help with top feed drip hydro

[scoobysnack420]

New at this, so I need some help. I comstructed my own 16 plant top feed drip system and I am using the Humboldt nutrients oneness program. I am following the 8 week feed regimine. I keep the nutes on the first week every time I change the nutes, so there is no increase on the amount of nutes I add to the reservoir. I also have the timer feed the plants for 15 min every hour the light is on, no feeding when the lights are off. I have the plants in pots with hydroton. Is this feeding schedule ok? The problem these plants aeem to have is that the older leaves on the bottom of the plant seem to get dried out or "crispy". They develop spotting on the leaves then seem to be junk a few days later, but the new growth seems healthy and fast. The 400W MH light that I am using is vertical mount without a relector about 18" from the top of the biggest plant. The temp in the room is between 75-80F. The PH is about 6 with spikes to 7 or 7.5 but the ppm ranges from 340-550 over the course of a week. Can anyone help, or have suggestions? I have never made it to harvest in 6 years of trying and I really would like to figure this out.

 

[highpsi]

I have never made it to harvest in 6 years of trying and I really would like to figure this out.

6 YEARS! Man, I give you credit for your sheer tenacity

At what point do your grows go bad? Is it for the same reason everytime?
Before you go any further, you need to find out why, for six years, you've been attempting to finish a grow and you can't make it to harvest.

 

[AlwaysFUBAR]

I have a drip system as well. Yea that is a long time with no payoff so lets figuare this thing out.

As far as the feeding schedule, it all depends on where you are dripping. Cubes, ring, or whatever. I personally use a drip ring that runs 24/7.

P/H spikes are way to high 5.8-6.3 is key.

 

[scoobysnack420]

6 YEARS! Man, I give you credit for your sheer tenacity

At what point do your grows go bad? Is it for the same reason everytime?
Before you go any further, you need to find out why, for six years, you've been attempting to finish a grow and you can't make it to harvest.

Yea I used to grow outdoors and my garden always got eaten, or discovered, or something. So now i moved indoor and I really want a harvest, it almost seems like its too much to ask for, my own free weed.

 

[scoobysnack420]

I have a drip system as well. Yea that is a long time with no payoff so lets figuare this thing out.

As far as the feeding schedule, it all depends on where you are dripping. Cubes, ring, or whatever. I personally use a drip ring that runs 24/7.

P/H spikes are way to high 5.8-6.3 is key.

Do you check ph and ppm everyday, if so do you add ph down everyday as well? I am not really sure about the ppm thing, I just cant wrap my mind around the thing. I have little rockwool cube about an inch on all sides in a bucket filled with hydroton, so the rootmass is basically all hydroton. I have these spray spikes in the hydroton with the tubes connected to them. The spike cuts the nutes spraying like two jets onto the hydroton. I will get my camerao so you can see my setup.

 

[AlwaysFUBAR]

Yea pics would def help. I check my ph about every 2 days. I am using Fox Farm nutes so they are pretty stable on the ph as the plants use up the nuts. If the water level it low I will add the ph up or down the the container before I put it in the res. If no water is needed then yes, strait in there.

 

[cruzer101]

Roots need time to dry, like in aero units you water to get it wet then wait 20 or 30 min and go again. I have read Its during the drying process your plant takes in nutrients.

I think your roots are constantly wet. I feed 30min to an hour twice a day and do fine in hydroton.

I don't use sprayers anymore. I just water the top and it trickles down like a pyramid. If the plant is not under a spigot I run a line and drip it right over the roots. Stays damp 24/7

These clones are three weeks, just flipped to 12/12

 

[scoobysnack420]

here is my setup

 

[scoobysnack420]

here are the close ups on the bad leaves

 

[scoobysnack420]

Roots need time to dry, like in aero units you water to get it wet then wait 20 or 30 min and go again. I have read Its during the drying process your plant takes in nutrients.

I think your roots are constantly wet. I feed 30min to an hour twice a day and do fine in hydroton.

I don't use sprayers anymore. I just water the top and it trickles down like a pyramid. If the plant is not under a spigot I run a line and drip it right over the roots. Stays damp 24/7

These clones are three weeks, just flipped to 12/12

So you think I should cut back the feedings, what should they be? 3 times a day for 30 min a piece?

 

[cruzer101]

Yea, I believe that would be fine.

IMO the issue with the lower leaf is not nutrient nor Ph related.
Those bleach spots are usually caused by insects. When it is an issue with nutrients the markings are more uniform.
I would research Thrips.

What you want to do is kill the adults and keep the eggs from hatching.
You could do this by squishing them between your fingers, no pest strip (not a sticky) or a bug bomb. You can cover the medium so the eggs don't drop in there and hatch.

The other thing I see you running into is when you go to flower you are going to have different size plants. This will bring up a lighting issue. It will have to be above the tallest plant so the smaller ones wont get enough light.

One way to fix this is to act now. Top the tall ones to slow down there growth.
You will have to do this twice maybe three times to get them even.

Another way to slow them down is to pinch the stalk. squeeze it in about halfway and release. This breaks down the walls and the plant will have to send its energy to rebuild it while the others catch up. Personally, I would top.

Its almost impossible to get all your plants the same height without training.
I find by putting a poultry screen above them and have them grow through it gives me several places to tie them to or weave them through. SCROG

If thats a mother on the left you are going to need to section her off when you go into flower. Is that dirt in a hydro grow? Your asking for trouble mixing them.
Its the bugs. Probably where your thrips came from.

Well, that should keep you busy. Feel free to check out my cabinet journals for tips on training and stuff. Feel free to comment or ask any questions on my current journal.

Nice job building your setup By the way.

.
​

 

[scoobysnack420]

Yea, I believe that would be fine.

IMO the issue with the lower leaf is not nutrient nor Ph related.
Those bleach spots are usually caused by insects. When it is an issue with nutrients the markings are more uniform.
I would research Thrips.

What you want to do is kill the adults and keep the eggs from hatching.
You could do this by squishing them between your fingers, no pest strip (not a sticky) or a bug bomb. You can cover the medium so the eggs don't drop in there and hatch.

The other thing I see you running into is when you go to flower you are going to have different size plants. This will bring up a lighting issue. It will have to be above the tallest plant so the smaller ones wont get enough light.

One way to fix this is to act now. Top the tall ones to slow down there growth.
You will have to do this twice maybe three times to get them even.

Another way to slow them down is to pinch the stalk. squeeze it in about halfway and release. This breaks down the walls and the plant will have to send its energy to rebuild it while the others catch up. Personally, I would top.

Its almost impossible to get all your plants the same height without training.
I find by putting a poultry screen above them and have them grow through it gives me several places to tie them to or weave them through. SCROG

If thats a mother on the left you are going to need to section her off when you go into flower. Is that dirt in a hydro grow? Your asking for trouble mixing them.
Its the bugs. Probably where your thrips came from.

Well, that should keep you busy. Feel free to check out my cabinet journals for tips on training and stuff. Feel free to comment or ask any questions on my current journal.

Nice job building your setup By the way.

.
​

If its thrips wouldn't they eat all the plants? The leave issue is only on my hydro plants, which makes me think I'm doin somethin wrong. Well this weekend I flushed my setup for two days using my feeding scedule to run the clean water over the plants. Today I am introducing a new batch of nutes which are slightly diluted from the origional recipe. Do you think that will help or causer other problems?

 

[cruzer101]

I think it is a good thing.

Funny, I have read several books on the subject of hydroponics and nutrients and it seems the solution is always the same. Flush it out and lower the amount of nutrients. Its always worked for me.

Think about it, How many times have you heard of someone Under nuteing a plant vs. over nuteing... Not very often huh?

But like I said, I don't believe those blotches are caused by nutrients. I cant say for sure what type of insect but if you look real close and see a light powdery substance then its thrips and there is like a thousand different species of those.
​

 

[scoobysnack420]

I agree, I really havn't read too much of anything about under nute-ing, I am under the assumption that all under nute-ing will do is not allow the plant to reach its full potential, but when vegging, who cares? right?

Well I have changed the nutes, running the oneness plan..which is at humboldtnutrients.com under feeding scedules, you will find the reccomended recipes. Take a look at the recipes they suggest.

Whaddya think about what they have as a recipe? I think something is off, but because I have never encountered plant problems other than thieves, this is all new to me.

After adding the nutes, HN says that after 24 hrs the oneness is supposed to buffer itsself from PH 4 to between 5.5 to 7. I have tried it by itsself and all together but it doesn't work for me. I added baking soda to get PH 6.6 last night. This morning it was 7.4, I added PH down to get it to 6.6 at 6 am, went to work and cam home. PH 7.1 added 10 ml ph down and got it down to 6.2. thats where it is now so hopefully its good now.

 

[scoobysnack420]

Yea, I believe that would be fine.

IMO the issue with the lower leaf is not nutrient nor Ph related.
Those bleach spots are usually caused by insects. When it is an issue with nutrients the markings are more uniform.
I would research Thrips.

What you want to do is kill the adults and keep the eggs from hatching.
You could do this by squishing them between your fingers, no pest strip (not a sticky) or a bug bomb. You can cover the medium so the eggs don't drop in there and hatch.

The other thing I see you running into is when you go to flower you are going to have different size plants. This will bring up a lighting issue. It will have to be above the tallest plant so the smaller ones wont get enough light.

One way to fix this is to act now. Top the tall ones to slow down there growth.
You will have to do this twice maybe three times to get them even.

Another way to slow them down is to pinch the stalk. squeeze it in about halfway and release. This breaks down the walls and the plant will have to send its energy to rebuild it while the others catch up. Personally, I would top.

Its almost impossible to get all your plants the same height without training.
I find by putting a poultry screen above them and have them grow through it gives me several places to tie them to or weave them through. SCROG

If thats a mother on the left you are going to need to section her off when you go into flower. Is that dirt in a hydro grow? Your asking for trouble mixing them.
Its the bugs. Probably where your thrips came from.

Well, that should keep you busy. Feel free to check out my cabinet journals for tips on training and stuff. Feel free to comment or ask any questions on my current journal.

Nice job building your setup By the way.

.
​

Thanks for your help man, I def check your stash of info.

 

[cruzer101]

Hey,

I checked out humbold.com and got the 8 week chart. This one right?

If you notice they do recomend you keep your ph between 5.5 and 7.2
I tell you what, thats too high for hydro. In Veg you want 5.5 to 6.0 max.
Once you get into flower you come up a tad to like 6.0 to 6.5 but thats it.

Sure you need to check it at least once a day. The Ph changes on a daily bases.
So does the PPMs. You mentioned you had a hard time getting it. Think of it this way.

The PPM is how much food they got, PH is sugar and salt.
You need the right spice or the food tastes like crap. ever had salt instead of sugar in your coffie?

The larger the res the easer it is to ballance.
I got this chart for ya, shows you what ph is good for what nutrient.
You want mostly Nitrogen in veg and then Phosphorous and Potassium in flower.

Always mix your nutes first then pH the water. Personally, I adjust to 500 PPMs or half manufactures recommended amount. If it is too strong I relpace a gallon with fresh and check ppms again. You can put a gallon of mixed in the fridge for a couple days and add it later if your ppms drop. I wouldn't keep it very long that way though. few days, if I dont use it I toss it.

Plants use water and nutes. The plants give off salts too and you cant measure the difference between nutrients and plant salts its all PPM.

So as your water level goes down you want the same PPM. Its going to rise so you add water then ph. once you have added the same amount of water as the res holds over time its time to start over. Once you get good at it and your plants are absorbing the nutrients as the water level lowers the ppms lower too!

Now your growing!
​

 

[scoobysnack420]

Hey,

I checked out humbold.com and got the 8 week chart. This one right?

If you notice they do recomend you keep your ph between 5.5 and 7.2
I tell you what, thats too high for hydro. In Veg you want 5.5 to 6.0 max.
Once you get into flower you come up a tad to like 6.0 to 6.5 but thats it.

Sure you need to check it at least once a day. The Ph changes on a daily bases.
So does the PPMs. You mentioned you had a hard time getting it. Think of it this way.

The PPM is how much food they got, PH is sugar and salt.
You need the right spice or the food tastes like crap. ever had salt instead of sugar in your coffie?

The larger the res the easer it is to ballance.
I got this chart for ya, shows you what ph is good for what nutrient.
You want mostly Nitrogen in veg and then Phosphorous and Potassium in flower.

Always mix your nutes first then pH the water. Personally, I adjust to 500 PPMs or half manufactures recommended amount. If it is too strong I relpace a gallon with fresh and check ppms again. You can put a gallon of mixed in the fridge for a couple days and add it later if your ppms drop. I wouldn't keep it very long that way though. few days, if I dont use it I toss it.

Plants use water and nutes. The plants give off salts too and you cant measure the difference between nutrients and plant salts its all PPM.

So as your water level goes down you want the same PPM. Its going to rise so you add water then ph. once you have added the same amount of water as the res holds over time its time to start over. Once you get good at it and your plants are absorbing the nutrients as the water level lowers the ppms lower too!

Now your growing!
​

I have read countless books on growing, watched and bought several movies on growing, and your the man that made it make sense...Thanks man

I thought I had to change my res everyweek, no matter what. I have been checking my ppm and ph every 12 hrs, and now it seems to be stabalizing. With this new info I have to lower it again. It was 6.4 at 450 ppm. The change in feeding seems to be working.

 

[cruzer101]

Great news.

When plants are small they use a hell of a lot less then when there monsters.
I go two weeks easy when they are young. On the other hand middle flower in the summer I change out twice in a week. Plants use more water and I run a 6 gallon res.

If the Ph is off the plants don't use as much water either. (salt in your coffee or sugar with your shot of tequila) If humidity is to high or they don't have enough fresh air (CO2) they cant process moisture and dont use much water. Funny thing, if that happens they expel more salts and your PPMs go up and its like WTF? LOL

So after I top off with six gallons I change, That way I know my PPMs are nutrients not plant salts.

One last thing, If you run your lights at night instead of daytime your temps will drop by 5 to 10°

I think you got a handle on it now, I still think you got bugs but I may be wrong.
Glad to return the helping hand I received here when I started.
I see lots of people asking questions but I took the time to help you because I saw you took the time to build a decent system and do some research before just asking.

Feel free to post in my journals or to PM me.

Now its time to show off.
If you havent seen my journals You have only seen my small cab.

Cool huh? My signature pic below was from when I started them. Forth Of July. They are in week 6 of flower now.

 

[scoobysnack420]

The pic didnt show on my computer, just showed a little red x. But thanks for the help I will def read your journals. I think I am going to update photos of my plants everyweek.

The Amsterdam Indica I bought seems like it is doing well, cant wait to smoke some good bud for a change, instead of the overpriced commercial brick weed im smokin now. The big plant in the soil is just bag weed, but whatever. My friend BionicCronic buys all the good seeds and I grow the shit, but I rather experiment on crap.

As far as my grow room contruction, thanks! I built it out of spare lumber I had from other projects, Wired my room from rhe panel myself. Everything is vaporlocked in plastic before mylar went up. Used caulking on all seems, and gaskets on entryway, no light escaping at all. I also built an identical room next to it,which is under construction right now. Both rooms are 4x5x8. I got the bud room its own 9000 btu sanyo ductless mini split a/c unit that I have to install and wire one of these days. I want my girls in a spa.