Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks and Pointers

[Uncle Ben]

I've been using a half to 3/4 strength solution of Foxfarms Grow Big for soil which is 6-4-4. Is that too weak?

Too weak for what? You have to pair your fertilizer applications with the vigor and size of the plants. That's why I get a big laugh at these guys like AN trying to paint botany with the same brush using charts and stupid week by week application guides. It's a big farce. Sometimes I think guys like that don't know a damn thing about botany, only marketing. They seem to be a bunch of posers to me, while the unsuspecting noob plays along.

Naturally a small seedling or a plant very late in flowering is not going to REQUIRE the same amount of food as a large bushy plant still doing the stretch thang, packing on the cellulose/tissue.

 

[Bob Smith]

I remember someone online at one time(maybe here) posting the results of the FINAL YEILD from plants that were vegged for 24/0, 18/6, and 20/4.
The results were that the plants that had recieved 4 hours darkness out yielded the others followed by18/6. 24 hours light veg was the LOWEST yielding of the three. Im too lazy to search for it but those were the posted results. YMMV but I doubt it. I believe the plants will yeild more in the long run if given short rest periods of darkness during veg.

Hmmmmmmmmm, interesting............not sure if I buy it, but interesting nonetheless.

If I get a minute today I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.

 

[fanya]

To everyone saying that 24 hours of light is best try and see how many days you can go with no sleep before you crash. Everything in life requires rest, it's common sense imo.

 

[Bob Smith]

To everyone saying that 24 hours of light is best try and see how many days you can go with no sleep before you crash. Everything in life requires rest, it's common sense imo.

Tell that to sharks, fish, etc.

Lots of things never sleep, cuzzo.

Regardless, seems like everyone's got their own way, and I'm comfy with mine, so good luck to all.

 

[cowboylogic]

As with all of Bens threads. Great info. This quote to me is nothing less than brilliant. And if you already do not look at your grows in this manner, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" then you should. To often we look so far ahead to harvest time and big nugs we miss the little things along the way. Cultivation of cannabis, veggies or your house plants is like life. Its the little things that make the biggest impact, positive or negative, down the road. I think most try to 'Supercharge' their grows. Trying to push the plant past its genetic potential. When the best path to follow is the gentle, caring approach. We all to often, the grower, do far to much work. When in fact the plant should do most of the work. We just need to pay attention and give the plant what it needs, when it needs. Follow your plants. Do not expect your plants too follow you.
This said. Its repotting time. "Honey, where is the razorblade?" LOL I bet most of you would not hesitate to do this on a houseplant. But my precious girls!?!? Grow a pair and do it. Uncle Ben Rocks.............

 

[shrigpiece]

As with all of Bens threads. Great info. This quote to me is nothing less than brilliant. And if you already do not look at your grows in this manner, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" then you should. To often we look so far ahead to harvest time and big nugs we miss the little things along the way. Cultivation of cannabis, veggies or your house plants is like life. Its the little things that make the biggest impact, positive or negative, down the road. I think most try to 'Supercharge' their grows. Trying to push the plant past its genetic potential. When the best path to follow is the gentle, caring approach. We all to often, the grower, do far to much work. When in fact the plant should do most of the work. We just need to pay attention and give the plant what it needs, when it needs. Follow your plants. Do not expect your plants too follow you.

BRAVO rep+

 

[MikeyPeenz]

Uncle Ben, you are the man, this should be a sticky! great info for newbs!!! I followed your advice and feel much more comfortable after speaking with you!!

I know you have a topping post, but do you have one for lst?? maybe if you have some spare time can i pm you about an lst??
i know there are a few around, but like you said, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and I value yours!
Thanks again keep on truckin!

 

[Dr. Indica]

To everyone saying that 24 hours of light is best try and see how many days you can go with no sleep before you crash. Everything in life requires rest, it's common sense imo.

Show me a plant that grows faster under 24/0


If you have a year round veg. room, you would be costing yourself 2 months worth of growth at the end of one year. If you do not experience a " stall " or bleaching I see no need to shut the lights off, stretching occurs during dark periods, not something I personally want on my plants during veg. growth. I also saw mention of root development during dark periods, well they grow non-stop during the lighting cycle so I see no real advantage to this theory . There is also no study done that shows 24/0 being a better cycle than 24/7. So those of us that have experience and knowledge are having difficulty understanding why 24/0 is a better cycle when there is no evidence to support that theory. There has also been no follow up explanation as to why this is supposedly a better method, other than some kind of " secret " genetic processes that apparently occur. So without a proper explanation it's hard to understand why 24/0 is better than a 24/7 cycle, when the plant grows faster in the 24/7 cycle. I keep reading the thread waiting for a more detailed answer on the subject.

 

[Uncle Ben]

As with all of Bens threads. Great info. This quote to me is nothing less than brilliant. And if you already do not look at your grows in this manner, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" then you should. To often we look so far ahead to harvest time and big nugs we miss the little things along the way. Cultivation of cannabis, veggies or your house plants is like life. Its the little things that make the biggest impact, positive or negative, down the road. I think most try to 'Supercharge' their grows. Trying to push the plant past its genetic potential. When the best path to follow is the gentle, caring approach. We all to often, the grower, do far to much work. When in fact the plant should do most of the work. We just need to pay attention and give the plant what it needs, when it needs. Follow your plants. Do not expect your plants too follow you.
This said. Its repotting time. "Honey, where is the razorblade?" LOL I bet most of you would not hesitate to do this on a houseplant. But my precious girls!?!? Grow a pair and do it. Uncle Ben Rocks.............

Thanks, it's all about taking a rational and natural approach.

Uncle Ben, you are the man, this should be a sticky! great info for newbs!!! I followed your advice and feel much more comfortable after speaking with you!!

I know you have a topping post, but do you have one for lst??

Homie don't play that game.

Show me a plant that grows faster under 24/0

If you have a year round veg. room, you would be costing yourself 2 months worth of growth at the end of one year.

So what, not that I necessarily believe your premise. I sell my pot, but I do so at my own pace, and it's fast and furious by most standards.

If you do not experience a " stall " or bleaching I see no need to shut the lights off, stretching occurs during dark periods,

Stretching occurs due to hormonal processes which is a precursor to seed production. A light or dark cycle is not relevant.

not something I personally want on my plants during veg. growth. I also saw mention of root development during dark periods, well they grow non-stop during the lighting cycle so I see no real advantage to this theory

I doubt if you or I have done the experiments, but, I say it's not a theory, it's a fact that a rest period is natural and needed. Grab some books or links and research the processes that occur during the light and dark cycles of photosynthesis.

I submit to you that the dark cycle is as important as the light cycle.

There is also no study done that shows 24/0 being a better cycle than 24/7.

Huh? I'm talking a compromise of a 20/4 for veg.

UB

 

[Roseman]

Uncle Ben,

I try to read eveyrthing you post and skip the inbetween BS posts argueing with you.
(Like on that Lolipopping thread)

I am on my 8th indoor closet hydroponic grow, and I am experimenting with Nitrogen in the Flowering Cycle because of your posts.

I was using Bloom nutes with NO Nitrogen at all in them. I used them on 7 grows. I was told for the past 3 years that it ws natural for the plant's lower leaves to yellow and fall off during Flowring and I mistakenly accepted that as fact. HERD mentality.

What made me doubt it is when I grew outdoors in heavy fertilized patches many yers ago, heavy in manure and all kinds of nitrogen, none of the lower fan leaves yellowed and fell off then.

Then I read up on ADVANCED NUTRIENTS.
I was told by many growers that use them that they will balance the pH for you and you can toss the pH UP and the pH Down if you use Advanced Nutrients.
Sounded good to me, so I ordered the BLOOM, and they came in two one gallon jugs, labeled Part A and Part B. The instructions say to add them separately to the tank and make the ppm 800 to 900 per reservoir or 1.8 tablespoon per gallon of water.
That was simple enough.

I noticed that one container contained NO Nitrogen, and very high on Phosperous and very little Potassium.
The other container was High on Nitrogen, Low on Phosperous and High on Potassium.
Hmmmmm??? Nitrogen in Bloom Nutes????? That was rare to me.

They claim that ADVANCED NUTRIENTS is one of the very few nutrients sold and labeled that they are made especially for marijuana growing.

Hhhhhmmmm? Bloom Nutes High in Nitrogen??????

The container labeled High in Nitrogen looks like Liquid Karma, it is a brown liquid and not thin either. I decided to remain loyal to my SH pre-packaged nutes for this grow, but I wanted to try the ADVANCED NUTRIENTS, so I used them ONLY in my 5 gallon experimental bucket.

After two days, I noticed a couple of changes.
One, first thing I noticed is they started having a stronger skunk smell again, like when they were in the VEG cycle. A few days after I first started the BLOOM nutes , the strong smell diminshed. After adding the Advanced Nutrients with Nitrogen, the bad stink came back And strong too.
Two, secondly I noticed that the the lower third of the plant's leaves QUIT having dying off, falling off, yellowing leaves. I was averaging 3 or 4 leaves a day falling off per plant, and suddenly NONE fell off. They all quit yellowing and falling off.
Three, I noticed all kinds of new green leaves growing out of the flowers or bud sites.

Hhhhmmmm, had to be the Nitrogen!

So I spent almost an entire day googling and searching for info on adding Nitrogen during the Flowereing Cycle. VERY INTERESTING.
I ALSO LOOKED THROUGH 4 BOOKS. All I could find is advice saying DO NOT ADD VEG NUTES(Nitrogen) DURING THE BLOOM CYCLE, because of the affect on TASTE. There was no other reason NOT to do it.

So, I asked some expert growers.
You said that you always adds a small amount of Nitrogen nutes to the Bloom Cycle and none of your lower leaves yellow and fall off.
A nameless large outdoor commerical grower that I know told me he digs a giant hole and throws all the dirt away and fills the hole back up with an assortment of different soils, peat moss, all kinds of different manure and bat poop and all kinds of nitrogen. He said when his plants naturally go to 12/12, they never shed a lower leaf. He never adds any phosperous or anything else either. He grows those 15 to 20 foot tall trees too.
He said he does not flush them, how could he flush an outdoor tree in soil? And he says that he never gets any nitrogen-fertilizer taste in his buds either.

And in my asking around, many indoor hydro growers say their secret trick is to add a little Nitrogen during BLOOM to get larger plants and larger buds and a larger harvest.

So, on my other two tanks, when I added one gallon of water back, I added 1/6 packet of my regular VEG nutes. Now they are not shedding any leaves and the bud sites are rapidly filling in too.

And they are all stinking to high heaven.


I think most books and many experienced growers are wrong about this Nitrogen in Flowering Cycle and nee dto experiment with it to get larger yields..

And let me tell you two years ago, (I have pics) I was helping my X wife do a grow at her house, and her husband bought a book and wanted to lollipop her plants and she did. She averaged one and half oucnes of dried buds frome each plant, while I averaged 4, growing the same strain, in the same DWC system with the same lights.

Just because someone makes a name for a procedure , doesn't make it right.

 

[Uncle Ben]

As with all of Bens threads. Great info.

Thanks!

To often we look so far ahead to harvest time and big nugs we miss the little things along the way. Cultivation of cannabis, veggies or your house plants is like life. Its the little things that make the biggest impact, positive or negative, down the road.

Absolutely, well spoken. You'll often see me recommending folks NOT focus on flowering, bud production, at all but only concentrate on the mass production/maintenance of roots and leaves. End the end, those units are all that matters. So what do folks do the very unit that produces bud (leaves), they hit them with a food that does not support leaves and of course we all know what the end result is.

Paradigms and comfort zones are hard to work around sometimes.

I think most try to 'Supercharge' their grows. Trying to push the plant past its genetic potential. When the best path to follow is the gentle, caring approach. We all to often, the grower, do far to much work.

You got it. What's interesting is the poor sap that drops a thou on all kinds of equipment, foods, snake oils, gimmicks and the "latest and greatest" and still ends up with crap.

When in fact the plant should do most of the work. We just need to pay attention and give the plant what it needs, when it needs. Follow your plants. Do not expect your plants too follow you.
This said. Its repotting time. "Honey, where is the razorblade?" LOL I bet most of you would not hesitate to do this on a houseplant. But my precious girls!?!? Grow a pair and do it. Uncle Ben Rocks.............

Happy cutting lol.

 

[The Warlord]

I think I may try the same thing with a little more N in bloom. I have never liked the way the plants look late in flower but like a sheeple I was always following directions. good info in this thread (I hope)!

Thanks guys!

 

[Uncle Ben]

Uncle Ben, you are the man, this should be a sticky! great info for newbs!!! I followed your advice and feel much more comfortable after speaking with you!!

I know you have a topping post, but do you have one for lst?? maybe if you have some spare time can i pm you about an lst??
i know there are a few around, but like you said, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and I value yours!
Thanks again keep on truckin!

Gracias amigo. Homie don't do lst. I have no feelings about it one way or the other.

Uncle Ben,

I try to read eveyrthing you post and skip the inbetween BS posts argueing with you.
(Like on that Lolipopping thread)

Super and while you're here I saw your post in my visitors message window. For some strange reason I can not respond. I'm linked back to my profile. I think you're a mod, perhaps you have a clue.

I am on my 8th indoor closet hydroponic grow, and I am experimenting with Nitrogen in the Flowering Cycle because of your posts. I was using Bloom nutes with NO Nitrogen at all in them.

Ouch!

I used them on 7 grows. I was told for the past 3 years that it ws natural for the plant's lower leaves to yellow and fall off during Flowring and I mistakenly accepted that as fact. HERD mentality.

Yeah, it's total bullshit, another lame forum paradigm that just won't die. Let me tell ya what is really going on. Folks who parrot that paradigm that it's natural for cannabis to lose most or all of its leaves, especially fan leaves, are only covering their ass. Fact is they are clueless on how to retain them because they don't bother to understand what makes a plant tick. Yeah, you'll lose some leaves, the plant is coming to the end of its life, but not 60% or so like on most grows, sheesh! Page 2 - the vendors who sell "cannabis specific" nutes know this, and sell what they think The Herd will buy. it's all about the money. I really have no problem with hydro vendors making money, but let's not screw the naive and unsuspecting noob with a bunch of hawking and hype while doing it!

What made me doubt it is when I grew outdoors in heavy fertilized patches many yers ago, heavy in manure and all kinds of nitrogen, none of the lower fan leaves yellowed and fell off then.

Dat's write.

Then I read up on ADVANCED NUTRIENTS. I was told by many growers that use them that they will balance the pH for you and you can toss the pH UP and the pH Down if you use Advanced Nutrients.

Miracle claims=bullshit. Can't have it both ways. pH adustments is a chemical and ion thingie.

Sounded good to me, so I ordered the BLOOM, and they came in two one gallon jugs, labeled Part A and Part B. The instructions say to add them separately to the tank and make the ppm 800 to 900 per reservoir or 1.8 tablespoon per gallon of water.

That was simple enough.

I noticed that one container contained NO Nitrogen, and very high on Phosperous and very little Potassium.

The other container was High on Nitrogen, Low on Phosperous and High on Potassium.
Hmmmmm??? Nitrogen in Bloom Nutes????? That was rare to me.

They claim that ADVANCED NUTRIENTS is one of the very few nutrients sold and labeled that they are made especially for marijuana growing.

Hhhhhmmmm? Bloom Nutes High in Nitrogen??????

Hey, how about Grow Foods with little N and alot of K? It's laughable.

The container labeled High in Nitrogen looks like Liquid Karma, it is a brown liquid and not thin either. I decided to remain loyal to my SH pre-packaged nutes for this grow, but I wanted to try the ADVANCED NUTRIENTS, so I used them ONLY in my 5 gallon experimental bucket.

After two days, I noticed a couple of changes.
One, first thing I noticed is they started having a stronger skunk smell again, like when they were in the VEG cycle. A few days after I first started the BLOOM nutes , the strong smell diminshed. After adding the Advanced Nutrients with Nitrogen, the bad stink came back And strong too.
Two, secondly I noticed that the the lower third of the plant's leaves QUIT having dying off, falling off, yellowing leaves. I was averaging 3 or 4 leaves a day falling off per plant, and suddenly NONE fell off. They all quit yellowing and falling off.
Three, I noticed all kinds of new green leaves growing out of the flowers or bud sites.

Hhhhmmmm, had to be the Nitrogen!

Bingo! Good on ya for doing what you need to do for your garden and stepping out of the box. Nice to be empowered and shake off the hocus pocus, eh?

So I spent almost an entire day googling and searching for info on adding Nitrogen during the Flowereing Cycle. VERY INTERESTING.

I ALSO LOOKED THROUGH 4 BOOKS. All I could find is advice saying DO NOT ADD VEG NUTES(Nitrogen) DURING THE BLOOM CYCLE, because of the affect on TASTE. There was no other reason NOT to do it.

Ahhhhh yes. It's all about taste lol.

So, I asked some expert growers.

You said that you always adds a small amount of Nitrogen nutes to the Bloom Cycle and none of your lower leaves yellow and fall off.
A nameless large outdoor commerical grower that I know told me he digs a giant hole and throws all the dirt away and fills the hole back up with an assortment of different soils, peat moss, all kinds of different manure and bat poop and all kinds of nitrogen. He said when his plants naturally go to 12/12, they never shed a lower leaf. He never adds any phosperous or anything else either. He grows those 15 to 20 foot tall trees too.
He said he does not flush them, how could he flush an outdoor tree in soil? And he says that he never gets any nitrogen-fertilizer taste in his buds either.

He and i sing from the same sheet of music. I'm not sure what Nitrogen or chlorophyll tastes like, but you sure read alot about it.

And in my asking around, many indoor hydro growers say their secret trick is to add a little Nitrogen during BLOOM to get larger plants and larger buds and a larger harvest.

Of course. N is THE building block of cellulose.

So, on my other two tanks, when I added one gallon of water back, I added 1/6 packet of my regular VEG nutes. Now they are not shedding any leaves and the bud sites are rapidly filling in too.

And they are all stinking to high heaven.

Can't argue with success! I don't know about you, but my plants can't read haha.

I think most books and many experienced growers are wrong about this Nitrogen in Flowering Cycle and nee dto experiment with it to get larger yields..

And let me tell you two years ago, (I have pics) I was helping my X wife do a grow at her house, and her husband bought a book and wanted to lollipop her plants and she did. She averaged one and half oucnes of dried buds frome each plant, while I averaged 4, growing the same strain, in the same DWC system with the same lights.

Just because someone makes a name for a procedure, doesn't make it right.

Yep. Let them learn the hard way. I try.

Same goes with naming mutts to sell seeds. The furniture hasn't really changed in 40 years, just keeps getting moved around the room.

Great insight and glad you've become a master gardener!

Uncle Ben

P.S. - weird quotes must have to do with the different font sizes. I tried to correct to no avail.

 

[Katatawnic]

From Jack's Classic Dynamic Duo page:

Feed Your Plants Every 10-14 Days--Basically Every Other Week
Your plants need food just like you do! To grow vigorously, they need to be fed and watered cosistently with a high quality plant food--Jack's Classic®.

Alternate Feedings
Start with Blossom Booster 10-30-20 as you water in your plants to develop a vigorous, prolific root system. After a week, feed your plants with All Purpose 20-20-20 to increase their size and keep the leaves green and healthy. Continue to alternate feedings every two weeks to keep your plants blooming and showing bright, beautiful colors.

Try "The Dynamic Duo" in Combination
Instead of alternating products, try All Purpose and Blossom Booster in combination! In a typical TWO-gallon watering can, add 1 TBL. of All Purpose and 1 TBL. of Blossom Booster.

I don't have Jack's Classic nutrients yet, although I'm planning on getting them soon, as I like the higher N they show. (They're also not ridiculously priced, which is a big plus!) But I could still try the idea behind the advice in the meantime.

So what were the results? Greener foliage, and more of it. If my plants' leaves are healthier, then it stands to reason that the buds will be, too. If not in quantity, then at least in quality.

Thing is, I'd thought sooner about combining veg and bloom specific nutrients but, like everyone else, kept reading labels and forum posts both saying to never use the two together. Of course I didn't want to hurt my plants, so I didn't do it. Once I read that on the Jack's Classic site, however, I decided it can't hurt... I was already getting a lot more yellowing leaves than I wanted.

I'm so glad I decided to go with what common sense dictated to me (albeit not until I saw it confirmed elsewhere, LOL), instead of what I'm told not to do because the plants don't "want" very much N during the flowering cycle... apparently mine wanted more N, because that's exactly what made them perk up and show some real thrive. I think I had a total of four yellow/dead leaves on the indica I harvested last week... my first harvest too, so not too shabby!

I can't count how many posts I've seen from experienced growers saying that a plant is done and ready to harvest when it looks like it's dying... because it is. Well DUH, it's dying when it's not being fed properly!

If you grow and cure properly, then I would think that there shouldn't be a "bad taste" to your buds. There certainly is no "bad taste" nor harshness to what I've harvested so far, and I've been combining veg & bloom nutrients for about the last 2/3 of the flowering cycle of my first grow. It's only been curing for a week, and yet it's got a great taste and zero harshness... well, smoke is harsh, but you know what I mean. I also didn't flush.

A friend of mine that also grows was over this afternoon, and we were discussing nutrients and lighting, etc. He and I are on the same page... there is definitely such a thing as "too much" light, and fertilizing too much, and giving the wrong nutrients for the wrong reasons, etc. Basically, that we not only "over love" our plants like worried & over-protective parents, but furthermore than we get a huge "God complex" and think that we can force them to do what they can't... or even if they "can" do this or that, it's not worth all the stress put on them in the process. He's got huge, luscious, beautifully green trees with tremendous buds in his backyard to show that less is more.

 

[Mark5:9]

Uncle Ben,

I try to read eveyrthing you post and skip the inbetween BS posts argueing with you.
(Like on that Lolipopping thread)

I am on my 8th indoor closet hydroponic grow, and I am experimenting with Nitrogen in the Flowering Cycle because of your posts.

I was using Bloom nutes with NO Nitrogen at all in them. I used them on 7 grows. I was told for the past 3 years that it ws natural for the plant's lower leaves to yellow and fall off during Flowring and I mistakenly accepted that as fact. HERD mentality.

What made me doubt it is when I grew outdoors in heavy fertilized patches many yers ago, heavy in manure and all kinds of nitrogen, none of the lower fan leaves yellowed and fell off then.

Then I read up on ADVANCED NUTRIENTS.
I was told by many growers that use them that they will balance the pH for you and you can toss the pH UP and the pH Down if you use Advanced Nutrients.
Sounded good to me, so I ordered the BLOOM, and they came in two one gallon jugs, labeled Part A and Part B. The instructions say to add them separately to the tank and make the ppm 800 to 900 per reservoir or 1.8 tablespoon per gallon of water.
That was simple enough.

I noticed that one container contained NO Nitrogen, and very high on Phosperous and very little Potassium.
The other container was High on Nitrogen, Low on Phosperous and High on Potassium.
Hmmmmm??? Nitrogen in Bloom Nutes????? That was rare to me.

They claim that ADVANCED NUTRIENTS is one of the very few nutrients sold and labeled that they are made especially for marijuana growing.

Hhhhhmmmm? Bloom Nutes High in Nitrogen??????

The container labeled High in Nitrogen looks like Liquid Karma, it is a brown liquid and not thin either. I decided to remain loyal to my SH pre-packaged nutes for this grow, but I wanted to try the ADVANCED NUTRIENTS, so I used them ONLY in my 5 gallon experimental bucket.

After two days, I noticed a couple of changes.
One, first thing I noticed is they started having a stronger skunk smell again, like when they were in the VEG cycle. A few days after I first started the BLOOM nutes , the strong smell diminshed. After adding the Advanced Nutrients with Nitrogen, the bad stink came back And strong too.
Two, secondly I noticed that the the lower third of the plant's leaves QUIT having dying off, falling off, yellowing leaves. I was averaging 3 or 4 leaves a day falling off per plant, and suddenly NONE fell off. They all quit yellowing and falling off.
Three, I noticed all kinds of new green leaves growing out of the flowers or bud sites.

Hhhhmmmm, had to be the Nitrogen!

So I spent almost an entire day googling and searching for info on adding Nitrogen during the Flowereing Cycle. VERY INTERESTING.
I ALSO LOOKED THROUGH 4 BOOKS. All I could find is advice saying DO NOT ADD VEG NUTES(Nitrogen) DURING THE BLOOM CYCLE, because of the affect on TASTE. There was no other reason NOT to do it.

So, I asked some expert growers.
You said that you always adds a small amount of Nitrogen nutes to the Bloom Cycle and none of your lower leaves yellow and fall off.
A nameless large outdoor commerical grower that I know told me he digs a giant hole and throws all the dirt away and fills the hole back up with an assortment of different soils, peat moss, all kinds of different manure and bat poop and all kinds of nitrogen. He said when his plants naturally go to 12/12, they never shed a lower leaf. He never adds any phosperous or anything else either. He grows those 15 to 20 foot tall trees too.
He said he does not flush them, how could he flush an outdoor tree in soil? And he says that he never gets any nitrogen-fertilizer taste in his buds either.

And in my asking around, many indoor hydro growers say their secret trick is to add a little Nitrogen during BLOOM to get larger plants and larger buds and a larger harvest.

So, on my other two tanks, when I added one gallon of water back, I added 1/6 packet of my regular VEG nutes. Now they are not shedding any leaves and the bud sites are rapidly filling in too.

And they are all stinking to high heaven.


I think most books and many experienced growers are wrong about this Nitrogen in Flowering Cycle and nee dto experiment with it to get larger yields..

And let me tell you two years ago, (I have pics) I was helping my X wife do a grow at her house, and her husband bought a book and wanted to lollipop her plants and she did. She averaged one and half oucnes of dried buds frome each plant, while I averaged 4, growing the same strain, in the same DWC system with the same lights.

Just because someone makes a name for a procedure , doesn't make it right.

Don't get too caught up in numbers on the bottle. You have to think about what the plant sees.

Those numbers are (basically) the elemental weight in the bottle. 20-20-20 is 20% by weight N and so on. Then depending on your mixing instructions it's diluted to what you need.

20-20-20 at 1tsp per gallon is the same as 10-10-10 at 2tsp per gallon. Get what I'm say'n here?

So when you see what you think might be a high N food you have to keep mind that there is a ratio to P and K and that they are diluted for your plants.

Let's look at Jack's thing.

10-30-20

Now some might see that as a large dose of N but if you really look at it, it's just a ratio of 1 part N - 3 parts P - 2 parts K

So, you might see

3-9-6
6-18-12

it's all the same as long as the mix is ajusted to the ratio.

N in flower is not bad but if you use a grow food in flower you will have smaller buds and they will take forever to ripen.

Do it and you'll see.

Also, if you were using plant food that had 0 nitrogen then you were most likely misusing the product as I'm 99% sure that it was a bloom booster and not a bloom food. I don't know them all but in 18+ years of growing I've never seen one, well maybe by foxfarm but that's another story, that had 0 N and was a stand alone.

One other thing.. What Advacend food were you using that came as an A+B but one bottle had 0 N? Cause I know it wasn't Sensi Bloom or any other Advanced product I know of..

And for those looking for Jacks and can't find it try looking for Supernatural Terra Bloom. It's just about the same NPK (11-31-15). I use it and like it.

 

[Uncle Ben]

From Jack's Classic Dynamic Duo page:

I don't have Jack's Classic nutrients yet, although I'm planning on getting them soon, as I like the higher N they show. (They're also not ridiculously priced, which is a big plus!) But I could still try the idea behind the advice in the meantime.

So what were the results? Greener foliage, and more of it. If my plants' leaves are healthier, then it stands to reason that the buds will be, too. If not in quantity, then at least in quality.

Thing is, I'd thought sooner about combining veg and bloom specific nutrients but, like everyone else, kept reading labels and forum posts both saying to never use the two together.

Like I said, believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

BTW, don't know if Jack Peters is still available to take calls, but it's worth talking to the old pHart if you can. About his 10-30-20, we were discussing the ratio and design, and he admitted that even the 30 for P was high, plants just don't need it to flower well. Plant I grew outdoors a couple of years ago got a continuous feed 18-6-12, bloomed like a mofo. (It was auto too.)

Of course I didn't want to hurt my plants, so I didn't do it. Once I read that on the Jack's Classic site, however, I decided it can't hurt... I was already getting a lot more yellowing leaves than I wanted.

I'm so glad I decided to go with what common sense dictated to me (albeit not until I saw it confirmed elsewhere, LOL), instead of what I'm told not to do because the plants don't "want" very much N during the flowering cycle... apparently mine wanted more N, because that's exactly what made them perk up and show some real thrive. I think I had a total of four yellow/dead leaves on the indica I harvested last week... my first harvest too, so not too shabby!

Congrats! (I just had to highlight common sense.)

I can't count how many posts I've seen from experienced growers saying that a plant is done and ready to harvest when it looks like it's dying... because it is. Well DUH, it's dying when it's not being fed properly!

Dat's right! Another reason why flushing is such a farce, but, paradigms don't die in cannabis forums, they just grow old to this here fart.

Don't get too caught up in numbers on the bottle. You have to think about what the plant sees.

Good points. On numerous occasions I have mentioned elemental antagonism effects. Here's the link again. This should be mandatory reading, with a test, before you are allowed to post in the grow forums here.

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

.....and this should be the secondary requirement.

http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html?

Those numbers are (basically) the elemental weight in the bottle. 20-20-20 is 20% by weight N and so on. Then depending on your mixing instructions it's diluted to what you need.

20-20-20 at 1tsp per gallon is the same as 10-10-10 at 2tsp per gallon. Get what I'm say'n here?

And when a vendor sells a cannabis specific food of say.... a 1-.5-3 weight.....

And for those looking for Jacks and can't find it try looking for Supernatural Terra Bloom. It's just about the same NPK (11-31-15). I use it and like it.

Deal killer for me is the word word "Supernatural". i skeered

.....and $30 for less than a pound plus all the bullshit claims you've got to put with in the ad, AND no analysis provided, spells B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T for this here bendejo. http://www.hydroponics-garden.com/bloom-terra-400g-11-31-15.html

I could tear apart some of these false claims and "givens" here but I don't have the time. "Vitamins and hormones, allantoin, pH buffered for soil and soiless mixes ?" Give me a break. http://www.sulphurplasma.com/terraponic/terra-powders.pdf

Mark, perhaps you can help out this gentleman: https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/242418-supernatural-bloom-terra.html

Says the food has micros but after doing an extensive search, the analysis is no where to be found. Suggests these guys have something to hide and are mis-representing their product. Don't want to rain on you parade, but this isn't my first rodeo.

Best buy for Jack's is in 25 lb. bags. Should be around a buck a pound or $25, which will last you a lifetime.

UB

 

[Mark5:9]

Supernatural is pretty old school when it comes to those types of foods. They don't have a fancy PR department nor are they Internet savvy. Their Terra (soil) Grow is a 20-20-20 and again works really well. All the micros and stuff are on the bottle. On the down side they have a lot of foo foo products that I think are unnecessary.

 

[Dr. Indica]

I also use (N) during the flowering stage. I use a 4-8-7 flowering food, with a .7-4-11 additive. I also do not loose any of my leaves during flowering and do not experience a bad taste. If producing seeds (N) is a must, I don't see why it should be any different for producing flowers.

He and i sing from the same sheet of music. I'm not sure what Nitrogen or chlorophyll tastes like, but you sure read alot about it.

Chlorophyll tastes like mint, best way to describe it I think.....a minty taste.

Never had a bad taste from (N)

 

[Katatawnic]

Congrats! (I just had to highlight common sense.)

Thanks! For some odd reason, I've always been a strong proponent of common sense.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Supernatural is pretty old school when it comes to those types of foods. They don't have a fancy PR department nor are they Internet savvy. Their Terra (soil) Grow is a 20-20-20 and again works really well. All the micros and stuff are on the bottle. On the down side they have a lot of foo foo products that I think are unnecessary.

Thanks for the label. Looks like the only thing it's missing is Mg.