For the Progressives in the forum ...

[lopezri]

WOW! That was long but it was good! Thanks for sharing that Vi!!!

 

[lopezri]

Dude, you musta coppied off of everyone back in grade school...

I can't stand it when you liberals have no way to fight back with truths so you just start using childish arguments to try to sound like you know something. Grow up!

That comment was just as bad as saying . . ."well, my mom is prettier than your mom" then sticking out your tongue at Vi.

 

[ilkhan]

"it is hard not to be reminded of the Progressive concept of the God State, a major theme of Liberal Fascism. The “State is the actually existing, realized moral life . . . The divine idea as it exists on earth,” Hegel declared in The Philosophy of History. The State, according to Hegel, was the “march of God on earth.”

I knew it I called it! Progressives are a damn cult.
Yep keep praying to the feet of Government.
You people will destroy the last vestages of individuality and freedom.
You create your utopia through threats of force and violence.
You create your utopia through confiscation of the labor of the masses.
You punish the productive and hard working people and leash them.
You tie us all to the greatness of the state.
Personal fulfilment, growth, dreams are subjegated to the will of the state.

You are a unique and powerful being, at the risk of sounding like a dirty hippy.
I'm sure 85% of people just don't care.
They will be happy to live their lives in your vision.
But what of the other 15%???
Must we bow before your new god as well??

Your answer to that question will tell you alot about yourself and your ideoligy.

 

[ViRedd]

Dude, you musta coppied off of everyone back in grade school...

Is this comment an admission that there is no way to open your mind?

 

[PadawanBater]

I can't stand it when you liberals have no way to fight back with truths so you just start using childish arguments to try to sound like you know something. Grow up!

That comment was just as bad as saying . . ."well, my mom is prettier than your mom" then sticking out your tongue at Vi.

Is this comment an admission that there is no way to open your mind?

Both of you guys have no idea what I stand for, label me anything you'd like, it doesn't change that fact.

You like labeling people so you have a defined ''enemy'' you can rally against. It's not always so simple. Did I ever say I was progressive? Did I ever say I was liberal? Why do you have to be anything? Nobody is 100% anything, we all share ideas and concepts from all sides of the spectrum. I have conservative and liberal opinions on different things.

Vi made this thread hoping someone would fit into his little box of what he believed "progressive" meant, nobody did. What does that tell you about that? Tells me that what he thinks "progressive" is isn't really what it is...

Do you honestly think I'd be for any programs or ideas that I actively KNEW would fail? Why would ANYONE do that?

What your saying is essentially that people are what you believe to be ''progressive'' because they want America to fail. Why would anyone in America want that?


And the last comment was because that's all you ever do, copy/paste. Whenever I ask you for your opinion, copy/paste. Whenever I ask you what you think about something... copy/paste... I can't recall any times when I've asked you an honest opinion, what YOU actually thought about it, without you coming back with something from Coulter or Beck or some other equally as biased right wing outlet... Never, not once. When I ask you YOUR opinion, that's what I want. I want to know what YOU think about the issue, not what any blogger has to say about it. Can't you guys come up with shit to say in your own words?

 

[lopezri]

Both of you guys have no idea what I stand for, label me anything you'd like, it doesn't change that fact.

You like labeling people so you have a defined ''enemy'' you can rally against. It's not always so simple. Did I ever say I was progressive? Did I ever say I was liberal? Why do you have to be anything? Nobody is 100% anything, we all share ideas and concepts from all sides of the spectrum. I have conservative and liberal opinions on different things.

Vi made this thread hoping someone would fit into his little box of what he believed "progressive" meant, nobody did. What does that tell you about that? Tells me that what he thinks "progressive" is isn't really what it is...

Do you honestly think I'd be for any programs or ideas that I actively KNEW would fail? Why would ANYONE do that?

What your saying is essentially that people are what you believe to be ''progressive'' because they want America to fail. Why would anyone in America want that?


And the last comment was because that's all you ever do, copy/paste. Whenever I ask you for your opinion, copy/paste. Whenever I ask you what you think about something... copy/paste... I can't recall any times when I've asked you an honest opinion, what YOU actually thought about it, without you coming back with something from Coulter or Beck or some other equally as biased right wing outlet... Never, not once. When I ask you YOUR opinion, that's what I want. I want to know what YOU think about the issue, not what any blogger has to say about it. Can't you guys come up with shit to say in your own words?

I hardly ever cut and paste. Pretty much everything I put as a post is in my own words. Just because some has some beliefs like Beck and Hannity doesn't mean they are copying them, maybe they just have the same beliefs.

I didn't mean to call you a liberal, that was an assumption on my part. I appologize for that. But still. . . the comment was a weak argument.

 

[PadawanBater]

I hardly ever cut and paste. Pretty much everything I put as a post is in my own words. Just because some has some beliefs like Beck and Hannity doesn't mean they are copying them, maybe they just have the same beliefs.

I didn't mean to call you a liberal, that was an assumption on my part. I appologize for that. But still. . . the comment was a weak argument.

I was talking about Vi mainly with the copy/paste thing.

I agree that would be a very weak argument. But it wasn't really meant to be used like that. Vi doesn't realize we agree on a lot of things, excessive spending and such.

 

[ViRedd]

In fairness, I would say that about 90% of what I post in this forum comes from my own brain, travels down to my fingers and comes out through the keyboard. Most of what I cut & paste are articles that I find interesting and post them as thread starters.

The reason I started this thread was in an effort to get the progressive/liberals who post in this forum to take an introspective look at where their policies/wishes would eventually lead the country. This, as I expected, has led nowhere.

As I said before, either the libbies are clueless, and devoid of a knowledge of unrevised history, or they know very well where their policies would led us, but they haven't the grace to call what they espouse by its proper name: SLAVERY

 

[doobnVA]

In fairness, I would say that about 90% of what I post in this forum comes from my own brain, travels down to my fingers and comes out through the keyboard. Most of what I cut & paste are articles that I find interesting and post them as thread starters.

The reason I started this thread was in an effort to get the progressive/liberals who post in this forum to take an introspective look at where their policies/wishes would eventually lead the country. This, as I expected, has led nowhere.

As I said before, either the libbies are clueless, and devoid of a knowledge of unrevised history, or they know very well where their policies would led us, but they haven't the grace to call what they espouse by its proper name: SLAVERY

There you go again, using "progressive" and "liberal" as if they are interchangeable.

More proof that you have no concept of what the term "progressive" means (and likely no clue of what the term "liberal" means, either). You use these as pejorative terms to describe any school of thought that differs from your own, without any regard as to the correct application of the terms.


I'd ask you to go read up about the concept of "social justice", and then find some facts and figures regarding the income inequalities in the US as compared to the rest of the world. I believe the Dalai Lama recently gave a speech on the subject.

What is going on NOW in America is more correctly compared to "slavery" than ANY "liberal" OR "progressive" ideology.

The "progressive/libbies" know exactly what their values are. Just because YOU choose to skew them to make yourself feel superior proves nothing.

 

[ViRedd]

There you go again, using "progressive" and "liberal" as if they are interchangeable.

More proof that you have no concept of what the term "progressive" means (and likely no clue of what the term "liberal" means, either). QUOTE]

OK, let's assume your correct in this analysis. Perhaps I DO have a misconception of the meaning of Progressive and Liberal. How about setting me straight on the issue?

What is YOUR concept and definition of these two terms?

Thanks in advance for answering.

 

[doobnVA]

There you go again, using "progressive" and "liberal" as if they are interchangeable.

More proof that you have no concept of what the term "progressive" means (and likely no clue of what the term "liberal" means, either). QUOTE]

OK, let's assume your correct in this analysis. Perhaps I DO have a misconception of the meaning of Progressive and Liberal. How about setting me straight on the issue?

What is YOUR concept and definition of these two terms?

Thanks in advance for answering.

I posted about 10 links to progressive web sites in another thread. I'm glad you bothered to glance at them.

Progressivism is a political and social term that refers to ideologies and movements favoring or advocating changes or reform, usually in a statist or egalitarian direction for economic policies (government management) and liberal direction for social policies (personal choice). Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative ideologies.

Now, notice that it does say progressivism embraces a liberal direction for social policies (because they are both labels attributed to Democrats, this makes sense, right?), however there are fundamental differences between "liberals" and "progressives".

Read the following:

"What's the difference between a liberal and a progressive and why does it matter to you?"

http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/2009/05/14/the-progressive-tribe-and-improving-the-world/

and this:

"What's the difference between a liberal and a progressive?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/whats-the-difference-betw_b_9140.html

Now, modern liberalism DID indeed arise out of the progressive movements of the late 19th and early 20th century. The NEW Progressive movement (yeah, the same one you've repeatedly mocked me for mentioning, as if it didn't exist) has essentially arisen from the FAILURE of the modern liberal movement. You know that "Progressive caucus" in Congress? Less than 20 years old.

Much like the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Progressive movements, this new progressive movement is just a new twist on old politics. New Progressive incorporate many different ideologies in a way that is CURRENT and applicable to the modern world - instead of clinging to old ideologies that have been proven ineffective in both theory and practice. In contrast, modern liberalism is simply a carry-over of old policies and ideas, hence the term "progressive".

 

[ViRedd]

I posted about 10 links to progressive web sites in another thread. I'm glad you bothered to glance at them.

Progressivism is a political and social term that refers to ideologies and movements favoring or advocating changes or reform, usually in a statist or egalitarian direction for economic policies (government management) and liberal direction for social policies (personal choice). Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative ideologies.

Now, notice that it does say progressivism embraces a liberal direction for social policies (because they are both labels attributed to Democrats, this makes sense, right?), however there are fundamental differences between "liberals" and "progressives".

Read the following:

"What's the difference between a liberal and a progressive and why does it matter to you?"

http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/2009/05/14/the-progressive-tribe-and-improving-the-world/

and this:

"What's the difference between a liberal and a progressive?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/whats-the-difference-betw_b_9140.html

Now, modern liberalism DID indeed arise out of the progressive movements of the late 19th and early 20th century. The NEW Progressive movement (yeah, the same one you've repeatedly mocked me for mentioning, as if it didn't exist) has essentially arisen from the FAILURE of the modern liberal movement. You know that "Progressive caucus" in Congress? Less than 20 years old.

Much like the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Progressive movements, this new progressive movement is just a new twist on old politics. New Progressive incorporate many different ideologies in a way that is CURRENT and applicable to the modern world - instead of clinging to old ideologies that have been proven ineffective in both theory and practice. In contrast, modern liberalism is simply a carry-over of old policies and ideas, hence the term "progressive".

OK, I don't disagree with anything that's said on those two links, as far as I read them.

In the Huffington link, the author admits that progressivism uses government FORCE to bend the will of the private sector. This flies in the face of liberty devotees.

In the first link, the author admits that the term "liberal" USED to stand for those who wanted to promote liberty, free markets and free minds. This is exactly what I've said all along ... that the old time liberals were actually Libertarians and PaleoConservatives.

The socialists took the term liberal as their own around 1900 or so.
These are the so-called liberals, actually socialists, who gave us the 16th Amerncment (income tax) and the Federal Reserve Act, both passed in 1913.

The liberals/socialists further to the left are now calling themselves Progressives. They are hard-left socialists who want to put society into their little box of rules and regulations in order to manufacture a utopian society ... THAT THEY CONTROL.

Are we on the same page now?