Why are Americans so afraid of Socialism?

[bgmike8]

what exactly did bush do in opposition to the people?

 

[jrh72582]

what exactly did bush do in opposition to the people?

Is this a serious question? Before I take the time to respond with the frighteningly long list of Bush's stubborn disregard for the people, I honestly want to know whether you're being serious, or in fact facetious.

If you are being serious, have you ever been outside of Crawford, Texas? Bush may be worshipped down there, but in the rest of the world, he's recognized as the incompetent, warmongering, fuck up that he is.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Is this a serious question? Before I take the time to respond with the frighteningly long list of Bush's stubborn disregard for the people, I honestly want to know whether you're being serious, or in fact facetious.

If you are being serious, have you ever been outside of Crawford, Texas? Bush may be worshipped down there, but in the rest of the world, he's recognized as the incompetent, warmongering, fuck up that he is.

Speaking of serious statements...

Care to explain how Bush is an incompetent, war-mongering fuck up?

Or should your statements be taken cum grana salis?

 

[CrackerJax]

Yeah, Bush was one heck of a war monger. Let's see, the UN signed off on it, Congress signed off on it, the majority of the American people signed off on it.

Let's see, that leaves the left wingnuts and the mainstream media.


You can't have Bush be a complete dumb arse in one post and then a supreme conspiracy spinner in the next....

 

[dontexist21]

what a jerk. i should pay for your education? fuck you you should pay for my whiskey then.

on second thought maybe i will pay for your education so you will know that you are wasting everyones time when you try to differentiate socialism from communism.

the first post says that smart driven people cant get an education, bullshit

it makes me sad to be a stoner sometimes. all these stoners dont have a problem giving more power to the government. look what the government has done when its not a complete fucking communism. you think the government will make things better? do they teach coommon sense at colleges? i guess not.

look at all the socialist,communist, statist countries that will hang a mother fucker for possesion. but you can get hospital treatment for free if there isnt too long of a waitlist .

look at these fuckers in iran. they are out there right now ready to die for what we are so willing to give to the first charismatic mullato to offer a little hope.

Have you ever lived at the bottom of the ladder, I have. And its very fucking hard to bring yourself up. My parents were lucky, and I was lucky to have them. Just because you have the drive and brains does not always mean you can achieve what you are capable of. Not saying that is a excuse for not trying, I have worked my ass off to get to where I am now, but why should a education bankrupt a family? Or make people go into deep debt for the rest of their lives? America need more educated people to compete in the global work force. We need more doctors, teachers, scientist, engineers, or even more of our jobs are going to out sourced. A country that does not educate its people its doomed to fail. We need programs which allow kids to get a higher education and pursue these fields, after that they give a certain number a years back to the country. Such as if you are a doctor you can work in community hospitals. I would not mind having a cheaper education then paying back the country with service.

 

[CrackerJax]

There has never been so much education available....EVER!!! This land abounds with opportunities (until recently, ahem), but success is never guaranteed.

There is just no way to make life fair, unless everyone suffers equally, and no one achieves. That is socialism.

 

[kubrickzghost]

what exactly did bush do in opposition to the people?

What did Bush do against the will of the people? He gave his buddies on Wall Street $300billion in TARP money, and now no one can account for that $300billion Bush gave them. Your money was distributed to the top 1%, and no one knows where it went. They can find a guy who owes $200 to the IRS, but not $300bn in embezzled tax dollars. And NOTHING is being said, no questions are being asked... $300bn- Gone.

Something's up. None of this makes any sense, and it has me thinking they know something we don't.

 

[dontexist21]

There has never been so much education available....EVER!!! This land abounds with opportunities (until recently, ahem), but success is never guaranteed.

There is just no way to make life fair, unless everyone suffers equally, and no one achieves. That is socialism.

Its there but expensive as hell, and my point is that America as a whole is behind in educating our citizens. Its a problem that needs to be fixed. What is wrong with people paying back the country with service to the country for a certain amount of years IF THEY CHOOSE to take that program.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Its there but expensive as hell, and my point is that America as a whole is behind in educating our citizens. Its a problem that needs to be fixed. What is wrong with people paying back the country with service to the country for a certain amount of years IF THEY CHOOSE to take that program.

Expensive as hell, if you don't look at all your options. A community college runs less than $2,000 a year, if you can't spare that much from your income, then you obviously don't place any value on yourself or your education, and thus deserve neither.

There's always people that make the system work through them. Whether it means working two jobs to pay for schooling, or working overtime. The attacks on the current system fail when examined.

Then there are also people who have worked their way through college while receiving help. So all that is required is getting off of one's ass, ceasing with the self-destructive "oh pity me" excuses and finding that help, or making it for one's self.

Besides, if you just hand it to them there is still no guarantee that they will leave their lazy ways and not just flunk school while whining about how "it was rigged against them" because they didn't have any idea what the words being used meant. That's what dictionaries and other basic reference materials are for.

The only guarantee of Socialism is the impoverishment of any nation that uses it, with the enrichment of bureaucrats and the party "elite." Who typically had everything handed to them on a silver spoon to an extent that would make any one that's worked even a day in their life embarassed.

More importantly is the fact that the public school system is inefficient, wasteful and laced with failure. Inefficient, in that there are school administrators making $300,000, which also ties into being wasteful. Laced with failure in that the longer a US Citizen is involved with the public school system the farther down the international ratings they fall. I personally blame teachers that view it as nothing more than a convenient career path, or a convenient bucket for them to brainwash people who are incapable of reaching their own decisions wit their garbage political ideology. I also blame school administrators who believe that they should get $300,000 a year when in the private sector they'd be lucky to clear $20,000 per annum based on how little value their jobs actually provide to the school system.

Then there is the increased fascist approach being taken in the schools. No, the public school system demonstrates its socialist tendencies and the desire of its supporters to enslave the nation little by little through brainwashing the youth into supporting it on a daily basis. One need to do nothing more than surf the news for recent molestation of students by pedophilic teachers, encroachment upon the freedom of speech and expression, and a mentality that does not permit individualism.

The public school system is a joke and a failure that has been getting money thrown at it by politicians in return for their votes for the last thirty years. The only true solution would be to privatize the entire corruption-ridden, vote-selling lot of those looters, thieves, embezzlers and child-molesters.

 

[dontexist21]

Expensive as hell, if you don't look at all your options. A community college runs less than $2,000 a year, if you can't spare that much from your income, then you obviously don't place any value on yourself or your education, and thus deserve neither.

There's always people that make the system work through them. Whether it means working two jobs to pay for schooling, or working overtime. The attacks on the current system fail when examined.

Then there are also people who have worked their way through college while receiving help. So all that is required is getting off of one's ass, ceasing with the self-destructive "oh pity me" excuses and finding that help, or making it for one's self.

Besides, if you just hand it to them there is still no guarantee that they will leave their lazy ways and not just flunk school while whining about how "it was rigged against them" because they didn't have any idea what the words being used meant. That's what dictionaries and other basic reference materials are for.

The only guarantee of Socialism is the impoverishment of any nation that uses it, with the enrichment of bureaucrats and the party "elite." Who typically had everything handed to them on a silver spoon to an extent that would make any one that's worked even a day in their life embarassed.

More importantly is the fact that the public school system is inefficient, wasteful and laced with failure. Inefficient, in that there are school administrators making $300,000, which also ties into being wasteful. Laced with failure in that the longer a US Citizen is involved with the public school system the farther down the international ratings they fall. I personally blame teachers that view it as nothing more than a convenient career path, or a convenient bucket for them to brainwash people who are incapable of reaching their own decisions wit their garbage political ideology. I also blame school administrators who believe that they should get $300,000 a year when in the private sector they'd be lucky to clear $20,000 per annum based on how little value their jobs actually provide to the school system.

Then there is the increased fascist approach being taken in the schools. No, the public school system demonstrates its socialist tendencies and the desire of its supporters to enslave the nation little by little through brainwashing the youth into supporting it on a daily basis. One need to do nothing more than surf the news for recent molestation of students by pedophilic teachers, encroachment upon the freedom of speech and expression, and a mentality that does not permit individualism.

The public school system is a joke and a failure that has been getting money thrown at it by politicians in return for their votes for the last thirty years. The only true solution would be to privatize the entire corruption-ridden, vote-selling lot of those looters, thieves, embezzlers and child-molesters.

How would parents working 3 jobs just to keep food on the table going to pay for private schools, which some cost as much as college? There are public institutions that work, I went to public school and got a decent education. Plenty of kids in my school went to some of the top schools in the nation. There are ways to fix the system, its just requires common sense. Its not all the teachers fault, many are forced to teach to standardized test, which should also be thrown out. Politician's instead of looking at the real problem only ignore them and make up bullshit solutions. There are pedophiles in private institutions to. Most teachers in the public sector are also under paid. I had some teachers that barely got by, then went out of their ways to buy supplies just because the school was under funded at times. Not every school in the country is funded equally which is a major part of the problem. What kind of employer is going to take me if they only see community college, not the ones that pay well. Who said I need pity I work my ass off to pay for college, now that tuition is going up again, I am taking another semester off to pay for school. No system is perfect, but the current system for higher education is broken.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

How would a parents working 3 jobs just to keep food on the table pay for it? There are public institutions that work, I went to public school and got a decent education. Plenty of kids in my school went to some of the top schools in the nation. There are ways to fix the system, its just requires common sense. Its not all the teachers fault, many are forced to teach to standardized test, which should also be thrown out. Politician's instead of looking at the real problem only ignore them and make up bullshit solutions. There are pedophiles in private institutions to. Most teachers in the public sector are also under paid. I had some teachers that barely got by, then went out of their ways to buy supplies just because the school was under funded at times. Not every school in the country is funded equally which is a major part of the problem.

Underpaid, seems to me they are getting what they deserve, as all they turn out are myrmidons that believe in Socialism.

Of course there are good teachers in the school system but they are few (and getting fewer) and far (and getting farther) between.

Standardized test, courtesy of the Federal Department of Education, which apparently you support giving yet more funding.

As far as the lack of equal funding, that's just a result of the fact that the successful areas will have more money to build better schools. The success of past generations used to establish a firm foundation to ensure continued success. What you are seeking is to enslave those that weren't afraid of taking self-responsibility for themselves to those that do.

You throw out a situation of some one supporting three kids. Seeing as how I obviously didn't get the pleasure of having the sex, why should I have to deal with the displeasure of having to help them? Their lack of self-responsibility is a failure on their part, not on any one else's part. Any attempt to fix the innercities would have to start by teaching them to be mature responsible individuals instead of self-centered egotists who want everything handed to them on a silver-platter like they believe the middle and upper classes have it handed to them. The middle and upper classes mostly don't have it handed to them on a silver-platter, and those that do rarely have money for longer than three generations, as it is squandered through lack of personal responsibility.

Success breeds success, and punishing success is the irrational policy of those that are full of envy and jealousy that there are people that are better than them, or more responsible, or more mature.

 

[dontexist21]

Underpaid, seems to me they are getting what they deserve, as all they turn out are myrmidons that believe in Socialism.

Of course there are good teachers in the school system but they are few (and getting fewer) and far (and getting farther) between.

Standardized test, courtesy of the Federal Department of Education, which apparently you support giving yet more funding.

As far as the lack of equal funding, that's just a result of the fact that the successful areas will have more money to build better schools. The success of past generations used to establish a firm foundation to ensure continued success. What you are seeking is to enslave those that weren't afraid of taking self-responsibility for themselves to those that do.

You throw out a situation of some one supporting three kids. Seeing as how I obviously didn't get the pleasure of having the sex, why should I have to deal with the displeasure of having to help them? Their lack of self-responsibility is a failure on their part, not on any one else's part. Any attempt to fix the innercities would have to start by teaching them to be mature responsible individuals instead of self-centered egotists who want everything handed to them on a silver-platter like they believe the middle and upper classes have it handed to them. The middle and upper classes mostly don't have it handed to them on a silver-platter, and those that do rarely have money for longer than three generations, as it is squandered through lack of personal responsibility.

Success breeds success, and punishing success is the irrational policy of those that are full of envy and jealousy that there are people that are better than them, or more responsible, or more mature.

Many of my teachers had Ph.D, and worked long hours and sacrificed just to teach their students. You can not lump all teachers into the same category. So a teacher working in a inner city school, getting paid a shit wage, buying supplies with their own money deserves it. Being a teacher these days is a thankless job, I do not know what school you went to, but there are plenty of teachers in the publc system who care about their students. So parents screwed up with their lives, their children suffer. The children never learn basic skills such as reading,writing, and basic math. The middle class starts to shrink even faster since most of them depends on public school for their kids. Majority of Americans make around 50k, and are hard working people that would never be able to afford private institutions. Now we have a system where many people are poor and uneducated since they had no chance at an education. And people that were lucky enough to be born to parents who could afford it. I see our country going far in such a system. One of the reasons that America got to the point that it is now is because the government provided education for its citizens. I am not saying throw more money at it, take the money we already throw at it and use it in a more productive manor. I have already gone through the system, so I get no direct benefit out of this. I just rather not see a day when we have millions of uneducated Americans just because we never gave them the chance.

 

[jrh72582]

Underpaid, seems to me they are getting what they deserve, as all they turn out are myrmidons that believe in Socialism.

Standardized test, courtesy of the Federal Department of Education, which apparently you support giving yet more funding.

Blanket statements and unfounded conclusions - yet again!

 

[jrh72582]

Yeah, Bush was one heck of a war monger. Let's see, the UN signed off on it, Congress signed off on it, the majority of the American people signed off on it.

Let's see, that leaves the left wingnuts and the mainstream media.


You can't have Bush be a complete dumb arse in one post and then a supreme conspiracy spinner in the next....

Bush lied to the UN; he lied to Congress; he lied to the American people. He is a warmongering prick because he created a false justification to go to war because of some vendetta and the almighty dollar. He lied to everyone, ultimately convincing them that his false agenda was somehow true, and everyone bought it. Then, he was exposed. The whole situation fell apart for the man. He fucked up in Iraq. He fucked the middle and lower class. He fucked our reputation abroad. He fucked America while his pocket books grew bigger. Even Cheney used his position largely to make a profit. These two inspire so much ire and alienation. Can you not see this? These two single-handedly destroyed the reputation of the Republican party. And you don't see that? Interesting...

 

[CrackerJax]

Want to improve teaching? get rid of the teachers union...which does not have the interest of education at all.

 

[CrackerJax]

Bush lied to the UN; he lied to Congress; he lied to the American people. He is a warmongering prick because he created a false justification to go to war because of some vendetta and the almighty dollar. He lied to everyone, ultimately convincing them that his false agenda was somehow true, and everyone bought it. Then, he was exposed. The whole situation fell apart for the man. He fucked up in Iraq. He fucked the middle and lower class. He fucked our reputation abroad. He fucked America while his pocket books grew bigger. Even Cheney used his position largely to make a profit. These two inspire so much ire and alienation. Can you not see this? These two single-handedly destroyed the reputation of the Republican party. And you don't see that? Interesting...

Bush never lied....the intelligence he had was faulty, as was the U.N.'s. Most of the intelligence which was acted upon originated from the Clinton administration, simply follow the time lines....

Do we have detractors abroad? Sure. This is nothing new. Bush did everything in the spirit of keeping Americans safe after a horrific terrorist attack upon our soil. No fault there. If other nations don't like it, they can go pound sand.

 

[jrh72582]

Want to improve teaching? get rid of the teachers union...which does not have the interest of education at all.

The teachers union has the interest of the teachers. The teachers should have the interest of education. The idea is that the teachers will remain comfortable and protected so that they can remain inspired and effective. However, some teachers get lazy. Even Ph.D's - I work with them every day and am appalled by their behavior at times. They dodge students, waste resources, and remain in leisure at all times. Keep in mind these kind of teachers remain in the minority. So I have mixed feelings about the unions. I am a member of one, but despise idleness. I do benefit from one, but I do my job well. So I don't know how to solve the problem that is our failing education system. I do know that in order for education to excel, we need qualified teachers, decent wages, and a scholarly atmosphere and conviviality among the teaching staff. My two cents.

 

[jrh72582]

Bush never lied....the intelligence he had was faulty, as was the U.N.'s. Most of the intelligence which was acted upon originated from the Clinton administration, simply follow the time lines....

Do we have detractors abroad? Sure. This is nothing new. Bush did everything in the spirit of keeping Americans safe after a horrific terrorist attack upon our soil. No fault there. If other nations don't like it, they can go pound sand.

You seem to have forgotten the Valerie Plame fiasco conveniently quickly. Remember her? Her husband told Bush that Iraq had NO yellow cake uranium (and thus, no WMD's). Bush swept his assessment under the rug and exposed Valerie as an undercover CIA agent. Yeah, he didn't know...

For a conspiracy theorist, you're conveniently and seemingly inconsistent. On one hand, your a pyrhonist skeptic and on the other, a blind automaton.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Many of my teachers had Ph.D, and worked long hours and sacrificed just to teach their students. You can not lump all teachers into the same category. So a teacher working in a inner city school, getting paid a shit wage, buying supplies with their own money deserves it. Being a teacher these days is a thankless job, I do not know what school you went to, but there are plenty of teachers in the publc system who care about their students. So parents screwed up with their lives, their children suffer. The children never learn basic skills such as reading,writing, and basic math. The middle class starts to shrink even faster since most of them depends on public school for their kids. Majority of Americans make around 50k, and are hard working people that would never be able to afford private institutions. Now we have a system where many people are poor and uneducated since they had no chance at an education. And people that were lucky enough to be born to parents who could afford it. I see our country going far in such a system. One of the reasons that America got to the point that it is now is because the government provided education for its citizens. I am not saying throw more money at it, take the money we already throw at it and use it in a more productive manor. I have already gone through the system, so I get no direct benefit out of this. I just rather not see a day when we have millions of uneducated Americans just because we never gave them the chance.

ROFLMAO

You obviously have failed to examine the state of the Republic with any great interested. We already do have millions of uneducated Americans. Jefferson's idea that free education would result in a informed electorate is a joke.

The only thing it has come as a result of a public education system is what Socialism predicts, mindless drones that are incapable of having the creative spark of individualism due to having never had the opportunity to learn how to reach logical conclusions.

More so is the fact that there has been attempts by people outside of the school system to dictate what is taught, and a refusal of them, and educators to get out of the way and let students decide what career path is right for them. Especially in High School. The public education system is nothing more than a system of industrial brainwashing under a sham facade of providing its pupils with the tools they need to be worthy of the sacrifices their ancestors made to let them be citizens in the greatest nation in the world. Which it fails to do.

The history of the Department of Education is a history of ever increasing inefficiency, spiraling costs and declining rewards. Much like the history of the dollar. The more money they get the less value they deliver.

It is a law of diminishing returns.

No, amount of money is going to change a mediocre or below-average teacher into a great teacher. No, amount of money is going to turn a mediocre student into a intellect.

People are different, something that you seem to be neglecting to account for like so many millions of others. Something that is not accounted for by the industrial process that is the public education system.



JRH - Nice to see you again, are you trying to reach towards the conclusion that I should actually take the time to try paraphrasing the hundreds of thousands if not millions of words that I have read regarding this topic from scratch with out notes, references and a detailed outline of more than hitting the points I want to make?

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

You seem to have forgotten the Valerie Plame fiasco conveniently quickly. Remember her? Her husband told Bush that Iraq had NO yellow cake uranium (and thus, no WMD's). Bush swept his assessment under the rug and exposed Valerie as an undercover CIA agent. Yeah, he didn't know...

For a conspiracy theorist, you're conveniently and seemingly inconsistent. On one hand, your a pyrhonist skeptic and on the other, a blind automaton.

Valerie Plame was never an undercover agent, and the investigation conducted by her husband who was essentially sent on a tax-payer funded vacation to Nigeria via his political connections was a joke.