Is this N def. Please look pics

drpc713

Well-Known Member
I just got these clones 4 days ago.

the root mass was very sufficient to put in the veg ebb and flo. Gave them a day and a half of water only. I started a 425 ppm feeding of canna nutes and enzymes 2 days ago.


When new leaves and nodes sprout are they supposed to have pale green leaves or are they supposed to be dark?

Seems the stems are getting red but don't remember if they came that way.

One leaf is slightly curling under and some of the lower leaves are not as dark green as before.

Strain is Durban poison

ppm 425
RH 57%
temp 77
light 18/ 6
ph jumped from 5.8 to 6.4 over two days period but just brought it back down to 5.5 an hour ago

Hope these pics help
 

Attachments

R

RollingJoints

Guest
Id say it has a little N def nothing to panic about tho.
 

demonic1

Well-Known Member
The leaf curling and drooping down would worry me. However, I have very little experience with hydro grows so don't know if that is normal or changes with your PH changes.
 

dirt clean

Well-Known Member
what N are you feeding? Try a N spray on the leaves. That is a fast acting method of feeding. See if that helps. If you are really worried. Look at the hydro ph chart. see what is locked out at that high ph.
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
Feeding Aqua Vega A and B which is 0-3-5 and 5-0-3 and cannazym. How can I make a N spray
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
The Vega A has potash , N, Ca, Mg, Fe
The Vega B has Cu,Mn,S,Phosphate,Zn, Mo

The cannazym reads, .1% water soluble N

I looked at the PH chart and the only thing I saw locking out at 6.4 was Fe. Could this be it?

What would be a good ratio to mix.

Should I bump up the nute levels or just spray.

Thanks for all the quick replies guys.
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
LOL dont do anything that anyone has previously stated..

its NOT a nitrogen deficiency, nitrogen deficiencies start from the old growth, not the new growth. and foliar feeding is the last thing you want to do when you are having a problem, because you are not CORRECTING the problem, you are putting a band aid on it..

first of all, how are you reading your ppms and ph? do you have a combo pen? or a ppm pem and a ph test kit?

from the looks of it to me, it looks like the ph is a little bit too base or acidic and causing them to curl like that, but the nutrients are there, which is why you have the nice pale growth..

with that canna, and good water, you shouldnt have to adjust the ph much if at all..

are you using reverse osmosis water? or are you using tap? if so do you know the ppm and ph of the tap water?
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
Yo Flo,

Thanks for chiming in.

PPM is read by a hanna dist one which has a .65 conversion factor ( I need that cause all the Canna info is in EC)

Using tester that came with the GH up and down


Using tap water with a base ppm of 178 then adding nute on top of that
Base ph starting out at 7.5

The way I make my feed is Start with 178 base water add 1.1 ml per gallon of HG roots excelerator
That doesn't change ppm much, then bring the nutes up to desired level which 425 is about 2/3 of recommended new clone feeding. Then ph ajust to 5.8

In the back of my mind i thought that the pale growth made sense because photosynthesis has not set in yet, but i saw the red stems and a touch of fading on the old growth and kinda freaked.

What do I do now besides slow down and listen
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
Yo Flo,

Thanks for chiming in.

PPM is read by a hanna dist one which has a .65 conversion factor ( I need that cause all the Canna info is in EC)

Using tester that came with the GH up and down


Using tap water with a base ppm of 178 then adding nute on top of that
Base ph starting out at 7.5

The way I make my feed is Start with 178 base water add 1.1 ml per gallon of HG roots excelerator
That doesn't change ppm much, then bring the nutes up to desired level which 425 is about 2/3 of recommended new clone feeding. Then ph ajust to 5.8

In the back of my mind i thought that the pale growth made sense because photosynthesis has not set in yet, but i saw the red stems and a touch of fading on the old growth and kinda freaked.

What do I do now besides slow down and listen
ok, first of all is your ppm pen calibrated? you should multiply the EC of what is on the chart by i believe 700 which will give you the ppm.

now on to the ph,

first of all the live nutes should be added last to your nute mix, because they have a tendency to raise and lower the pH as they become more and less active in the nute solution.

second, when using tap water, you have a good amount of chlorine in there which needs to be evaporated for at least 12 hours, pref. 24 hours before mixing because the chlorine will cause a ph swing while it is evaporating.

so, what you should do, is put your tap water in a bucket or whatever, and let it sit for a day

then mix in your a into the water, then the part b, stir it around really well and let it sit.

then add in the cannazyme, stir it around really well and let it sit for about 20 mins or so, then add your ph as needed.

once you have the desired ph, i always let it sit for another 30 minutes to make sure it doesnt drift too much, and i am getting a proper reading.

once you are happy with the ph, go ahead and add the hg roots excelerator, and add the entire nute mix to your res.

now onto the GH test kits,
while they do give you a fairly accurate ballpark figure, they are not meant for precise readings.. they have about a .5-.8 margin for error i have found.

in a hydroponic solution, you want your solution to be between 5.8 and 6.2, which means at all times you want your solution to read at the piss yellow color of 6.0.. this will mean that your soulution is somewhere between 5.7 and 6.3. if you try to get it to an orangy, yellowish collor, you could be between 5.3-6.0 which is going to be too low, which is where i think your solution is starting, and drifting quickly towards the 6.5-7.0 area, as the chlorine evaporates.

so, for today, i would go grab a couple gallons of distilled water, or whatever you need for your res (just so you dont have to wait for 24 hours to let your tap water get ready)

then add parts a+b, stir, and let it sit
add cannazyme, stir, and let it sit
ph to piss yellow 6.0
add in roots excelerator, stir, and add to res.

also, when testing for ph, i find the most accurate way, is to get a large amount of drops, in a small amount of water.. i usually would fill that vial up about 1/3 of the way or less, and put about 3-4 drops of tester in the vial to get the most accurate reading..

hope this helps

FLo
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
Well I was going for the more orange color which you already nailed. Should I just trash this nute solution now and start over or just keep on the ph testing.

Is where i am at now going to cause any problems down the road or is this an easy fix.

And I did get a hanna 800 ppm solution for calibration which i did before my tests


+rep
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
oh one other thing Canna says not to use air stones as well as the store that sold it to me. Is the ebb and flo filling up and draining enough to keep it oxygenated
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
yes as long as your temps are fine, you are getting plenty of oxygen at the root zone.. the problems is definitely the ph.. you can adjust it, but make sure it stays stable,

if it continues to drift wildly, i would get a new solution in there with either tap water, that has set for 24 hours, or start with some distilled water, and be sure to follow the steps i outlined above
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
oh ya, and i forgot to mention, i would go ahead and cut the nute mix in half, so aim for about 250-300 ppm until the new growth straightens out.. this way you wont be bombarding the roots with nutes whenever they are able to uptake them again..

no worries bro, you are fine, give it a few days and they will look like new again
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
Cool I'll check the ph again in a few hours see if it is swaying again if not ill top off with some ph balanced water to bring the nutes down a little
 

bigbong1411

Well-Known Member
I use the Hannah pHEP meter and it has a conversion factor of 500, which I think (but not positive) is the most common conversion factor for the Hannah tds meters. I was looking over the specs for your Hannah DiST 1 meter and it says that the meter has an adjustable EC/TDS conversion factor of 0.45-1.00.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?N4=Z710393|SIGMA&N5=SEARCH_CONCAT_PNO|BRAND_KEY&F=SPEC


Are you sure that the conversion factor is set at 650? I know you said that previously, but it might be a good idea just to check and make sure.
 

drpc713

Well-Known Member
This is where i found that info. I saw all other Hanna were at 500 but when i click on specs on this page it says .65

http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?id=033002&ProdCode=HI 98300

If any one thinks i am reading this wrong please let me know I don't want to be doomed to fail from misreading something

This conversion is listed as eutech in Jorge's bible but also in the book Hanna has its own chart at .50 would they make just one at .65
 

bigbong1411

Well-Known Member
I went to the Hannah site first, but for some reason the link that you gave didn't come up. I got an older link that didn't show the conversion factor. I read 0.65 as well, so it looks to me like you're reading it correctly. It is kinda weird (and not very logical) that it's one of the only ones that uses the 650 conversion factor.

I would still email them, just in case....
 

bigbong1411

Well-Known Member
Wait a second... the meter in that picture is the DiST 3, not the DiST1, like you have. This is where it gets confusing, as it says "HI 98300, HI 98301 (DiST 1) and HI 98302 (DiST 2) perform TDS measurements, while HI 98303 (DiST 3) and HI 98304 (DiST 4) provide conductivity readings.".... but when you look up the 98300, it has a conversion factor of 650, while the 98301 has a conversion factor of 500.

So even though both are the DiST 1, they have two different conversion factors.

Do you have the 98300=650 or the 98301=500?
 

bigbong1411

Well-Known Member
One more thing.... I know that one dude with over a thousands posts said that you need to get a pH meter, and that's true. If you get a Hannah pH meter, make sure to get a big thing of the HANNAH electrode storage solution. It's a bitch to find in hydro stores. It will save you the hassle of buying again and some cash if you just get the big container. When I store my hannah pH meter in the Hannah brand electrode storage solution, I hardly ever have to calibrate it. I'm also extremely anal about measurements and making sure everything is calibrated properly, but I only calibrate my meter every five days or so when I have the hannah brand solution. However, when I bought some generic pH electrode storage solution, I had to calibrate my meter every single time I turned it on.

Another tip: to save on calibration solution, calibrate your meter in the plastice probe cover that you use to put the pH calibration solution in and store the meter. That solution isn't super expensive, but it's not cheap either. The smaller the container that you use, the less calibration solution you have to use.
 
Top