Democrat or Republican?

[Green Cross]

No, they're giving individuals CHOICE and freedom over their bodies.

But your argument started with "they'd be better off dead than poor" paraphrasing

You're an elitist who thinks he knows better who should live and who shouldn't

I believe it's the duty of every American to protect the sanctity of life (period). My life isn't any more valuable than an infant's, who was born as a result of rape or worse. People have a way of over coming their circumstances.

I suppose you believe illegal immigrants should be treated the same as law abiding tax paying citizens? just following your logic

 

[Operation 420]

But your argument started with "they'd be better off dead than poor" paraphrasing

You're an elitist who thinks he knows better who should live and who shouldn't

Exactly. Just like Kissinger said, "useless eaters". If you have even slightly differing ideologies, you might as well not even live.

 

[jrh72582]

But your argument started with "they'd be better off dead than poor" paraphrasing

You're an elitist who thinks he knows better who should live and who shouldn't

I believe it's the duty of every American to protect the sanctity of life (period). My life isn't any more valuable than an infant's, who was born as a result of rape or worse. People have a way of over coming their circumstances.

I suppose you believe illegal immigrants should be treated the same as law abiding tax paying citizens? just following your logic

What the hell are you talking about!?!?!?! My ideas offended you so much that you feel free to straw man me and attack me. Grow up! I have MY, I repeat MY, I repeat MY, I repeat MY, I repeat MY, I repeat MY, I repeat MY opinions. I didn't tell you to believe them. MY opinions. And don't put words in my mouth until you're intelligent enough to understand an argument.

You abortion people exist on the fringe. You are blinded by your passion for ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE value. Abortion will always remain legal in the US. I don't like the idea of abortion, but it's giving precedence to individuals. Kids dying of starvation and lack of health care concern me more, to be quite frank. So call me all the names you want. I still have my opinions and you have yours. Let's keep it that way.

 

[jrh72582]

No they're pushing their Eugenics agenda, because they have no regard for human life.

And welfare does nothing but encourage people to sit on their ass and wait for a check/food stamps in the mail.

Logical fallacy. Try again. Or do you know subscribe to objectively agreed upon rules of logic? Do you play by your own rules? If so, then there's no use in debating.

You really need formal training in debate.

 

[Operation 420]

Logical fallacy. Try again. Or do you know subscribe to objectively agreed upon rules of logic? Do you play by your own rules? If so, then there's no use in debating.

You really need formal training in debate.

All you do is insult people's intelligence without bringing anything to the discussion.

How the hell does welfare help people better themselves? Please explain.

 

[jrh72582]

All you do is insult people's intelligence without bringing anything to the discussion.

How the hell does welfare help people better themselves? Please explain.

THE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have to provide for the kids. If you staunchly believe abortion is wrong, then how can you neglect to feed, clothe, and educate a kid born to deadbeat welfare parents? The people on welfare may be lazy bums, but the KIDS are not to blame.

 

[Operation 420]

THE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have to provide for the kids. If you staunchly believe abortion is wrong, then how can you neglect to feed, clothe, and educate a kid born to deadbeat welfare parents? The people on welfare may be lazy bums, but the KIDS are not to blame.

And the welfare system promotes having kids in order to receive more benefits. It's a never ending loop of dependence that democrats created.

How about job training and assistance programs? Oh no, that would actually help people create something of their lives, and give their kids a role model to look up to.

Then the democrats would have less dependent people to vote them into office.

Can't have that though, now can we.

 

[jrh72582]

And the welfare system promotes having kids in order to receive more benefits. It's a never ending loop of dependence that democrats created.

How about job training and assistance programs? Oh no, that would actually help people create something of their lives, and give their kids a role model to look up to.

We have job training and assistance programs. And I understand your first point, but it's a necessary never-ending loop. Are you suggesting we tell the poor they can't have kids? Before I respond, I'll let you answer.

 

[SativaFan]

independent, because all the democratic represenatives are all about giving handouts to the lazy bottom feeders of society,i dont consider myself right wing enough to vote republican although i actually voted for mccain this past election because i had too much against obama (although he made the worst decision of his life by choosing Sarah Palin as his VP), everybody voted for Obama for all the wrong reasons. he automatically got the african american vote because they would all love to see the first black president in their lifetime,....obama spend his whole entire run for president preaching "CHANGE" and now we know that by change he actually means "socialism"

 

[Operation 420]

We have job training and assistance programs. And I understand your first point, but it's a necessary never-ending loop. Are you suggesting we tell the poor they can't have kids? Before I respond, I'll let you answer.

The welfare program needs an overhaul. It shouldn't be an option to get job training, it should be required.

 

[jrh72582]

The welfare program needs an overhaul. It shouldn't be an option to get job training, it should be required.

I think EVERY government program needs overhaul! Absolutely.

 

[Operation 420]

I think EVERY government program needs overhaul! Absolutely.

Agreed. I'm all for helping people, but eventually there comes a time when they need to help themselves. We just need to set up programs that will allow them to achieve that.

 

[jrh72582]

Agreed. I'm all for helping people, but eventually there comes a time when they need to help themselves. We just need to set up programs that will allow them to achieve that.

See? We've found common ground. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[hanimmal]

I am glad we all are in agreement about total rehaul!

I agree 100% with you Jhr.

Welfare is very important, for the kids. It is not designed for the people that get on it, it is for their children.

I grew up just poor enough to not be on welfare, but I know many that have. If that was not in place, they would not have any way to move up, and it would be third world countries on the streets, because poverty begets poverty.

If schools were not public then nobody would be able to have their kids go unless they had the money to pay for it. If they lived that long because of no health care. Then you have to wonder if on third world wages (because there would not be a min. wage) if they could afford food costs. So now that they are without education, they cannot get a good job so the cycle continues (on mass, there would always be exceptions to the rule).

So all these systems are in place to take care of the children, they can be somewhat healthy, have food with the stamp program that allows the people to get food, access to free public education so they have the opportunity to get out of the hole they were born into, then they can get a college education if they use the systems that are in place to the fullest and keep their nose in the books.

So now they can completely change their station in life from being a basically third world immigrant with nothing to show or anyway to get out, to a fully educated person with a great job and lots of room to grow. All because of the programs. Now when they get out they more than pay their part in taxes that can help out the next people have the opportunity to move up in life.

Will/Are these things always being taken advantage of, with no want to get off? Of Course. And it is horrid that people can sit there and milk the system, but there are not enough people to police the people as it is, so either you cut it all out, or you deal with the bloat.

But my reform here would be to have the people on welfare police the others on it. If you are not in school, then you need to work for the program even at home. They should all have a group of people they watch. So say I am on it I watch 6 people, someone else watches 6 people on and on. There should be overlap to be sure that people are not just randomly covering for eachother.

And abortion is a very important issue for me too. To take a persons choice away when it involves their own body is not a good idea. Do I think that people should treat their wombs like ear to a q-tip, no. But to tell them that they have to go through 9 months of perculating, then get their body torn open, and be stuck with a human life for the next 18 years because of a mistake is not a good idea.

Just like drugs, and what used to happen before when abortion is illegal, it will get worse if you ban it. Give women every reason to have the child (better adoption practices, more foster homes, better welfare system (nanny), ect), but in the end if they decide against all of it allow them to do what they feel is the best option.

 

[PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1]

I'm a registered democrat, and would never vote Republican, My choice, although the last 10 years all I see is Both sides gaining way to much power and not enough balance, So as I write This Today I really wish I could say Independent, but I can't I seen the 2 parties that rule and I lean to the Left. It's to bad that there has to be one or two parties and the 3rd party favors one of the two! Just remeber "United we stand, Divided we fall",,,,all I see is the later,,,Comn' can't we all just get along. Peace.

 

[jrh72582]

I am glad we all are in agreement about total rehaul!

I agree 100% with you Jhr.

Welfare is very important, for the kids. It is not designed for the people that get on it, it is for their children.

I grew up just poor enough to not be on welfare, but I know many that have. If that was not in place, they would not have any way to move up, and it would be third world countries on the streets, because poverty begets poverty.

If schools were not public then nobody would be able to have their kids go unless they had the money to pay for it. If they lived that long because of no health care. Then you have to wonder if on third world wages (because there would not be a min. wage) if they could afford food costs. So now that they are without education, they cannot get a good job so the cycle continues (on mass, there would always be exceptions to the rule).

So all these systems are in place to take care of the children, they can be somewhat healthy, have food with the stamp program that allows the people to get food, access to free public education so they have the opportunity to get out of the hole they were born into, then they can get a college education if they use the systems that are in place to the fullest and keep their nose in the books.

So now they can completely change their station in life from being a basically third world immigrant with nothing to show or anyway to get out, to a fully educated person with a great job and lots of room to grow. All because of the programs. Now when they get out they more than pay their part in taxes that can help out the next people have the opportunity to move up in life.

Will/Are these things always being taken advantage of, with no want to get off? Of Course. And it is horrid that people can sit there and milk the system, but there are not enough people to police the people as it is, so either you cut it all out, or you deal with the bloat.

But my reform here would be to have the people on welfare police the others on it. If you are not in school, then you need to work for the program even at home. They should all have a group of people they watch. So say I am on it I watch 6 people, someone else watches 6 people on and on. There should be overlap to be sure that people are not just randomly covering for eachother.

And abortion is a very important issue for me too. To take a persons choice away when it involves their own body is not a good idea. Do I think that people should treat their wombs like ear to a q-tip, no. But to tell them that they have to go through 9 months of perculating, then get their body torn open, and be stuck with a human life for the next 18 years because of a mistake is not a good idea.

Just like drugs, and what used to happen before when abortion is illegal, it will get worse if you ban it. Give women every reason to have the child (better adoption practices, more foster homes, better welfare system (nanny), ect), but in the end if they decide against all of it allow them to do what they feel is the best option.

Well-spoken, as usual.

 

[Operation 420]

Well, I don't agree with abortion, but unfortunately it is a part of our society now. If it were illegal, we would have back alley abortions that would put womens lives at risk.

Women that use abortion as birth control are ridiculous though. There should be a limit of abortions you can have before being forced to use birth control. People need to learn to take responsibility for their actions.

 

[hanimmal]

There already kind of is one. Nature.

After a couple/few abortions usually womens insides are so messed up that they can no longer conceive.

I wouldn't mind a three strikes policy with it, but can you imagine how hard of a sell that would be.

 

[Operation 420]

There already kind of is one. Nature.

After a couple/few abortions usually womens insides are so messed up that they can no longer conceive.

I wouldn't mind a three strikes policy with it, but can you imagine how hard of a sell that would be.

It would have women's rights groups up in arms for sure. Maybe they could push the morality issue to sell it. It would be difficult though.

 

[ViRedd]

Abortion is a violation of the sanctity of individual rights; the right to life. It is the destruction of pure, innocent life; the ultimate sin against The Creator. It is the continuation of a slave mentality which speaks to some lives being expendable over the lives of others based upon convenience/inconvenience. It is akin to cannabalism.

The poor, as Christ said, will always be with us. And yes, we are our brother's keepers, but does that mean that our brother's of lesser means should be taken care of through forced charity, where the rights of others are violated at the point of government's gun if necessary? Forced charity is NOT charity, it is theft, pure and simple. All charity should be voluntary and from the heart, not based upon fear and cohersion. Government is force ... and nothing more.

Vi