Advanced Stealth Hydro Bubbeponics Thread

[Mr.Bob Saget]

I attached some pictures. I really want to diagnose what my plants are telling me. I still think that it is a lack of Mag, but really need some input.

Using Fox Farm Nutes (Full line), but only in week 1 feeding. EC of 1.6-1.8.

Res temp is 71-72, air temp is 78-82, lights are 24/7.

I have Cal-Mag on hand, I added 3 tsp to the 6 gallon res last night.

I really want to pull the pump put of the tank, as i think the magnetic driven pump pulls heavy metals out of the solution faster then it could be.

 

[MostlyCrazy]

You plants are perfectly healthy. Small spots like that are nothing to be concerned about. What's the humidity in the room? I'd mist them with a little ph'd water every once in awhile.

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

You plants are perfectly healthy. Small spots like that are nothing to be concerned about. What's the humidity in the room? I'd mist them with a little ph'd water every once in awhile.

Thanks MC, the humidity is low, only 35%, air is dry, winter time.

I would like to think that everything is ok, but this is the first grow with good seeds, and the last couple of grows with bag seed have started down this path, using the same nutes.

From the angle of the pics, you cant tell all that well, but the leafs seems to be curling up at the leaf tips. The brow on the leaf seemed to get a little worse in the last 10 hours.

I don't do a res change until the end of next week..after week 2 nute schedule.

Currently:
PH-6.0
EC-1.75
Temp- 78-81
400 HPS 24/7

Here is a couple more pics.

 

[Roseman]

All together it cost $275 The unit was 250 and the plumbing installation kit was 25.

I love the Avatar, Jonny!

 

[JonnyBtreed]

Thanks MC, the humidity is low, only 35%, air is dry, winter time.

I would like to think that everything is ok, but this is the first grow with good seeds, and the last couple of grows with bag seed have started down this path, using the same nutes.

From the angle of the pics, you cant tell all that well, but the leafs seems to be curling up at the leaf tips. The brow on the leaf seemed to get a little worse in the last 10 hours.

I don't do a res change until the end of next week..after week 2 nute schedule.

Currently:
PH-6.0
EC-1.75
Temp- 78-81
400 HPS 24/7

Here is a couple more pics.

If your getting spotting and it's starting to get worse I would certainly suggest doing a res change more often. I do mine every week. Whenever i let it slide for more than a week I start seeing the signs of certain deficiencies. Then I do a res change and all is fine.

 

[MostlyCrazy]

Think at most it's a humidity problem. Mist them and put some wet towels around the top of the res/base of the plants to help them out The spots may be from a very slight overnute so next time you add water just add ph'd water. Some strains like high nutes and some like it mild. The younger they are the milder they usually like it.

 

[FryingPanFlyer]

If your getting spotting and it's starting to get worse I would certainly suggest doing a res change more often. I do mine every week. Whenever i let it slide for more than a week I start seeing the signs of certain deficiencies. Then I do a res change and all is fine.

I agree with the res change. What have you got to lose, the nutes left in the current res water, no big deal. I would suggest change the res, it can't hurt.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I love the Avatar, Jonny!

ha thanks...my add been kickin up. Gotta change it up

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

My problem seems to be getting worse on that one plant. It seems to be the very bottom fan leaf, so the oldest fan leaf. I will check in another 12 hours and take a pic. I added 1 gallon of fresh water today, added a small amount of nutes according to the feeding schedule ratio, to bring the EC to 1.6, Ph is 5.8.

I also mist the plants with Ph 6.0 water a couple of times.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

ok.... but you didn't change the res?

Certain nutrients get used up quicker then others. If your consistently letting that particular nutrient get deficient to the plant then your going to start seeing signs of deficiency... Like spots. I'm guessing a slight potassium deficiency. Adding a fractional amount of nutrients is NOT going to be sufficient to correct a deficiency. I STRONGLY suggest a COMPLETE res change and one every week from now on. Six gallons isn't enough nutrient to last two weeks. Plus you letting certain nutrients build up and create toxicity issues, while others are getting locked out and creating deficiencies.

I'd certainly correct this problem before it drastically stunts your growth

 

[LonghornFan]

Agree here, I do a res change no matter what every 7 days. I did one this week on day 4, then again on day 7. If the plants are taking in alot of water in a day or two, I do a res change then. Res changes can never hurt. Would you like a fresh glass of water every day? Or one that has been sitting for a few days? Just sayin...

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

ok.... but you didn't change the res?

Certain nutrients get used up quicker then others. If your consistently letting that particular nutrient get deficient to the plant then your going to start seeing signs of deficiency... Like spots. I'm guessing a slight potassium deficiency. Adding a fractional amount of nutrients is NOT going to be sufficient to correct a deficiency. I STRONGLY suggest a COMPLETE res change and one every week from now on. Six gallons isn't enough nutrient to last two weeks. Plus you letting certain nutrients build up and create toxicity issues, while others are getting locked out and creating deficiencies.

I'd certainly correct this problem before it drastically stunts your growth

No have not done a reservoir change yet. I will do it next if I can not correct the problem by tomorrow. I took some more pictures, this is 24 hours since the last pictures. You can see how it seems to only be one plant that is affected. The discoloring became much worse, the leaf became dry, and when I bent it, it cracked the leaf. It is either a over nute problem, or a lack of nutes, and I'm starting to go with lack of nutes.

The other plants seem to look good, the EC is at 1.58, and the Ph is 6.2.

I have not wanted to do a res change because I wanted to follow the Fox Farm feeding schedule. You can see how after week three they want a res change.

If you look at the schedule you can see how doing a res change every week, would give you incorrect dosages of certain nutes for that particular week.(I'm sure I will need to explain that better).
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

This to me still looks be a Mag deficiency, this is what i found in the plant problems forum. I have read other people using Fox Farm that have suffered Mag deficiency's, does anyone agree with me? I have had this problem in my prior couple attempts, but never tried to compensate with Cal/Mag, I have in fact done a res change every week in prior grows, and still had the problem, that is why I jumped on this soon as I seen leaf color change, I kind of expected it. I really want to get my pump out of the tank, but I think I will wait one more week.


I know I have read other threads of guys saying they add Cal/Mag to the res, but I cant recall at what dosage. I think I'm going to add a couple TSP to the reservoir now. I will bring the EC up a little, I think the plants are large enough to handle a little more.

I'm using a Hanna continuous PH/EC/PPM/Temp meter, so I know exactly where my EC is.

Magnesium is a component of the chlorophyll molecule and serves as a cofactor in most enzymes.
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency.
Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in Figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

This to me still looks be a Mag deficiency, this is what i found in the plant problems forum. I have read other people using Fox Farm that have suffered Mag deficiency's, does anyone agree with me? I have had this problem in my prior couple attempts, but never tried to compensate with Cal/Mag, I have in fact done a res change every week in prior grows, and still had the problem, that is why I jumped on this soon as I seen leaf color change, I kind of expected it. I really want to get my pump out of the tank, but I think I will wait one more week.


I know I have read other threads of guys saying they add Cal/Mag to the res, but I cant recall at what dosage. I think I'm going to add a couple TSP to the reservoir now. I will bring the EC up a little, I think the plants are large enough to handle a little more.

I'm using a Hanna continuous PH/EC/PPM/Temp meter, so I know exactly where my EC is.

Magnesium is a component of the chlorophyll molecule and serves as a cofactor in most enzymes.
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency.
Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in Figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

i don't know man, I don't agree with about 2/3 of that.

I have NEVER seen a plant go mag deficient until the onset of flowering. EVER...
Potassium on the other hand is used readily by the plant throughout veg.
Never used FoxFarm... but, I still think you should change the nutes once a week

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

i don't know man, I don't agree with about 2/3 of that.

I have NEVER seen a plant go mag deficient until the onset of flowering. EVER...
Potassium on the other hand is used readily by the plant throughout veg.
Never used FoxFarm... but, I still think you should change the nutes once a week

Johnny you could be right, I don't know, that's why I'm here asking for input. It appears that on another plant, the very first fan leaf is starting to show some sign of discoloration, the leaf is starting to look light(er) green. I have had the lights on 24/7 since the rooted, and broke ground. I'm going to change the lights to 18/6, I added 4 tsp of Cal/Mag to bring the EC to a 1.8, Ph is 6.12, res temp is 71. I wills see if anything changes in another 12 hours. Here is what I found on Potassium deficiency:
Potassium (K)

Potassium is involved in maintaining the water status of the plant and the tugor pressure of it's cells and the opening and closing of the stomata. Potassium is required in the accumulation and translocation of carbohydrates. Lack of potassium will reduce yield and quality.
Potassium deficiency (K).
Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken, the plant may also stretch. The plant will become susceptible to disease and toxicity. In addition to appearing to look like iron deficiency, the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die.
Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

Johnny you could be right, I don't know, that's why I'm here asking for input. It appears that on another plant, the very first fan leaf is starting to show some sign of discoloration, the leaf is starting to look light(er) green. I have had the lights on 24/7 since the rooted, and broke ground. I'm going to change the lights to 18/6, I added 4 tsp of Cal/Mag to bring the EC to a 1.8, Ph is 6.12, res temp is 71. I wills see if anything changes in another 12 hours. Here is what I found on Potassium deficiency:
Potassium (K)

Potassium is involved in maintaining the water status of the plant and the tugor pressure of it's cells and the opening and closing of the stomata. Potassium is required in the accumulation and translocation of carbohydrates. Lack of potassium will reduce yield and quality.
Potassium deficiency (K).
Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken, the plant may also stretch. The plant will become susceptible to disease and toxicity. In addition to appearing to look like iron deficiency, the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die.
Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.

I'd say that's initially chlorotic in spots. But whatever man. Do your thing

 

[Roseman]

This to me still looks be a Mag deficiency, this is what i found in the plant problems forum. I have read other people using Fox Farm that have suffered Mag deficiency's, does anyone agree with me? I have had this problem in my prior couple attempts, but never tried to compensate with Cal/Mag, I have in fact done a res change every week in prior grows, and still had the problem, that is why I jumped on this soon as I seen leaf color change, I kind of expected it. I really want to get my pump out of the tank, but I think I will wait one more week.


I know I have read other threads of guys saying they add Cal/Mag to the res, but I cant recall at what dosage. I think I'm going to add a couple TSP to the reservoir now. I will bring the EC up a little, I think the plants are large enough to handle a little more.

I'm using a Hanna continuous PH/EC/PPM/Temp meter, so I know exactly where my EC is.

Magnesium is a component of the chlorophyll molecule and serves as a cofactor in most enzymes.
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency.
Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in Figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

I think all commercial nutes have everything needed and only deficiencies show up in the Flowering Cycle. just my humble opinion.

I see way too many new threads here asking
Do I have a mag deficiency?
and the answer is always NO.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I think all commercial nutes have everything needed and only deficiencies show up in the Flowering Cycle. just my humble opinion.

I see way too many new threads here asking
Do I have a mag deficiency?
and the answer is always NO.

right, but changing the nutes every two weeks I don't think he's getting enough of ANYTHING.....

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

I think all commercial nutes have everything needed and only deficiencies show up in the Flowering Cycle. just my humble opinion.

I see way too many new threads here asking
Do I have a mag deficiency?
and the answer is always NO.

I know..I know..I was really hoping that it wasn't, but it is some sort of deficiency.

I will do a res change tomorrow, if it doesn't get any better.

One more thing I didn't add, I'm using distilled water, and I emailed Fox Farm asking them about there feeding schedule, asking if it was based on a 0 EC water, I didn't get a reply. I have seen a feeding schedule from one company that based the EC and PPM numbers on like a 200 PPM water to start with...

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

right, but changing the nutes every two weeks I don't think he's getting enough of ANYTHING.....

Well I have added a couple of gallons of water over the two weeks. I think 3 gallon to be exact. Every time I have added the distilled water straight to the res, then check the EC with my Hana meeter (Continues reading so I can see the EC change). I then have added the appropriate nutes in the ratio shown on the schedule, so for instance 2 tsp of Grow Big, and 1 tbl of Big Bloom.

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf