Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

[born2killspam]

They're the right flouros in anycase.. I'd suggest looking into industrial electrical/lighting places in your phone-book, the places contractors would use if you can cool them.. I used to get 400W setups for like $50-60.. Fancy bulbs/ballasts fon't really mean shit, but they're compatible nontheless..

 

[supdro]

hey snaks don't let them get you down. cfl's work and are very efficient. get the book buds for less. great read!!! I have used them also to start out and you are doing the right thing. personally i would use t-5's so if one of the big ones burn out it won't cost an arm and leg to replace. I would recommend HTG supply good peeps and talk to tony if you have an issue .... he will fix it. sorry for jacking thread but what strains of plants have you topped and which did it not work so well with??

 

[Uncle Ben]

I eventually plan on making the switch from CFLs to HPS, but until I have the extra $250 lying around (hopefully i can save that money after this harvest from not having to buy herb ), I'll be tinkering with these bulbs. I will probably keep my t-5's and 6500k CFLS for vegging, as they seem to do the job just fine, but I know deep down inside that I need to make the switch to HPS for flowering.

By the time it's flowering, it's almost too late regardng plant vigor/health. In its natural setting, cannabis receives less light during flowering than veg. Leave it up to cannabis forums to get it bass ackwards and screw up plants with too much light and not enough N during the flowering response.

Ben thanks again for your insight. Watching the progress of my "accident", I'm seeing much more even progress between the 3 leading branches than any of the other plants I topped, which seem to really promote the growth of the top two leading branches. This might turn into a happy accident, so I look forward to seeing how she grows.

Have fun. It's all about the learning experience.

 

[Snak]

Ben- I see what you mean, about how going from CFL at veg to HPS at flower would be against the natural flow of things. If outdoor light isn't an option, are MH bulbs your suggested light?

supdro- Yeah the CFLs are doing their job right now, but I really do want to switch to HPS to avoid the hassle of light repositioning, and just having to use ONE plug would be such a relief . Actually, to be honest, I would most likely continue to use my CFLs in conjunction with an HPS bulb if I had my way (and I think I will in the coming months).

I also have already gone through Tony at HTG for my t5 bulbs and my FoxFarm nutrients. He did me well, yes he did. To answer your other questions, I had 3 northern lights plants, one which had been topped according to Ben's technique. Its conditions were identical to two other plants that had not been topped. The topped plant produced way more bud, and the quality was somehow better- the nugs were denser and sweeter. I'm not sure that has to do with the topping though, it may have just been that specific plant.

Born2kill- that sounds like a sweet deal, but keeping temps down in the summer kept me quite busy already, and I was only using CFLs . I don't mind spending the money on a good hps+ballast if it works well and saves me the hassle of constant light bulbs and clippys and pulling my hair out.

 

[born2killspam]

MH lights are fine.. I think a mix of MH & HPS used throughout the grow is the best case scenario indoors..
Seriously I'd buy as much cheap HID as you can.. Fuck HTG (unless they can beast industrial wholesale prices like Westburne Electric )
These places usually have great deals on sweet blowers and fans, and carry small HID that will create less total heat than your cfls too..
Basically if you're in a position to actually grow then you can't do wrong with industrial type/sized stuff, but if you're just hoping to sneak out a crop in your closet before your mom puts your laundry away then stick with cfls and pc fans etc..

 

[Uncle Ben]

Ben- I see what you mean, about how going from CFL at veg to HPS at flower would be against the natural flow of things. If outdoor light isn't an option, are MH bulbs your suggested light?

It really doesn't matter what you use as long as you're growing plenty of foliage and keeping it green, healthy, and abundant until harvest. Some of my best results were using a HPS ONLY from start to finish. There is alot of hype when it comes to light spectrums. I have found in spite of all the ditties on spectrums, professional and otherwise, that the plant just doesn't care. Do the experiment. Grow a garden with only a HPS or MH, see for yourself. They are both full spectrum plants. The manufacturers and their vendors are only in it for the money, so they'll push this and that, conversion ballasts, all kinds of crap, etc. My best and most efficient hood is an old Diamond Lights, SMALL horizontal hood with a gull wing insert which I retrofitted with some very high quality, super shiny, spectral material using a drill and a rivet gun. I also built my own ballast box using parts and a junction box to house them in.

You're buying light so you should consider your light bill and efficiency and of course garden maintenance. I mean, who wants to be a slave to their plants?

Proper placement of side reflecting panels can increase light received by 30%

I had 3 northern lights plants, one which had been topped according to Ben's technique. Its conditions were identical to two other plants that had not been topped. The topped plant produced way more bud, and the quality was somehow better- the nugs were denser and sweeter. I'm not sure that has to do with the topping though, it may have just been that specific plant.

Who knows, it could have been the plant then again it could have been your culture. Whatever, you got your results and that's what counts.

Have fun,
Tio

 

[Uncle Ben]

PLEASE READ > https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/246881-i-owe-mysticlown150-apology.html

My name is 420OldSchoolDJ420.. My account was banned .

so you ban me for no reason again? do you feel like big men? You know and everyone knows I didnt do shit to warrant a ban.. you ride ppl and ride ppl until you weed out the ones you dont like or that dont kiss your ass..

I think you got the wrong thread. This one is about topping. Please clean up your act (delete the diatribe).

Thanks,
UB

 

[Snak]

Good info, guys, thanks again.

 

[Katatawnic]

You're buying light so you should consider your light bill and efficiency and of course garden maintenance. I mean, who wants to be a slave to their plants?

Uncle Ben, I think I love you!!! Not "that" kinda love, but you know!

Now, because I've got a legal limit to maintain (six mature plants), I do put extra work into my plants such as LST after topping, etc., because outdoor growing isn't possible in my neighborhood unless I want my work to be stolen right at harvest time and I need to maximize my yields in order to be able to cook with MJ which is so very much effective more on my pain than just smoking it. I also simply love gardening, and this "hobby" of mine (I tend to think of it as simply a large part of my life now) gives me something to do with my boring, housebound days. So I do put more work into my plants than some would, although not nearly as much work and worry as I've seen most do.

However, I've seen myriads (as I know you have as well) of conversations about how our plants just won't flourish and give back what we want if we don't do everything under the sun; sparing no expense, nearly to the point of sacrificing their limbs.... I was told just the other night that this guy often doesn't buy himself food so that his plants can have all they need! I've commented to some of these people about my keeping to the basics (lights, nutrients, water, air; but forget about all the supplements and additives and.... I think you get me!). And I've of course been told that I'm wrong. They say give your plants love, but what they mean and portray is to sacrifice your life to them.

I just find it so ridiculous that the vast majority of these same people would never dream of putting so much money and hard labor into their fruit and veggie gardens. Sometimes I'm amused, but more often I'm wondering about their common sense.

As a matter of fact, the other night I was told that my post was "boring" because I listed the unnecessary things I do not buy or do for my garden, as opposed to the overkill the OP listed, resulting in happy and healthy plants; with something like "just doing it vs. doing it right" being the thread's title.

I've been challenged when I state that many growers overdo nutrients, or overdo anything period. I'm on my way to my first MJ harvest, so of course there are many that point out I can't know what I'm talking about until I've had several harvests under my belt. It doesn't matter that I've been gardening most of my life, and have always had a green thumb. Because, as you know, cannabis isn't a plant.... it's an ethereal entity that just can't be comprehended by those who view it as anything else.

I'm just ranting, really. But I do have to say that this is why I have such respect for you and the few growers I've found like you.... no nonsense growers, who understand plants and don't spin a web of mystique around cannabis. I can also say that I've been told on a few occasions that my own no nonsense approach is appreciated, so I suppose not all is lost when answering questions asked in the forums. I was even given the name of "Encyclopedia Marijuanica" by one member, which I found to be creative as well as cute and just plain very complimentary. Flattering yet humbling at once.


ANYHOOO! Rant aside, I do have a question for you: one I've already asked and you're already answered, but unfortunately I failed to bookmark the page! That would be the title/author of the book you'd recommended to me, to brush up on botany. I'd stated that it doesn't need to be cannabis related, just a good basic botany reference book. The title you suggested actually is cannabis related, but still focusing on botany rather than "do this, do that, and you'll be doing it right" kind of crap. Would you be so kind and patient enough to give me this title/author again? The 1st is coming up, and I want to purchase it.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for all you do for all of us!
~~ Kat ~~

 

[Uncle Ben]

....So I do put more work into my plants than some would, although not nearly as much work and worry as I've seen most do.

I hear you. Gardening is alot of fun.

However, I've seen myriads (as I know you have as well) of conversations about how our plants just won't flourish and give back what we want if we don't do everything under the sun; sparing no expense, nearly to the point of sacrificing their limbs.... I was told just the other night that this guy often doesn't buy himself food so that his plants can have all they need!

I bet vendors like Advanced Nutrients love him! I'd say the poor guy needs some professional counseling, that's nuts!

I've commented to some of these people about my keeping to the basics (lights, nutrients, water, air; but forget about all the supplements and additives and.... I think you get me!). And I've of course been told that I'm wrong. They say give your plants love, but what they mean and portray is to sacrifice your life to them.

It's part of their idealogy, their mindset, and you'll never convince them otherwise that it's just a weed.

I just find it so ridiculous that the vast majority of these same people would never dream of putting so much money and hard labor into their fruit and veggie gardens. Sometimes I'm amused, but more often I'm wondering about their common sense.

And what's ironic, is these growers usually have the worst looking plants. Really, I've seen if for years. The more crap you throw at a plant, the more problems you have, like nutrient antagonism. It's all about concepts, and they are more immersed in erroneous concepts than botanical ones -> http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

.....I've been challenged when I state that many growers overdo nutrients,.......

Send them the above link.

I used off the shelf stuff in this experiment and within 3.5 weeks, my seedlings were flowered with excellent yields. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

I'm just ranting, really. But I do have to say that this is why I have such respect for you and the few growers I've found like you.... no nonsense growers, who understand plants and don't spin a web of mystique around cannabis. I can also say that I've been told on a few occasions that my own no nonsense approach is appreciated,.......

KISS principal. We're singing from the same sheet of music.

ANYHOOO! Rant aside, I do have a question for you: one I've already asked and you're already answered, but unfortunately I failed to bookmark the page! That would be the title/author of the book you'd recommended to me, to brush up on botany. I'd stated that it doesn't need to be cannabis related, just a good basic botany reference book.

Well, Mel Franks Insiders guide fits the bill. It is an excellent pot book and general book about plant culture. It covers the basics we discuss here and high tech stuff too. No hype, earthy and concise. I have the 1982 edition. There's a damn good reason why there's a half mil in print/sold, but it's that damn good! http://www.redeyepress.com/htm/book3.htm

Off topic, perhaps someone can help. Page one is screwed up for some reason. It started with all photos deleted. Now, where there should be only 4 photos in the original post, there are 12 which conveys a confusing progression of thought, some don't even apply. I've also noted that editing privileges are not available anymore for recent posts. Are you guys experiencing the same thing? I wrote a senior mod and rolliup hoping for relief just now. If I can't clean up my threads/posts for the sake of conveying clear and corrected info, then there is no use for me here anymore.

Regards,
UB

 

[Snak]

Quick observation here, Ben-

I noticed with my first grow that as my untopped plants grew, the number of blades per leaf increased as the got taller, I think I had one plant with 9 per leaf before it went into flower. However it seems that topping above the 2nd node seems to limit the number of blades per leaf to 5; I haven't seen any of my current topped plants (and I don't recall seeing my previous topped plant) grow more than 5 blades per leaf. It seems curious to me, I'm guessing there is some sort of botanical mechanic at work here that I don't know about?

To be honest, I don't know a damn thing about botany except what I've learned in this thread . That Mel Franks book would probably be a worthwhile purchase.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Snaks, were those seedlings or clones? If clones, that doesn't make sense. The number of leaves per leafset should remain constant.

The Mel Frank book is your shortcut to success.

 

[born2killspam]

Stresses can alter the lobe number.. I've seen it in severe drought, 7-9 lobers dropped down to 3-5 lobes for a while, and seration of the margins was lessened.. Not all that different from the revegging alteration, but less intense..
That was indica dominant bagseed btw..

 

[ganjman]

Indeed, i'd put the amounts of "fingers" down to stress - heat/light are the two big causes i've found. I once had a 4 ft skunk#1 that only ever had 3 blades per leaf because it was growin in a shaded area. Was still a female though and still harvested good.

 

[Roland]

Quick observation here, Ben-

I noticed with my first grow that as my untopped plants grew, the number of blades per leaf increased as the got taller, I think I had one plant with 9 per leaf before it went into flower. However it seems that topping above the 2nd node seems to limit the number of blades per leaf to 5; I haven't seen any of my current topped plants (and I don't recall seeing my previous topped plant) grow more than 5 blades per leaf. It seems curious to me, I'm guessing there is some sort of botanical mechanic at work here that I don't know about?

.

9 blades to a leafset is a function of several factors ...

9 blades are more common during heavy vegging stage .. ( time )

optimum nutrition and ..........I think pot size ( seems to me from observation over the years)

nine blades are more common in strains leaning towards sativa dominant

blade number seems to increase as stalk increases in size


the pictures below show eight plants from eight seeds ... one in paticular seeems more Sativa dominant ... six of the plants were topped for 4 or 6 main Cola's .. the most sativa dominant .. topped for six Kola's... it has seven blades / leaf .. mostly ... it vegged for six weeks after topping and is flowered about nine weeks at this point ....


Hello UB ......... Salute

 

[Roland]

Hey Unkle Ben, Hello from a fellow Texan. Thank you for your fantastic thread and all the info you have shared with us.

My question is, I have a clone only cali strain(blue dream) and the stem nodes aren't parallel with each other. In other words they are not staggered. I've never really seen a pot plant grow like this in vegitive state. Back to my question, is there anyway to incorporate this technique with growth that doesn't have opposing nodes?

One more too. Have you ever seen a marijuana plant grow like this in it's vegitive state? If so could you explain to me. I've done a little research on the strain. It's suppose to be a DJ short blueberry crossed with a haze. It look like a 100% sativa but has growth qualities like a indica.

Any input would be awesome.

Thanks a lot again for all the info you've put out.

peace and love

- anonymous in texas

This was a clone .. topped at alternating nodes .....

 

[smithsutton]

hey there uncle ben .. been a while .. ahh i no whos pic (sig pic) that was from the old og days .. how the hell ya been benny ..

ss ..

 

[Jack in the Bud]

Uncle Ben,

I got a batch of potting soil made up last week using the guidlines you recommended several pages back in this thread. I ended up with around 80 gallons worth. Got it stored in 2 32 gallon plastic garbage cans and a 20 gallon plastic tote. Yesterday I shoved my hand down into one of the garbage cans full of it and could feel the warmth of it "working". It's been cool here at night so a lot of the moisture in it has condensed on the underside of the lid and has kept the top inch or so really wet. Strating to get some of the fuzzy stuff growing on the surface layer.

I'm thinking this is a good thing, yes? Do I want to stir this "fungus" back in or leave the tops off the cans for a couple of days so the top layer dries out and no more of it forms?

I wasn't sure just how much you meant by a "big bag" of perlite and vermiculite so I ended up using a 5 gallon bucket full of each. I found 4 cf bags of each of those two things at one of my local nurseries ($25 for the perlite and $29 for the vermiculite) and have plenty of each left over for future mixes. Or I can always mix some more of it into this batch if you think it would be benefical. It kind of seems to me like I've got a good balance of those two in the mix. Yesterday I took a large Aloevera plant I had and broke it up into 5 other pots using this mix for potting soil. When I watered them in the soil sure seemed to drain thru real nice. Much better in fact than just straight (regular) MG potting soil does.

Followed your advice about the 4 cups of Alfalfa pellets and a squirt of soap dissolved into in a gallon of water (that mash went into the potting mix). I've been doing some reading up on that and I've got an Alfalfa Tea (1 cup of pellets in 5 gallons of water) brewing that I'm going to dose my regular house plants with just to see what the effect is. I bought a 50 lb. sack of them for $13 at a local feed store. I'm going to save back a 5 gallon buckets worth for future potting mixes and teas but plan on taking the rest of that sack of pellets and tilling it into the vegatable garden next spring before planting.

Per your advice I added 6 cups of blood meal, 3 cups of bone meal and 4 cups of Plantones Garden Lime (the label said it was derived from dolomitic sources) to this mix. Does this sound about the right amount of these things in 80 gallons of finished mix? Because I can still dump this mix back out on the floor and blend in some more of these ingredients if you think I may not have enough of any of them in there. Probably I should just quite fretting about it and use it as is, huh?

For the record here's exactly what went into the mix (besides what's described above)

3.8 cubic foot bale Sunshine Mix #2 (80% Sphagnum peat moss) ($25)

2 cubic foot bag regular Miracle Grow potting mix ($12)

1 cf bag EarthGro composted steer manure ($1.87)

1 cf bag EarthGro garden soil ($3.10)

 

[Richie LxP]

9 blades to a leafset is a function of several factors ...

9 blades are more common during heavy vegging stage .. ( time )

optimum nutrition and ..........I think pot size ( seems to me from observation over the years)

nine blades are more common in strains leaning towards sativa dominant

blade number seems to increase as stalk increases in size


the pictures below show eight plants from eight seeds ... one in paticular seeems more Sativa dominant ... six of the plants were topped for 4 or 6 main Cola's .. the most sativa dominant .. topped for six Kola's... it has seven blades / leaf .. mostly ... it vegged for six weeks after topping and is flowered about nine weeks at this point ....


Hello UB ......... Salute

A 9 finger Power Flower leaf. Its a 75%Indica-25%Sativa.

 

[Roland]

A 9 finger Power Flower leaf. Its a 75%Indica-25%Sativa.

I see the indica influence in the blade shape .... was it topped ?