NEW NFT (nutrient film technique) SOG SETUP

[sherriberry]

well how bout this...

i got some polyester that tot he naked eye looks as thin as silk.

but it is way more durable.

its a super fine white cloth that you can see through almost but not really.

should stand the test of time, isnt polyester synthetic, so it shouldnt break down?

i chose white so i could look for stains or filth.

i got it at a fabric store... 6 ft x 5, for about 8 bucks.

 

[fatman7574]

I have a freiend that flies owns and hot air baloons. Their bag (ballon is entirekly poyester. even with all the heat and the wateher the rolling up band bagging etc they still last about 10 years each. Some people think roots have to sit up a measurable distance an bove the bottom.. thai is not needed. the netting basically keeps the roots from sticking in a lamost suction like manner to the bottom. They water can actually get under the entire netting and between the netting and the roots. Then the O2 in the water layer has a large surface area in contact with all the bottom layeror so it can dissuse better Otherwise it has to very slowly try to get between little so paces between the root as the roots literally adhere to the bottom plastic. So it is basically a double NTF system. Top film and a bottom film.

 

[sherriberry]

wanted to ask your opinion fatman..

if a person hung a bunch of hps lights in a BIG flowering room, and had them all hanging vertical, and in cool tubes...

which do you think would be the better way to go, 600's or 1000's

ive heard both ways.

i think it makes more sense to use 2 600's instead of 1 1000, but... ive heard the 1000's make the bud much denser.

maybe with all those 600's, it would still be dense?

i can go either way, just trying to plan ahead now.

 

[fatman7574]

PersonallY I prefer many smaller over a few larger. The lighting will be moreeven in intensity for more of the plants with smaller lights. Plus unless your water cooling you still will need to maintain a greater distance between the plants and the lights if they receive to much light growth nearly entirely shuts down. The only advantage to the larger wattage is lower initial capiatal investment and the possibility of more intensity to reach deeper for growing taller plants. But that means water cooling to get the 1000 watt lights closed enough to use that extra intensity. It required water cooling usually to get a 1000 watt bulb as close to the plants as you can get the 600 wattt lights with air cooling. Water is much more efficient at collecting and transporting thermal energy than air. Vertical or horizontally hung the intensity issues are the same as are heat issues and plants distances. PAR drops off at the same rates horizontally or vertically from the bulbs.

 

[tea tree]

if you can swing the 1000s dude I just have to say that it that would be your most promising method of getting dense buds. Between the trees vertical sure yeilds a lot in a lot of grow ops around the net. I dont grow that way yet but I would like too. If you here 600s would do it for vert trees, then there is some evidence. People who use 1000s all get more dense buds. That is all I need to hear. Also verts without hoods are not so hard to cool as people think. I tried mine bare bulb and I have shit at how easy my 8 in fan yanks all the heat out of my 4x4x6 foot tent. Vert for flower is a long held to be nice scheme.

 

[fatman7574]

if you can swing the 1000s dude I just have to say that it that would be your most promising method of getting dense buds. Between the trees vertical sure yeilds a lot in a lot of grow ops around the net. I dont grow that way yet but I would like too. If you here 600s would do it for vert trees, then there is some evidence. People who use 1000s all get more dense buds. That is all I need to hear. Also verts without hoods are not so hard to cool as people think. I tried mine bare bulb and I have shit at how easy my 8 in fan yanks all the heat out of my 4x4x6 foot tent. Vert for flower is a long held to be nice scheme.

It does not matter what wattage the bulbs aree it matter the PAR deliver at the site being lit. Learn a bit be for you talk trash. Ten 400 watt lights hung vertically in an 8 foot square room will provide more even PAR through out the room, higher yield and nearly all tight buds. Four 1000 watt bulbs hung vertically in the same sized room will provide very, very uneven PAR, a lower over all yield and a much smaller percentage of tight buds. Get a quantum meters and run some test grows and learn how wrong your present opinion is.

 

[sherriberry]

k, so i got it all hooked up tonight for pressure and flow testing...

and... not much pressure or flow

i have a couple leaks in the pvc... that im going to cement shut tomorrow... so maybe thats it?

but, if not, then the only other leaks could be around the sprayers and the pvc itself...

im running the pump you suggested, and running 25 sprayers with it.

right now there is just a small stream coming out of each one... not really a mist so much.

other possibility is that i did not prime the pump properly?

im going to check a few things tomorrow... otherwise i might end up using the black or white hose and the barbed sprayers...

 

[fatman7574]

If you can drop down to using half the sprayers and see what happens. Leaks make a huge difference as they mean reduced pressure throught out the system. I have had a few pumps that have not put out the pressure they should. I have also had pumps that did not perform well if they had too few sprayers. The pumpsa re made to operate aginst resistance. If they do not have the resistance the out let pressure is poor. If nothing else you would get one hell of a good spray from the standard sprayers in comparison th the low pressure pumps, but the volume will be excessive with the standard sprayers. Without putting a pressure gauge temporarily on the manifold line it is pretty hard to second guess what is going on though. Did you buy the 0.75 or the 1.0 gph misters?

 

[sherriberry]

1 gal per hour, threaded

ill mess with it tomorrow some more... the way i had the feed line to the pump... wasnt the best... it was a temporary rubber hose before i can make it back to lowes to buy some more fittings...

anyway.. i think its possible the pump has SOME air in it... or the feed line...

the leaks are also a must fix anyway... so we will see.

 

[sherriberry]

if i end up using the rubber hose isntead...

you think the threaded ones can be salvaged for the job?

im wondering if my pvc cement wouldnt keep them secure in the hose without the barbs

 

[repvip]

Is it better to have a larger manifold, with smaller diameter pipes running from that? I'm anticipating running into the same problem sherri were you still using 3/4" pvc?

What diameter pvc would you run fatman? cpvc is attractive because you can get down to 1/4" and 3/8" OD. I haven't been able to connect them without leaks yet, but John Guest fittings should solve that (expensive, but the special crimping tool itself is an arm and a leg anyway).

 

[sherriberry]

also... where do i get a "manifold"?

ive seen some brass ones on ebay, but i have no clue if they are the right size fittings?

also, how do you kill spider mites?

ive looked for neam oil all over, and cant find it anywhere... and using other shit that says it kills them... but here we are and i still have a mild case of them.

 

[sherriberry]

im running a 3/4 inch pvc for all the main plumbing, and then T'ing off at each post, and each post has a 1/2 pvc pipe inside it that dead ends at the top of the post...

each of these 1/2 pvc's have 5 sprayers each.

i have 5 posts.

25 total sprayers.

posts are connected by main 3/4 inch pvc line.

 

[sherriberry]

my vegged plants are huge, and still in 18/6 light

they are smothering eachother in my nft table.. they are all past 2 ft tall, and my setup, i cant raise my light anymore, and they are up against the glass of my coolsun plants are probably 6 or more weeks old

then ive got 100 more clones that are about a foot tall now... which should have been in the table over a week ago... but they are still in tubs. plants are probably 4 or more weeks old.

i need a flower room

 

[repvip]

also... where do i get a "manifold"?

ive seen some brass ones on ebay, but i have no clue if they are the right size fittings?

also, how do you kill spider mites?

ive looked for neam oil all over, and cant find it anywhere... and using other shit that says it kills them... but here we are and i still have a mild case of them.

ick sorry. fatman will probably beat me with a better answer the manifold I was referring to was homemade from the pump, then feeding the sprayer lines. I'm not good with visualising flow rates and how it divides up...

spider mites are a bitch, but only because the eggs aren't killed like the adults, then they hatch in 5 days.. so you need to treat once, then again in 5 days. Do that at least twice, three times if it's really bad or you feel it's necessary.

Neam oil is ok stuff. Home improvement stores have the bactericidal/insecticidal soap, and other "spectracide" type products for plant pests, they may even have an organic one. Find one that kills spider mites. I have had good luck following the package directions, mixing up a 5 gal bucket, and a second bucket as a plaint water rinse. If you had the neem oil, you would mix some of that with some antibacterial soap in a sprayer. You can make a bucket solution for a dip too, but the pressure sprayer will knock off most adult mites. Then you can dip in the insecticide solution, and give her a rinse. If the plants are big, you can omit the rinse. Smaller plants and clones--definitely give a rinse.

Hopefully your roots aren't grown together.. can easily pluck a plant out, spray it off into a garbage, dip it and go. If you can't do the easy dip method you will be stuck using a sprayer and making a huge mess.

As you know, mites like to live on the underside of leaves. You might call it excessive, but wherever I have seen a mite (when I have had them before, with dirt) I cut off the whole leaf. Fuck it. It's a challenge just to get rid of these bastards.. I don't want any eggs hanging around.

They also have foggers and chemical sprays that you can get. BTW my cat was the culprit one time--spreaded mites like wildfire pretty randomly--was so pissed.

 

[sherriberry]

tomorrow i am going to glue or cement the sprayers into the pvc pipe...

i have pvc cement, which is this yellowish green shit... but it dries very thin...

so, im looking for another option...

superglue?

if anyone has any ideas on a thicker drying glue that would fill in any leak gaps... let me know

 

[fatman7574]

As they are two different types of plastics thermal glues really would not work well. A thermal glue actually melts the plastics and they are supposed to mix and become one. However they are entirely different types of plastic so they do not mix. An epoxy glue would work better.

For the mites buy some Buhach powder. http://www.buhach.com/ It is sold online http://www.solutions.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&itemID=314 and is also sold in sporting goods stores and outdoor and garden centers. It is burnt as a smudge. There are no flames, it just smolders. It's active ingrediants are Pyrethrins. Mixed esters of (+)-trans-chrysanthemic acid and (+)-pyrethroic acid. i.e. a specific type of Chrysanthemum flowers petals ground up. A teaspoon or so is simply placed in/on a non flamable surface like an empty tuna fish can and lit with a match. Seal the room. Do this every few days until no mites return. It can be used up until harvest. It is non harmful to people and is used in a lot in any places for mosquito control. It is considered a must have for life in Alaska.

 

[repvip]

Wanted to post a quick follow-up about some earlier posts I made in this thread concerning continuous NFT versus intermittent (both without sprayers) and Aero/NFT I was testing each method, somewhat, with similar units made from fence posts. Don't want anyone getting led astray.

As expected, the unit with sprayers, Aero/NFT, is working the best. That unit is under LEDs at the moment and just under 2 weeks.

I was surprised about continuous NFT versus intermittent. The continuous is properly set up with a thin film, very small water pump, roots look good considering. This unit is the middle one. Under the metal halide. This one is just under 4 weeks.

The intermittent NFT without sprayers is far left under the HPS and is working least well out of all 3. Roots don't look very nice. However, buds look great. This one is just over 6 weeks.

Take home message: Sprayers! They are as easy or easier than traditional NFT and work better.

Next experiment: medium pressure misters/foggers using demand/delivery water pumps.

 

[repvip]

As they are two different types of plastics thermal glues really would not work well. A thermal glue actually melts the plastics and they are supposed to mix and become one. However they are entirely different types of plastic so they do not mix. An epoxy glue would work better.

For the mites buy some Buhach powder. http://www.buhach.com/ It is sold online http://www.solutions.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&itemID=314 and is also sold in sporting goods stores and outdoor and garden centers. It is burnt as a smudge. There are no flames, it just smolders. It's active ingrediants are Pyrethrins. Mixed esters of (+)-trans-chrysanthemic acid and (+)-pyrethroic acid. i.e. a specific type of Chrysanthemum flowers petals ground up. A teaspoon or so is simply placed in/on a non flamable surface like an empty tuna fish can and lit with a match. Seal the room. Do this every few days until no mites return. It can be used up until harvest. It is non harmful to people and is used in a lot in any places for mosquito control. It is considered a must have for life in Alaska.

Geez! Can't believe I haven't heard of this before. I've never seen it in the home improvement stores around here... Spider mites are a thing of the past, now, but every spring those dang ants this will be a lot easier to apply in my situation. Or.. every situation probably. Thanks fatman.

 

[fatman7574]

The pressure bias pump needs to be working against head pressure to develp pressure. The easiest way to see that there is that g head pressure is to use small tubing before every nozzle. Consider the genral formula: Flow = velocity * Area. so Velocity = Flow / area, by decraesing the area (diameter of the pipe/tubes interior) you thereby increase the velocity and therefore the pressure. If your manifold is a larger pipe (increses area) the velocity (therefore pressure) will be lower. With just 25 spray heads you only need to flow at most 25 gph from a 270 gph pump. So you need to decrease the tubing/pipe isze to incrase velocity rather than sure maximium flow. The pump comes with a 3/4" discharge so as to pump up to 270 gph. That means a pipe/tubing area of 0.442 square inches to move 270 gallons per hour as you need to only move roughly one tenth of that amount of water you theoretically need a pipe/tubing of only o.24 inches interior diameter to handle the entire flow. By using a large pipe with the sprayers stuck straight into the pipe you haveb created a high flow low velocity/pressure system. This means the pressure is to low for the sprayers. Using the lengths of small tubing increases the velocity/pressure at the spray heads. It also decreases flow but you need very little flow. I use a simple 0 to 30 psi pressure gage on all my systems to see that the pressure is just below the pumps max of 24 psi. http://cgi.ebay.com/SMALL-PRESSURE-air-GAUGE-GAGE-0-30-psi-NEW_W0QQitemZ400092389413QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPneumatic_Hydraulic_Valves_Parts?hash=item5d275d6025