH related and not ppm related. I can tell my plants are hungry when water level goes down slower than the ppm. (i.e. Today it is 300ppm. Tomorrow it is 450. The plants have taken up more water thereby raising the ppm.) PH fluctuations as big as you have stated are not that common unless you are testing right after you mix in the nutes. I try to wait a while after putting in the nute to test ph. (15min or a bowl whichever is finished first) PH moving from 5.0 to 7.0 is pretty extreme and can really hurt your plants. I am guessing the first reading was off. Two hours is not long enough for plants to do this. My ladies are a little droopy when overwatered. I am guessing the ph has caused a delay in the rooting process (too high). Big ppms will not fix this, go the other way. As a rule I start FF at .25 strength and work up from there. Aero is really efficient and you should be using less than the schedule. Go to 25% and I bet a week later you will have roots galore on the two that are behind the others.

 

[Banditt]

looks like bacteria in the rez. I had a similar issue.(frothy water with ph rising like crazy) Does the water smell bad? Like a dirty mop or some shit? I would clean the rez out completely, flush the hydroton and rockwool with a little tap water, make sure everything is clean. Then start over with a newly mixed, ph'd nute solution.

 

[jlpounds2001]

Ok i just got done cleaning everything out and flushed the plants with RO water and cleaned the res. out and put in 1/2 strength mix of Big bloom and Grow big and lowered the light to 1ft and 1/2 and the res temp is between 68 and 70 degrees F. and temps in the room run between 75 and 80F so hopefully this works and i will report back tomorrow to update and on a side note on one of the plants on a couple of the roots look like someone took a lighter to it like it is burnt. Could this be from to much nutes? Not to many people want to help girls so i appriciate all your help guys

 

[Bubbleponic Chronic]

Ok i just got done cleaning everything out and flushed the plants with RO water and cleaned the res. out and put in 1/2 strength mix of Big bloom and Grow big and lowered the light to 1ft and 1/2 and the res temp is between 68 and 70 degrees F. and temps in the room run between 75 and 80F so hopefully this works and i will report back tomorrow to update and on a side note on one of the plants on a couple of the roots look like someone took a lighter to it like it is burnt. Could this be from to much nutes? Not to many people want to help girls so i appriciate all your help guys

The FoxFarm nutes will RAISE your pH if you use RO water. It will LOWER your pH if you used anything else. The film is from a pH over 9.0 so this should be corrected immediately. (Sounds like you did.) High pH is what the burn is from. Start with a clean rez and add your RO water. Mix your nutes 1/3 strength for now. Note: Always add pH correct nutrient water premix to your rez, not just tbsp's of nutes. The plant only accepts dissolved nutrients. Next, add your airstone. After about twenty minutes, check your pH and make tiny incremental adjustments allowing time for stabilization in-between. (Thoughts vary on this, but it is more accurate for me.) After you have it where you think it's good, re-introduce plants. Be available for the first few hours to check your rez as it really does only take a few hours to go wacky. There are also aftermarket pH stabilizers but I wouldn't recommend these because it is just a mask of the problem. You want to get to the root of it, so to speak.

??Just curious why do you mix grow and flower nutes?? FF Nutes are One Part and from my knwlg do not need to be mixed at any stage of growth.

Hope this helps.

 

[whitefrost]

yeah thats nute burn gradually up your nutes they will tell if they are getting what they need curling under and nute burn if to much and reaching up if not enough good luck hope they pull through

 

[jlpounds2001]

Im just following the FF schedule and it says to mix grow big and big bloom
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf
And everytime i used FF it has lowered my PH and i always use RO water. What do you mean by add only PH corrected nute premix to the rez? like premix it outside the rez? So i can't put my water in the rez and then add my nutes in their right ratios?

 

[Banditt]

Im just following the FF schedule and it says to mix grow big and big bloom
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf
And everytime i used FF it has lowered my PH and i always use RO water. What do you mean by add only PH corrected nute premix to the rez? like premix it outside the rez? So i can't put my water in the rez and then add my nutes in their right ratios?

Yes you should be ph'ing and adding your nutes to the water before putting the water in the res. This will prevent you from making any stupid mistakes. For example, I used to ph adjust my water in the res, I was baked one day and was checking ph. The ph was too high so I needed to add some ph down to the res. For some reason (baked and not paying attention) I picked up the PH up and added that instead. Fucked up my PH pretty good, and the plants were now sitting in water with > 8.0 PH. Which is not good. By mixing your nute solution outside the rez you can do all you PPM and PH testing and make sure everything is correct before you expose your plants to the new water.

 

[Bubbleponic Chronic]

Im just following the FF schedule and it says to mix grow big and big bloom
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf
And everytime i used FF it has lowered my PH and i always use RO water. What do you mean by add only PH corrected nute premix to the rez? like premix it outside the rez? So i can't put my water in the rez and then add my nutes in their right ratios?

You absolutely may do it your way but I have to add acid so I have a spare rez that I mix my water and nutes, let it jive, then make my incremental pH adjustments. I like to give the new tub a few hours to do it's thing. (That way my roots aren't exposed to it. If it wants to go to 100 pH thats fine, I'm not risking my plants.) When the mix is ready, take the lid from old rez and simply place onto new fresh and correctly tuned rez. Take old rez and dump, then wash and store until next water change.
And thanks for posting the FF schedule, I'll take a look!

 

[Bubbleponic Chronic]

Yes you should be ph'ing and adding your nutes to the water before putting the water in the res. This will prevent you from making any stupid mistakes. For example, I used to ph adjust my water in the res, I was baked one day and was checking ph. The ph was too high so I needed to add some ph down to the res. For some reason (baked and not paying attention) I picked up the PH up and added that instead. Fucked up my PH pretty good, and the plants were now sitting in water with > 8.0 PH. Which is not good. By mixing your nute solution outside the rez you can do all you PPM and PH testing and make sure everything is correct before you expose your plants to the new water.

Exactamundo.

 

[jlpounds2001]

Actually thats a good idea about the 2 rez's, im gonna start doing that. I got up this morning and the plants look a little more yellow so im assuming there hungry but the thing that confuses me is usually when plants are hungry your PH goes up and EC down but both are going up and i ran out of PH down so im using lemon juice till my down arrives in the mail cause i don't know what else to use and i ran out of nutes also, i didn't think i was that low on everything (i'll know better for next time to stock up) but the one out of the two plants with the leaves curled the one looks a little better but the other the looks like it's curling worse. So my plan is to get a new rez in case the other one was infected with bacteria and clean he new one with alcohol and soak new hydroton in RO PH 6 water for a couple days (already started) spray the rockwool in the net pots with clean water to get most of the nutes stuck in the rockwool out and clean everything in the tank with alcohol (pump and sprayers) and hold off on the air stones until the plants roots touch the water and mix nutes at 1/2 strength and go from there but if you guys think of anything else i can do please let me know. Thanks

 

[Bubbleponic Chronic]

Actually thats a good idea about the 2 rez's, im gonna start doing that. I got up this morning and the plants look a little more yellow so im assuming there hungry but the thing that confuses me is usually when plants are hungry your PH goes up and EC down but both are going up and i ran out of PH down so im using lemon juice till my down arrives in the mail cause i don't know what else to use and i ran out of nutes also, i didn't think i was that low on everything (i'll know better for next time to stock up) but the one out of the two plants with the leaves curled the one looks a little better but the other the looks like it's curling worse. So my plan is to get a new rez in case the other one was infected with bacteria and clean he new one with alcohol and soak new hydroton in RO PH 6 water for a couple days (already started) spray the rockwool in the net pots with clean water to get most of the nutes stuck in the rockwool out and clean everything in the tank with alcohol (pump and sprayers) and hold off on the air stones until the plants roots touch the water and mix nutes at 1/2 strength and go from there but if you guys think of anything else i can do please let me know. Thanks

In Emergencies you can use Distilled White Vinegar for pH Down and Baking Soda for pH Up. The leaves curled down is the effect of high pH. They will twist and the blades will curl down at the edges. New and fresh growth will be deformed and wilted looking. Once you develop a stronger root system and grow some more fan leaves, you may trim the bad ones back like you would a new clone's leaflets. (You know like a third or so off.)Since you will be purchasing new totes, I recommend purchasing black tubs as light does not easily penetrate. Next, go ahead and use your airstone now, theres nothing wrong with keepin' your rez percolating. Your nutes would just settle as opposed to dissolving more thoroughly. Gasses and air flow = good for healthy root growth. The bubbles popping on the surface will also find their way into your net pots, keeping your young roots moist allowing for the mycorrhizal fungi to thrive! Maybe save yourself some money and use your valuable nutrients once the root systm gets established. Just water is ok for the youngun's. Especially clean RO. Ok, now I need .

 

[jlpounds2001]

Ok update, i got a new tub, disinfected it with rubbing alcohol and put fresh RO water in, flushed new hydroton for 2 days and i had a nutrimist fogger laying around so i switched to that instead of of the bulky sprayer/pump system. Now the Fox Farm schedule says 2tsp per gallon of Grow Big and 1tb of Big Bloom (in which i don't think this schedule was meant for cannabis cause it dosen't seem to do well based on previous experance) but im out of Big Bloom (coming in the mail)so all i have in there is RO water (5 gal) and 10tsp of Grow Big. Now instead of the PH shooting up like it did before it just drifts up slowly which is alot better than just shooting up like before. My EC is at 1.1 and PH was at 5.8 when i left it yesterday and when i went to check this morning My EC is still the same and My PH drifted up from 5.8 to 7.4 over night and i believe that is normal and Im also out of down to which is also coming in the mail so im forced to use vinegar and i know its for emergencies but this is an emergency cause i dont have anything else and mail is delayed cause of new years so i was expecting it sooner but i forgot about new years and no mail. The one plant looks like it got a little more yellow and before the lights went out they were all drooping and looked "lifeless" but this morning they looked fine but with a yellowish tint and the one looks way more yellow than the rest but i thought if they were hungry the EC would of went down or do they need nutrients that the big bloom has in it which is causing them to have a yellow tint? And when the big bloom comes im going to change out the res. to 10tsp of Grow Big and the 5tb of Big Bloom, now is this a good idea? Cause on the schedule it says to have a EC of 1.6 to 1.8.

 

[jlpounds2001]

I also forgot to ask, what setting should i have my timer at to run the fogger? right now i have it running 15 on and 15 off, now is this overdoing it? Should i be running like 15 on and 1/2 off or 15 min every hour or something else? All i have is a segment timer in 15 min increments