Changing Things

[RickWhite]

Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

Either way, I await your answers.

 

[NoDrama]

There is no Delicate balance, its in your face balance. Death and rebirth aren't delicate. Throw caution to the wind. Wisdom is only wisdom when it is acted upon. Laws have a great effect on mankind, how many have been imprisoned for victimless crimes?
Human affairs cannot be managed, they can only be guided somewhat.

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

edit:

What if the bright leaders who answered your questions for themselves formed their own clubs with their own funding and their own rules?

What if folks used their own minds and souls to decide for themselves?

Would the fittest survive, or would they just do better than The Others?

 

[RickWhite]

What if the bright leaders who answered your questions for themselves formed their own clubs with their own funding and their own rules?

What if folks used their own minds and souls to decide for themselves?

You tell me. If you were to write an instruction manual for how a Nation of people should live what would it look like? How long would such an undertaking take? If you were able to accomplish something of this magnitude and have it work, would it be wise for the next generation to come along and simply rewrite it?

 

[jeff f]

Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

i dont accept this premise. there is nothing delicate about nature or society. ever live through an earthquake, tornado, hurricane. how about walking through a desert or the north pole? nothing delicate or balanced at all about nature. thats just a bunch of touchy feely hogwash.

most of the world is ruled by violence and tyranny. the only answer is for respect of human life, each and every human life. walah, the constitution is the best document/govt that gives human life value. govt does just the opposite. they have no value for your life. they could care less if you can feed your family. they will confiscate your house and sell it while you are still living there because you didnt pay your taxes. the thing they dont tell you is that you could have easily paid your taxes if they wouldnt have stole the money out of your paycheck. and it just keeps spiraling more out of control.

in this economic climate read the news papers and look at all the states that are looking for ways to "raise revenues". code word for steal more of your money. thats why big govt should be avoided like the plague.

 

[medicineman]

Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

Either way, I await your answers.

Do you believe being a "Big time factory owner" makes you any better than the loliest of your employes? Remember I said "Better".
Now, what would Jesus do?

 

[ilkhan]

Jesus Would pay a fair wage.
Jesus Would give 10% to cherity.
Your move holyman!

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

Some speak to me as a holy person.

50%

Here's my favorite:

http://www.thetrailblazerfoundation.org/

 

[RickWhite]

i dont accept this premise. there is nothing delicate about nature or society. ever live through an earthquake, tornado, hurricane. how about walking through a desert or the north pole? nothing delicate or balanced at all about nature. thats just a bunch of touchy feely hogwash.

most of the world is ruled by violence and tyranny. the only answer is for respect of human life, each and every human life. walah, the constitution is the best document/govt that gives human life value. govt does just the opposite. they have no value for your life. they could care less if you can feed your family. they will confiscate your house and sell it while you are still living there because you didnt pay your taxes. the thing they dont tell you is that you could have easily paid your taxes if they wouldnt have stole the money out of your paycheck. and it just keeps spiraling more out of control.

in this economic climate read the news papers and look at all the states that are looking for ways to "raise revenues". code word for steal more of your money. thats why big govt should be avoided like the plague.

Don't get hung up on semantics. A "delicate balance" doesn't mean everything is fragile. If the Earth was just a smidgen closer to or further from the Sun all life would die. This is delicate balance.

But to run with part of your example, what about the Constitution. Did the framers just toss anything in there thinking that oversights would be of no consequence or did they labor over every word knowing the crucial nature of what they were doing? Is the Constitution something we should just change on a whim or should we deliberate carefully before making changes?

 

[medicineman]

Don't get hung up on semantics. A "delicate balance" doesn't mean everything is fragile. If the Earth was just a smidgen closer to or further from the Sun all life would die. This is delicate balance.

But to run with part of your example, what about the Constitution. Did the framers just toss anything in there thinking that oversights would be of no consequence or did they labor over every word knowing the crucial nature of what they were doing? Is the Constitution something we should just change on a whim or should we deliberate carefully before making changes?

One must remember, the "framers" were the elites of their day. They set up the constitution to benefit them. It was the bill of rights that kinda leveled the playing field, that document has pretty much been rendered useless by the current day elites, as in money talks, everything else walks.

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

I believe societies, like all transitory structures of nature can only be defined a singularity along a spectrum.

I believe societies can only change themselves.

I believe societies carry much inertia.

I also believe in other laws of nature.

Like if I think about too many things at once I can't answer all questions.



Money=Power

Follow the money to find the power.

 

[RickWhite]

Can we please keep this conversation on track here.


Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

Either way, I await your answers.

 

[medicineman]

Can we please keep this conversation on track here.


Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

Either way, I await your answers.

I get it, it's your way or the highway, what arrogant BS. Keep up the good work.

 

[Cloud City]

Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

no

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

no

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

no

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

no

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

no

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

no

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

yes

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

no

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

Either way, I await your answers.

You need to start thinking outside the box and realize all that bullshit doesn't matter.

 

[RickWhite]

no





no






no








no









no







no








yes







no








You need to start thinking outside the box and realize all that bullshit doesn't matter.

Well there we have it - the very definition of hubris and ignorance. I can't even imagine going through life with such a superficial worldview.

You should try actually reading things written by some of histories great thinkers. For instance Socrates taught us that a man is truly wise when he comes to understand how little he knows.

Of course this explains why you and those like you claim to know everything.

 

[Leothwyn]

Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

Yes.

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

Yes. But, I don't believe that we should automatically be scared of change. Whether we like it or not, the world is changing fast. We need to be able to adapt.

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

Yes.

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

Yes, some do. There's a whole spectrum of different laws and of different people (people with different inclinations to obey or ignore laws).

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

Yes. Though some old 'wisdom' does need to be tossed out at times. Guess that's when it doesn't stand the test of time.

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

In a rapidly changing world, sometimes that is the case. It's wisdom from a time when people couldn't foresee the way the world/society has developed.
It's not ALL or NOTHING.

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

There often may be danger... but it can also at times be more dangerous for us to be scared of change, and to want to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that there isn't a problem.
Outcome ALWAYS good? Nope.
Wanting change does not mean that a person thinks that they're 'so much smarter and wiser than those before us'. It could mean that the world has moved in directions that those before us didn't think of.
You're bias is showing in your questions.

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

I suppose that there are some laws that fit that description. And many that don't.

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

I don't see, and I don't agree. What a polarized perspective. IMO, it's not that simple.

Either way, I await your answers.

 

[RickWhite]

Do you believe that society, like nature, exists in a delicate balance?

Yes.

Do you believe that we should always proceed with great care and cation when making changes to the way society functions?

Yes. But, I don't believe that we should automatically be scared of change. Whether we like it or not, the world is changing fast. We need to be able to adapt.

Do you believe that society has standards of conduct that are immensely important for reasons beyond what is immediately evident?

Yes.

Do you believe that the laws we pass influence the way people think and behave?

Yes, some do. There's a whole spectrum of different laws and of different people (people with different inclinations to obey or ignore laws).

Do you believe that wisdom exists that has stood the test of time and that we should never be quick to dismiss it?

Yes. Though some old 'wisdom' does need to be tossed out at times. Guess that's when it doesn't stand the test of time.

Or, do you believe that all wisdom that came before us is simply old and outdated and that we should always strive to make improvements to society based on new and improved beliefs?

In a rapidly changing world, sometimes that is the case. It's wisdom from a time when people couldn't foresee the way the world/society has developed.
It's not ALL or NOTHING.

Do you believe there is no danger in making such changes and that the outcome will always be good because we are so much smarter and wiser than those before us?

There often may be danger... but it can also at times be more dangerous for us to be scared of change, and to want to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that there isn't a problem.
Outcome ALWAYS good? Nope.
Wanting change does not mean that a person thinks that they're 'so much smarter and wiser than those before us'. It could mean that the world has moved in directions that those before us didn't think of.
You're bias is showing in your questions.

Do you believe that the laws we put in place have no effect on how people think or on their behavior?

I suppose that there are some laws that fit that description. And many that don't.

You see, there are basically two philosophies with regard to our management of human affairs. Most either believe in the former or the latter - although when put this way I suspect people who live by the latter will proclaim the former.

I don't see, and I don't agree. What a polarized perspective. IMO, it's not that simple.

Either way, I await your answers.

Now we are getting somewhere. I agree with just about everything you said. Some things should change. We once owned slaves, though many point out that this was never universally accepted as moral. But ending slavery and say the civil rights movement were definitely good changes.

But not everything is quite so black and white (no pun intended). Many other things are so subtle that we are certain to overlook them and yet they can have profound effects. Ever see the movie "Butterfly effect"?

I look at it this way. The human condition is very complex - far more complex than even the most complex piece of equipment we have. Now suppose there was a 10 million dollar piece of equipment. Most people wouldn't monkey with something like this unless they were damn sure of what they were doing - right?

But society, our Country and the human condition are worth far more than the 10 million dollar piece of equipment and far more complex. Even something as simple as the relationship between men and women is so complex we are still trying to figure it out after thousands of years. And yet despite this, the same person who would never dream of monkeying with the 10 million dollar machine sees absolutely nothing wrong with monkeying with our human condition - something immensely more valuable and more complex.

Now how does that make sense?

 

[Cloud City]

Well there we have it - the very definition of hubris and ignorance. I can't even imagine going through life with such a superficial worldview.

You should try actually reading things written by some of histories great thinkers. For instance Socrates taught us that a man is truly wise when he comes to understand how little he knows.

Of course this explains why you and those like you claim to know everything.

Socrates, schmockrates. Have you ever tried to have an independent, original thought of your own?

 

[RickWhite]

Socrates, schmockrates. Have you ever tried to have an independent, original thought of your own?

Coming from you that must mean one I pulled out of my ass.

I've got news for you; just because your parents and teachers wanted to make you feel good about yourself does not mean that they were right when they told you that all your opinions and ideas are just as good as anyone else's.

You are a shining example of what is wrong with the way people think these days - that it is fine to be arrogant as long as you are equally as ignorant.

Try to comprehend that just maybe there are people in the World that are wiser and more knowledgeable. I know it's a new concept but you just might learn something.

 

[Cloud City]

Coming from you that must mean one I pulled out of my ass.

I've got news for you; just because your parents and teachers wanted to make you feel good about yourself does not mean that they were right when they told you that all your opinions and ideas are just as good as anyone else's.

You are a shining example of what is wrong with the way people think these days - that it is fine to be arrogant as long as you are equally as ignorant.

Try to comprehend that just maybe there are people in the World that are wiser and more knowledgeable. I know it's a new concept but you just might learn something.

Then what does that make you? A self righteous know it all?