I have my suspicions, but def. need peoples opinion

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inquisitivesob

Member
What STRAIN are you growing? Sour diesel
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? ~ five weeks
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetative
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) foxfarm

What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? Botanicare pro blend ½ strength.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? dunno
What is the pH of the "Tank"? 6-6.8
When was your last watering? 2 days ago
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) four days ago
What size bulb are you using? 1 250-watters
What is the distance to the canopy? 12" from the glass
What is your RH Factor? 30
What is the canopy temperature? 85 degrees
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) Not sure what the night temp is--probably mid 60s this time of year
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 160 cfm exhaust w/scrubber 2 80cfm intakes(fresh air).
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? On some of them, yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? It's ~220PPM out of the tap
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? Yes.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? 1/2water ½ alcohol with soap.
Are plant's infected with pest's? no
 

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growone

Well-Known Member
real good documentation of your problem
unfortunately, not obvious what issue is - nothing in your description stands out
looks like some kind of nute lock - ph measures of 6 to 6.8 are pretty wide - maybe ph has varied a bit too much
 
F

Fallen Buckshot

Guest
in soil it shouldnt be getting any lockout other than minors at that range .. could be a deficiency since hes only using half strength nutes
 
D

dbo24242

New Member
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) foxfarm is a brand that makes a lot of products.....
What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? Botanicare pro blend ½ strength organic?
Is your water HARD or SOFT? It's ~220PPM out of the tap almost too hard, needs to be fixed with ro or filtered water.

If it isn't temporary, I'm thinking your tap water is too high PPM and too high of pH and the buffers in the nutrients can't properly pH it.
 
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inquisitivesob

Member
dbo24242 said:
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) foxfarm is a brand that makes a lot of products.....
What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? Botanicare pro blend ½ strength organic?
Is your water HARD or SOFT? It's ~220PPM out of the tap almost too hard, needs to be fixed with ro or filtered water.

If it isn't temporary, I'm thinking your tap water is too high PPM and too high of pH and the buffers in the nutrients can't properly pH it.
Click to expand...
sorry...should have been more specific.
foxfarm ocean soil...

I'm not using the organic blend from botanicare. It's their Pro Blend Formulas.

as for the water, straight from tap its alkaline @ around 220ppm(from local water report).
i put it through a 10 stage filter (next step would be RO system) and the water gets closer to neutral pH.
http://www.onlinefitness.com/product.cfm?pr=3072
as for the ppm on this water, i don't know...
i add 4 drops of pH down to get the water to around 6.5 ~6.8<-- that is for watering days.
for fert days, i usually just add the liquid fert first, do pH test, then adjust accordingly.
i alternate between watering to fert. every 3 days.

nuting up slowly. 3/4 strength next time.

i'm suspecting that it's either magnesium def or manganese def. i think its mag def since there intreveinal burning (rusty spots, necrotic spots)....

the filter can't get the ppm so low that there is a mag/mn def? can it?

oh, attached is an overall shot (its in a two gal pot)

opinions welcome.
 

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dbo24242

New Member
ok. well ocean forest is strong soil I know some people only use it for transplanting and flowering and especially if you're feeding when watering it could be burn. that plant looks nute burned to me.

 
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growone

Well-Known Member
mag is possible, but seems unlikely in your soil - that soil has everything you need
simplest explanations are usually the best, the most common problems are ph/lockup and nute burn
straight water sounds like the better choice
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
growone said:
mag is possible, but seems unlikely in your soil - that soil has everything you need
simplest explanations are usually the best, the most common problems are ph/lockup and nute burn
straight water sounds like the better choice
Click to expand...
I agree. But also know most water that hard is high in iron. Too much iron can lock out mg. I would just water for a bit and watch. Keep the def issue on the backburner though. Anything is possible. Good Luck!
 
ref

ref

Active Member
brother, i had the same problem. I would say its your ph. try bringing the ph to 6.4 and try to KEEP it like that for every watering and feeding. Now, you said you add water then just throw your nutes in? I would adjust the ph before throwing the nutes into the water and then after you do that adjust it again. make sure you "cultivate" the soil.. i think thats the words :) to loosen it up before watering. i hope this helps !!
 
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inquisitivesob

Member
growone said:
mag is possible, but seems unlikely in your soil - that soil has everything you need
simplest explanations are usually the best, the most common problems are ph/lockup and nute burn
straight water sounds like the better choice
Click to expand...

Well, the reason I think its mg def. Is because
A. The water is hard. More calc = mag lockout
B. The baby leaves and older leaves are dying. The
Leaves at the top are staying healthy.

Any other opinions are appreciated!
And for those who have replied, thanks!
 
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growone

Well-Known Member
inquisitivesob said:
Well, the reason I think its mg def. Is because
A. The water is hard. More calc = mag lockout
B. The baby leaves and older leaves are dying. The
Leaves at the top are staying healthy.

Any other opinions are appreciated!
And for those who have replied, thanks!
Click to expand...
Quite possible, I think it's less likely. When you adjusted the ph, you probably made the calcium soluble. The acid in the ph adjuster probably made the calcium into a soluble salt. This is less likely to cause lockup, but certainly not impossible

The tough part with diagnosis is some symptoms are so general. A number of things can cause a die off of lower leaves and moving up the plant.

And the real fun part is problems can be a combination, so in the end your best judgment is the way to go.
 
brasmith

brasmith

Well-Known Member
The problem is your ph. It should be 5.8 for hydro. 6.8 is ph for soil growing. Above 6.8 in soil then ther is lockout of cal-mag. Above 5.8-6.0 cal-mag gets locked out in hydro. Cal-mag issues will cause slow growth and diminished yeild if not corrected and then maintained. luck
 
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inquisitivesob

Member
PH is good @ 6.5-6.8 for my soil grow. I don't think its pH. I have two going so, ill give one the epsom and see what happens. But can I add epsom salt to the nut'd water?
 
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growone

Well-Known Member
you can, keep it with in reason - a little goes a long ways
1/4 tsp per gallon of water i think is the dose
 
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dbo24242

New Member
as you can see the reason you try and avoid going above 6.5 is the rapid decline in phosphorous availability. manganese too is tapering off.

perhaps flush and refeed with partial strength nutrients, dep on soil.
 
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