Evolution Is A Theory On Which You Base A Religion

Nocturn3

Well-Known Member
I went to church 100% sober.
Then People around me at church started doing all that "crazy stuff" likes falling down shaking etc etc.
Then a few people came and prayed for me and before you know it i felt wrecked !! The most intense buzz from my toes to the top of my head felt like i was rushing my tits off like being on lots of drugs.
I ended up on the floor.
stuck.
My hands were clentched in a weird postion that was almost painful. but i couldnt move.
And then after that a load of complete strangers started telling me things that i had read in the bible recently and thoughts that i hadnt shared with people but they were saying them word for word as they apeared in my head!!!! so that is how i came to the conclusion that it was from the all mighty.
Sounds more like a cult ceremony than a church one (if there is really a difference). What you "experienced" was a group delusion, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was also some foul play involved to invoke that kind of behaviour from the congregation. I could make guesses as to the techniques used to do this, but it would only be conjecture on my part.

If I am wrong, I invite the holy spirit round to my house to invoke the same response from me. If I feel what you felt in the next 30 minutes, I will believe your experience was real, and will join you in preaching to the world.

Shouldn't be too hard for an omnipotent being to do, right?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Have you got any science proof that what happened to me today was not a gift from the creator but something else?
I would love to hear your views and explanations
Well without knowing what happened to you today, it is difficult.

But lets try.

At some point you woke up. This is due to the need to sleep that provides your body time to repair your body and systems. It also allows your brain to repair itself.

Then I am guessing that you ate some food. Since we need energy to keep the systems moving, eating food gets broken down in our stomach and turns into the energy that allows us to move.

I figure that you have breathed a bit today. We breathe to capture oxygen, which helps us convert food into energy in our cells, and to get rid of carbon dioxide – the waste gas which is formed as this happens. Our lungs pump these gases in and out of our bodies, and help us dissolve them in and out of our blood.

At some point you had sat down on the computer. Because we are a social species. This medium allows us to use the large functional brains that we have to learn and continue to keep those synapsis firing. Your hands that are typing are another wonderful form of evolution. Your posable thumb and digits allow a dexterity that no other animal (I believe this may not be correct with some obscure animal) possesses. The fingers allow us to complete very complex tasks like typing. Not to mention picking through bones or pulling off berries one by one.

Now if you are reading this you are using eyes that may have evolved as early as squids if not earlier that allowed them to see light reflections of fish and other prey on the ocean floor.

Amazingly if you are not one of the few that are color blind, evolution helped us evolve further with a mutation that allowed for color sight. At first it allowed us to seek out prey and predators in the jungle and savannas but now is used to see the different greens on this screen and some dude in really stupid glasses.


Now can I say, or will I say that there is no god, no I wouldn't say that. There is still room for god. Plenty infact. But that doesn't mean that he has to fit into the bible that has been written and rewritten by man to fit their needs over the last few thousand years. It is just a form of social control at worst, and at best a way to give people comfort.

I just don't need that comfort. I take comfort in loving life, my family that is left, freinds, books, learning, and the world. This place is so facinating once you really look at it! Thinking of how much we are all interconnected to everything else. Being able to look at a bird and think about how similar we are. Even the comfort in death, because we all do die, that doesn;t mean that I will not be of use to life. I will always be apart of the universe. My body will decompose and feed other animals and that will feed other things, on and on until the sun explodes and send the parts that I helped make up into other planets where I will become part of that system, until the very end when everything is pulled into one huge mass of material and we are slowly pulled in to a tight mass and it happens all over again.

That is where god can exist for me, the why can belong to him, the how has too much evidence to belong to man made books.
 

hitch420

Well-Known Member
Sounds more like a cult ceremony than a church one (if there is really a difference). What you "experienced" was a group delusion, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was also some foul play involved to invoke that kind of behaviour from the congregation. I could make guesses as to the techniques used to do this, but it would only be conjecture on my part.

If I am wrong, I invite the holy spirit round to my house to invoke the same response from me. If I feel what you felt in the next 30 minutes, I will believe your experience was real, and will join you in preaching to the world.

Shouldn't be too hard for an omnipotent being to do, right?
If in your heart you truly mean that and not sarcasticly it will.
The sarcasum is the hard bit to get over lol
I wouldnt give god a time limit thats sort of telling him what to do. If you told someone in authority over you to do your will not theres they wouldnt take to kindly to that.

And the group decpetion thing i doubt it.
foul play?? are you suggesting drugs? or mind tricks or what ?
 

Nocturn3

Well-Known Member
If in your heart you truly mean that and not sarcasticly it will.
The sarcasum is the hard bit to get over lol
I wouldnt give god a time limit thats sort of telling him what to do. If you told someone in authority over you to do your will not theres they wouldnt take to kindly to that.
I'm not being sarcastic. I'm offering myself willingly to god as a servant. All he has to do is to mirror what he did to you, in an environment where I can be sure there is no foul play involved. That would be enough to convince me.

The time limit is important because then I can be sure there are no coincidences involved. If I have a wierd feeling in 6 months time, It could be anything, from food poisoning to a brain tumor. If it happens in the next 20 minutes, I will know that it relates to this conversation, and will therefore be convinced.

I'm sure god is above "not taking too kindly" to being told what to do. I have valid reasons for the timeframe, and i'm sure an all-knowing creator can understand this.

Feel free to pray for me, if you think it will help convince the holy spirit to come and visit me.
 

hitch420

Well-Known Member
Well without knowing what happened to you today, it is difficult.

But lets try.

At some point you woke up. This is due to the need to sleep that provides your body time to repair your body and systems. It also allows your brain to repair itself.

Then I am guessing that you ate some food. Since we need energy to keep the systems moving, eating food gets broken down in our stomach and turns into the energy that allows us to move.

I figure that you have breathed a bit today. We breathe to capture oxygen, which helps us convert food into energy in our cells, and to get rid of carbon dioxide – the waste gas which is formed as this happens. Our lungs pump these gases in and out of our bodies, and help us dissolve them in and out of our blood.

At some point you had sat down on the computer. Because we are a social species. This medium allows us to use the large functional brains that we have to learn and continue to keep those synapsis firing. Your hands that are typing are another wonderful form of evolution. Your posable thumb and digits allow a dexterity that no other animal (I believe this may not be correct with some obscure animal) possesses. The fingers allow us to complete very complex tasks like typing. Not to mention picking through bones or pulling off berries one by one.

Now if you are reading this you are using eyes that may have evolved as early as squids if not earlier that allowed them to see light reflections of fish and other prey on the ocean floor.

Amazingly if you are not one of the few that are color blind, evolution helped us evolve further with a mutation that allowed for color sight. At first it allowed us to seek out prey and predators in the jungle and savannas but now is used to see the different greens on this screen and some dude in really stupid glasses.


Now can I say, or will I say that there is no god, no I wouldn't say that. There is still room for god. Plenty infact. But that doesn't mean that he has to fit into the bible that has been written and rewritten by man to fit their needs over the last few thousand years. It is just a form of social control at worst, and at best a way to give people comfort.

I just don't need that comfort. I take comfort in loving life, my family that is left, freinds, books, learning, and the world. This place is so facinating once you really look at it! Thinking of how much we are all interconnected to everything else. Being able to look at a bird and think about how similar we are. Even the comfort in death, because we all do die, that doesn;t mean that I will not be of use to life. I will always be apart of the universe. My body will decompose and feed other animals and that will feed other things, on and on until the sun explodes and send the parts that I helped make up into other planets where I will become part of that system, until the very end when everything is pulled into one huge mass of material and we are slowly pulled in to a tight mass and it happens all over again.

That is where god can exist for me, the why can belong to him, the how has too much evidence to belong to man made books.
Wise words, unlike alot of athiest arguements that i have heard.
you dont rule out the possabilty of god, because you can't unless you know everything about everything.

Just to let you know i don't have a set mindset about evolution, infact i set up this thread to help further my opinion on somthing i couldn't careless about but it matters alot to my friends. who i am planning on showing who the big man in sky really is But not by arugment alone the biggest factor will be showing them x pills aren't near as good as the Holy spirit.
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
'"Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of
science. It is useless."'

I seriously fuckin doubt a real scientist said that, it sounds quote mined to me. Evolution is used daily. You know that flu jab you got last winter? You know why you had to get another one? Why it's different from the one you got last winter? Because influenza evolves...

I hate this 'microevolution/macroevolution' bullshit. It's like saying 'I can pick my nose for 1 second, but not for 10'. 'Macroevolution' is just 'Microevolution' given a larger timescale.
Why is there even a dispute about this, I read through only half of this forum and already got lost in hope of a good argument. Both sides have a lot of misguided information right from the get go.

I love science and right now im just going to bring up a little part of this thread that pissed me off. Micro and macro evolution are NOT THE SAME!! When someone says that they are revealing how uneducated they really are in Evolution. Or science in general. Micro is what is a proven FACT by our actual experiments and observations. It is when our genes are altered for its environment but only limited to what is already in our genes. Macro is putting a whole new piece into our genes and is where the whole believing in Evolution comes to play because they may say it happens but there is no facts other than saying thats the only explanation to our variety of species. IT IS NOT MICRO BUT IN A LARGER TIME SCALE, thats like me going saying Im going to put this nail in a coke bottle, couple days its going to be rusted away (FACT). Now lets let it sit for oh another million years and it will turn to aluminum. WHAT?! where would that come from? there isn't the right ionized elements in that bottle to create aluminum <-- there's your macro evolution. Its not proven but just a theory. Many literature even says its a fact which makes me want to run my nails on a chalkboard. There is no facts to back up one specie evolving to another, oh except there couple skeletons that have been resurrected from an area of 100m^2, Why? Is there so little skeletons to back a time zone that is in the millions. There should be thousands if not more of the "missing link" found and the "links" that supposedly have been found should have been replaced with a couple new fossils that maybe had all the bones in one burial area. The links are mutated chimps.
 

Nocturn3

Well-Known Member
Come on Nocturn, that's where the closed minded part comes into play. Saying shit like that gets a dispute no wheres. Insults are for the weak.
Umm, what? It wasn't even me you quoted.

As for the rest of your post, your points have been addressed repeatedly.

And "insults are for the weak"??? What is that all about lol.
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
Umm, what? It wasn't even me you quoted.

As for the rest of your post, your points have been addressed repeatedly.

And "insults are for the weak"??? What is that all about lol.
I actually meant to multi quote, the part about you was directed about the whole cult and having a religious experience, i deleted so it wouldn't be confusing and sorry if i brought up a already discussed part, i skimed through and thought there was nothin on it, my bad
 

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
I have never believed in evolution so yes you are right i do not understand it fully
This is all I had to see to know that reading further is a waste of time. The OP has NO idea what they are talking about. Here's an idea, LEARN about what you are talking about before trying to change other people's minds. There are volumes and volumes of books that PROVE evolution without a doubt. But you don't need a whole book. Just read the 16 pages in the link below and tell me you can still deny evolution. To think these same principles don't apply to humans is simply arrogant. You are not so special. We are all part of the Animal Kingdom. Get over yourself.

http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
This is all I had to see to know that reading further is a waste of time. The OP has NO idea what they are talking about. Here's an idea, LEARN about what you are talking about before trying to change other people's minds. There are volumes and volumes of books that PROVE evolution without a doubt. But you don't need a whole book. Just read the 16 pages in the link below and tell me you can still deny evolution. To think these same principles don't apply to humans is simply arrogant. You are not so special. We are all part of the Animal Kingdom. Get over yourself.

http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf
thx for giving me that link just to prove how right i am in macro bullshit. Did anyone read it? Just like a typical evolutionist they put it words that make it sound like Macro is a fact with out saying "fact". Because they all know it is not a fact, for all you lazy people out there its "proof" on macro evolution all is based off a flie that from a thousand years ago now have now got a dot on their wing that is miscoloured pigmintation which has helped it attract females. THATS FUCKIN MICRO EVOLUTION, our genes can easly change our pigmintation, look at all the human colours. Wheres the new element in the DNA?
 

mared juwan

Well-Known Member
thx for giving me that link just to prove how right i am in macro bullshit. Did anyone read it? Just like a typical evolutionist they put it words that make it sound like Macro is a fact with out saying "fact". Because they all know it is not a fact, for all you lazy people out there its "proof" on macro evolution all is based off a flie that from a thousand years ago now have now got a dot on their wing that is miscoloured pigmintation which has helped it attract females. THATS FUCKIN MICRO EVOLUTION, our genes can easly change our pigmintation, look at all the human colours. Wheres the new element in the DNA?

You seem to be the kind of person that will deny the Sun is hot unless you touch it with your hand. I'm all with the objectivity thing but the evidence is overwhelming. And what is this fly with a dot shit? Did YOU read the link?
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
Klassenkid, here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution

Hopefully, this will clear up your confusion on the subject.
:wall:
stop using Wikipedia as a reference, i could make that all say that Lucy was a dike if i wanted to, anybody could. So whats the chances of false info being on there?

The only reason they keep going with Macro evolution is because its the only ideology they have to fill in a huge blank without using the big book. They will replace it when they find something else with more evidence, which they are because of it being such a dead end. If you did read it tho you will notice they said i qoute

"Predictions of empirical data from the theory of common descent have been so consistent that biologists often refer to it as the "fact of evolution"."

Do you know why they refer to as "fact" like so, because they truly know it doesnt fit under the definition of "fact". Its just the most greatest thing they have for lead to creation of what we see today.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Not even the church will come out and use the word FACT when it comes to their own doctrine.

Adhering to a BELIEF not based on fact and then ranting that because science doesn't throw the word FACT around like a teenager at a mosh party, is the zenith of hypocrisy.
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
You seem to be the kind of person that will deny the Sun is hot unless you touch it with your hand. I'm all with the objectivity thing but the evidence is overwhelming. And what is this fly with a dot shit? Did YOU read the link?
Yeah i am not interested in most of it because i dont argue with it, i just read the one thing that I and so many other biologists believe to be just a possible theory and shouldn't be pushed so strong as being a fact (Macro-evo).

???? You dont know about the fruit fly that changed its pigmintation of a circular part of its wing? DID YOU READ IT?
 

Nocturn3

Well-Known Member
:wall:
stop using Wikipedia as a reference, i could make that all say that Lucy was a dike if i wanted to, anybody could. So whats the chances of false info being on there?.
Actually, wikipedia is a great reference, because it cites sources, and is peer-reviewed, to some degree. By giving you that article, I was under the mistaken impression that you would actually be bothered to check the sources it cites, which would save me from having to link to them individually, or quote them out of context.

Do you honestly think that if you edited the wiki pages on evolution, it would stay that way for long?
 
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