LED grow lights?

Dystopia

Dystopia

Active Member
Those little LED panels will NOT give you satisfactory results. You can grow with LEDs, but they need to be much more powerful (and therefore more expensive) then those panels. In my opinion, the current cost factor for powerful enough LEDs to grow MJ eliminates them as a reasonable alternative for most people at this time. But the technology is rapidly evolving...
 
potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
Bullcrap they don't work!!! I'll never use my MH again for vegging plants - LED's only! I've got CFL's (the professional ones), T5's, MH, HPS and LED's. I have never been so amazed at anything I've done for my plants as these LED lights. You will be floored by how well they work, how cheap they are to run and how cool they are. Anybody that tells you that LED's do not work has never used them - I have and they work amazingly well.
 
majek

majek

Well-Known Member
i've seen good results with LEDs but more light penetration = more growth. HPS puts out the most lumens for the price
 
Dystopia

Dystopia

Active Member
potpimp said:
Bullcrap they don't work!!! I'll never use my MH again for vegging plants - LED's only! I've got CFL's (the professional ones), T5's, MH, HPS and LED's. I have never been so amazed at anything I've done for my plants as these LED lights. You will be floored by how well they work, how cheap they are to run and how cool they are. Anybody that tells you that LED's do not work has never used them - I have and they work amazingly well.
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I never said LED's wouldn't work, quite the opposite. I said the one he was looking at wouldn't work satisfactorily (it's those panels that give LEDs a bad rep), and that the cost of an LED system that would work makes them unattractive for most average growers.

I do have a 100 watt LED system, and you're right - it's does work adequately for vegging, but lacks the penetration (lumens) required for flowering. If I could afford a system that used 5 watt LEDs then I would consider using it for flowering.

As I said, this technology is evolving rapidly and I can certainly see it becoming the predominate lighting solution as they become cheaper and more powerful...:peace:
 
potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
Dystopia said:
I never said LED's wouldn't work, quite the opposite. I said the one he was looking at wouldn't work satisfactorily (it's those panels that give LEDs a bad rep), and that the cost of an LED system that would work makes them unattractive for most average growers.

I do have a 100 watt LED system, and you're right - it's does work adequately for vegging, but lacks the penetration (lumens) required for flowering. If I could afford a system that used 5 watt LEDs then I would consider using it for flowering.

As I said, this technology is evolving rapidly and I can certainly see it becoming the predominate lighting solution as they become cheaper and more powerful...:peace:
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I must have misunderstood you Dystopia; sorry about that. The 50w systems are fantastic for vegging and do a great job on plants that are 2' or shorter. I would still use my HPS for flowering; I'm sure it would pack on a lot more weight with the HPS. You can buy 50w systems on fleabay for about $50. I paid $400 for 3 panels about 18 months ago.
 
Boulderheads

Boulderheads

Well-Known Member
Hey guys maybe I can add to this a little bit. I am just researching the LED's and the benefit behind them is they generate the specific wavelengths that allow photosynthesis to take place in the most efficient manner. check out my journal if you want, I have a post in there about HID vs. Fluorescent.

I just recently read through this journal
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/192292-someguys-perpetual-parabolic-scrog-cabinet.html

This shows how to benefit from each different light setups characteristics.

Fluorescent T5HO capable of producing 5000lumens and staying 1inch from tops on a flat Scrog.

400wattHPS with a parabolic scrog which follows the light dispersion of the HPS so that all tops remain 1foot?? or so away from the lamp.

It is a really cool side by side comparison on how to maximize the potential for each lamp setup. It would be nice to see someone scrog with an LED panel. Not sure how big these panels are so light coverage might be an issue for trying the same technique to compare all three light setups. I have seen some pretty big claims on HTGsupply website for these panels being able to replace 2X1000 watt HPS for the big panel they offer that only runs on 600 watts.

I understand the concept for why LED should work better but nothing beats a side by side comparison. If anyone has LED's and HID's and Flouros and is willing to recreate an ideal controlled experiment that would be awesome. Hopefully someone out there has the resources to pull this off.

Cheers, the boulderman
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Nah, LED's are expensive and don't produce anything. I've seen them used countless times by my moronic friends trying to prove they work. They worked adequately for veg, but then so do CFL's and loads of other cheaper alternatives.

They don't flower for shit and are completely worthless in that respect. If you are really into wasting money and not so much into growing ganja then buy LED's.

Or take the advice of the guy with a link to half a grow journal (guessing it stopped when his plants died?) in which he switched to HPS after naively believing he could finish it with LED's.

I don't know why this comes up every day and every day we gotta shoot it down. Search youtube for side by side comparisions, they are out there and they show it all. Basically LED's are so poor at growing bud that you don't even need a side by side comparison. The finished product from LED's is so weak that there's not even a comparison.

It's not exactly a close second place to HID.
 
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Defcon9

Well-Known Member
High times did a controlled test of the UFO from HID Hut. The set up was one res for all the plants. One under a 400W HPS, One Under a 600W HPS and one under the 90W LED UFO. All sectioned off with black and white to keep lights to themselves. All vegged and flowered under their respective lights.

Results were 400W had the lowest yeild. Yes the LED beat it by something like 12% by weight. The 600W yeilded the most by I can't remember how much if any one has the issue from 2 months ago maybe they can pull it up for you. The interesting thing though was that even though the 600W had a higher yeild, the LED had the higher yeild per watt. Based on power consumption the LED was the best. That was before they made some changes. They released the enhanced spectrum version which is supposed to be better.

So under a controlled test, the LED is really, realy good. Like Dystopia said though, the cost is very high and for the average grower. For the average grower a HPS set up is better, unless you have a heat problem either cops flying over or just heat in general. I think the regular UFO is like $499, or something and $599 for the enhanced spectrum and the super Nova (270W?) Version is over a $1000 and the Super NOva enhanced spectrum is over $1300. (Enhanced spectrum lets you adjust the spectrum for veg and flowering.

Cost vs neccecity needs to be weighed out. I use all T5sHO right now due to constant cop choppers overhead looking for grow houses. I want to switch to LEDs because I know they are better.

Oh, I believe high times also stated the big problem with LEDs was penetration. I believe that is why there is the Octopus attachment for it. Again though Keep adding the $$$. 8X extra bulbs at $30 to $90 each adds up really fast.
 
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Defcon9

Well-Known Member
Oh, from what I know, you have to actually get good LEDs as there are a lot of shit ones out there. I can only tell you what I know from the High Times test of the UFO as for all the others out there, like people say they might be no good for flowering.
 
Boulderheads

Boulderheads

Well-Known Member
Not to bash your friends but if they are moronic, then maybe they just don't have the right set up working with those lights. Different techniques produce different results, and maybe these lights work very well for someone interested in SCROG or SOG, or dwarf strains that autoflower....

I am not trying to bring up a repetitive issue, but I have a good feeling LED's will be around in 20 years...prob not the same for HID. And not just for growing but lighting in general. Some of those LED flashlights are super bright!!! I have seen it in traffic lights, and once price drops it will become a commercial application. Anything to save money over the long run. 100,000 hr bulb life. Anyway, sorry to make everyone talk about this issue again, but I would just like to see some actual documented results. If anyone can do that I will be quiet and leave well enough alone
 
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Defcon9

Well-Known Member
Boulderheads said:
Not to bash your friends but if they are moronic, then maybe they just don't have the right set up working with those lights. Different techniques produce different results, and maybe these lights work very well for someone interested in SCROG or SOG, or dwarf strains that autoflower....

I am not trying to bring up a repetitive issue, but I have a good feeling LED's will be around in 20 years...prob not the same for HID. And not just for growing but lighting in general. Some of those LED flashlights are super bright!!! I have seen it in traffic lights, and once price drops it will become a commercial application. Anything to save money over the long run. 100,000 hr bulb life. Anyway, sorry to make everyone talk about this issue again, but I would just like to see some actual documented results. If anyone can do that I will be quiet and leave well enough alone
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I agree. LEDs are the future at the moment. Eveything sucks when it first comes out, look at computers. 10 years ago to today. not even the same league. They have a long way to go but are on the way. If they can get better penetration, like I said they have the octopus out, then they will be amazing. ScrOG should be amazing. I don't know if they can actually make the bulb itself penetrate more but it should be really interesting over the next few years to watch the technology improve and get out of it's infancy stage and start to mature into a real competitor at a resonable price.

Like I said in my post High Times used an experienced grower in a very controlled enviroment and proved they worked, and worked really well all the way through flowering.
 
Boulderheads

Boulderheads

Well-Known Member
Defcon, great post buddy. Do you know how far away the LED was and what the coverage is like? did they compare those aspects as well??? just curious..

Brings up a great point, with weak penetration the canopy control is critical. But they also produce light spectrum which the plant uses most efficiently so that even though it is weaker it would still be more efficient to the plant, this would allow you to pull light further widening your coverage and still receiving optimal results.

I think there are many X factors to be taken into account. Certainly the price makes this hard for most growers to think of as a logical step. But just look at the i-phone when it came out. 300 bucks.. now 99.. give it a couple years and I think you will see this become more mainstream. Bravo to the pioneers out there adopting this tech early.
 
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Defcon9

Well-Known Member
Boulderheads said:
Defcon, great post buddy. Do you know how far away the LED was and what the coverage is like? did they compare those aspects as well??? just curious..

Brings up a great point, with weak penetration the canopy control is critical. But they also produce light spectrum which the plant uses most efficiently so that even though it is weaker it would still be more efficient to the plant, this would allow you to pull light further widening your coverage and still receiving optimal results.

I think there are many X factors to be taken into account. Certainly the price makes this hard for most growers to think of as a logical step. But just look at the i-phone when it came out. 300 bucks.. now 99.. give it a couple years and I think you will see this become more mainstream. Bravo to the pioneers out there adopting this tech early.
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The flaw with that test might be they only grew one plant. But it still proved a point. I think they had it as close as possible and with the almost no heat they can get really close. I missed buying that magazine, I wish someone here had it and they could get that info for us. I really want to switch once I can afford the Super Nova. Check HID Hut I think they give the coverage area. I think (Don't quote me) the UFO is like a 3 X3 area and the Super Nova is like a 5 X 5 or something like that.

I was just happy they had a controlled test to put the argument to rest (although it won't) and actually put out actual evidence from no offence to all of us but real growers that are way more experinced than us. I bet they were just happy to play with something new and you'll start to see a lot more LEDs in the future being used by all the big name growers.
 
Boulderheads

Boulderheads

Well-Known Member
Just think of how big a grow house could be with LED panels. Hardly any power usage, you could rent out an old mansion somewhere in the country and set up a huge SOG with auto feeders and just have at it :fire::fire::fire:

Just need the capital to start.. better start investing in LED technology now before every other grower in the world finds out
 
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Defcon9

Well-Known Member
Boulderheads said:
Just think of how big a grow house could be with LED panels. Hardly any power usage, you could rent out an old mansion somewhere in the country and set up a huge SOG with auto feeders and just have at it :fire::fire::fire:

Just need the capital to start.. better start investing in LED technology now before every other grower in the world finds out
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Count me in.
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
I definitely agree it could be that my friends are morons. They do have a hard time getting it right, but one of the things they get wrong (amongst others) is growing under LED's.

I agree that in 20 years LED's will probably stand alone as the main source of lighting both for growing and regular household lighting, but here in 2009 it ain't there.

Growing single plants under a 400w light and comparing it to a UFO growing one plant doesn't prove anything.

If you don't believe the experienced growers here you are always welcome to go try them both out. They really don't compare.

Right now HID just smashes the LED's in production and seeing one grow that shows different won't change my mind. The thousands of grows I've seen with HID's will be hard to overcome with 1 side by side comparison of growing single individual plants.

I've also seen side by side grows with 400w HPS vs LED's and the HPS finished flowering faster and produced more bud.
 
D

Defcon9

Well-Known Member
laserbrn said:
I definitely agree it could be that my friends are morons. They do have a hard time getting it right, but one of the things they get wrong (amongst others) is growing under LED's.

I agree that in 20 years LED's will probably stand alone as the main source of lighting both for growing and regular household lighting, but here in 2009 it ain't there.

Growing single plants under a 400w light and comparing it to a UFO growing one plant doesn't prove anything.

If you don't believe the experienced growers here you are always welcome to go try them both out. They really don't compare.

Right now HID just smashes the LED's in production and seeing one grow that shows different won't change my mind. The thousands of grows I've seen with HID's will be hard to overcome with 1 side by side comparison of growing single individual plants.

I've also seen side by side grows with 400w HPS vs LED's and the HPS finished flowering faster and produced more bud.
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I think we can all agree that LEDs do have a long way to grow. Personally for me like I said easlier I have to be careful of cops so LED might be a good light for me. I have T5s for now, but LEDs might be a good addition or replacement for them.

Like I said I'm not sure how flawed the results were, it just shows that LEDs are possible to use. They might be good for 2 or three plants or a ScrOG but not for 3+ plants I don't know. but in the future it will be very interesting.
 
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