Obama ... He's Lookin' Good!

olosto

New Member
Just remember he's your guy when the cards all fall......and they will. Sure as the sun rises this will all lead to economic and social catastrophe.

Its not going to happen. Recovery is already happening. Yes, we will lose more jobs in the coming months but that is a lagging indicator. Other indicators show a stready turnaround. Whats your timeline on this economic and social catastrohe? Weeks? A month or 2? I'd like to know because you talk like the end is already here, LOL.
 

ViRedd

New Member
and yes the tone and point of ViRedd's posts are always hatemongering imo.
One question, olosto: If the fascist currently occupying the White House had been named Benito Mussolini instead of Barak Obama, would you be in support of him and his supporters, or would you be speaking out against him and his supporters?

Vi
 

olosto

New Member
One question, olosto: If the fascist currently occupying the White House had been named Benito Mussolini instead of Barak Obama, would you be in support of him and his supporters, or would you be speaking out against him and his supporters?

Vi
Totally loaded question. You can't even ask a question without your own biases coming into play. Obama is a fascist only to extemeists, and you are certainly there if not by your own admission? What is you point? You find Obama Fascist, fine. I'll call it progressive.

Your questions are always "slippery slope" oriented but then they actually have no true paraell unless you are so extremeist you are will to believe any propaganda thrown in your direction. If I say sure whatever the name its ok, you say Mussolini is a terrible person (agreed) but it has nothing to do with this since few people think Obama is a fascist let alone him being a self proclaimed. Not to mention were talking about a mere name and not the princepals behind someons belief. You simply said if his name were X. Not that person is X. I hope you see my point here because you have some arguements but your method of questioning always detracts from any true points you might have. Simply state a question with out the bias and without trying to trap someone. Example:

Would you support Barrack Obamma if told the nation he was going to move to a fascist direction?

Answer: No I would not but I understand how some people might consider his progressivism as fascist. I also think that these people are fairly narrow minded and just pissed off because we are moving from a conservative landscape to a progressive liberal landscape and they do not like it. Thus they lump it with "evil" forms of government.

See how easy that was? No baited questions that are non-sequitor. An intelligent discussion without the baggage.


Your not going to convince me that Obama is actually satans second coming and anything I say is not geing to convince you otherwise.

:peace:
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Olosto is aware of logical fallacies and avoids them = +1

Vi's statements always contain at least one logical fallacy and reek of uneducated debate and arguing techniques (and I'm not even an Obama fan - merely being honest) = -1

Olosto has the edge.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Totally loaded question. You can't even ask a question without your own biases coming into play. Obama is a fascist only to extemeists, and you are certainly there if not by your own admission? What is you point? You find Obama Fascist, fine. I'll call it progressive.

Your questions are always "slippery slope" oriented but then they actually have no true paraell unless you are so extremeist you are will to believe any propaganda thrown in your direction. If I say sure whatever the name its ok, you say Mussolini is a terrible person (agreed) but it has nothing to do with this since few people think Obama is a fascist let alone him being a self proclaimed. Not to mention were talking about a mere name and not the princepals behind someons belief. You simply said if his name were X. Not that person is X. I hope you see my point here because you have some arguements but your method of questioning always detracts from any true points you might have. Simply state a question with out the bias and without trying to trap someone. Example:

Would you support Barrack Obamma if told the nation he was going to move to a fascist direction?

Answer: No I would not but I understand how some people might consider his progressivism as fascist. I also think that these people are fairly narrow minded and just pissed off because we are moving from a conservative landscape to a progressive liberal landscape and they do not like it. Thus they lump it with "evil" forms of government.

See how easy that was? No baited questions that are non-sequitor. An intelligent discussion without the baggage.


Your not going to convince me that Obama is actually satans second coming and anything I say is not geing to convince you otherwise.

:peace:
Strange,

seeings as how Obama has yet to undo anything of his distinctly Fascist Predecessor and has supported distinctly pro-big corporate (fascist) policies like the bank bail outs I am of the opinion that you are incorrect in your answer.

Obama is a fascist, and he is in fact moving this country in a fascist direction.

Though it is hard to tell the difference between Fascism and Socialism as both of them are so similar as to be nearly inseparable. So maybe I'm wrong and he's actually moving it in a Socialist direction.

:: shrugs ::

Either direction is the same one though, and that's towards more state control of our lives, less individual responsibility, more destruction of all the values, and ideals that has defined America since its creation, and more enslavement of the individuals by the State or by its Client Corporations.

The same Client Corporations that have demonstrated a willingness to terminate them and leave them to fend for themselves the moment things get bad, because they, like all liberals, are little bitches who are afraid of a good challenge, and wouldn't know the meaning of the word loyalty if some one shoved their face in a stone tablet on which it was carved.

Under Socialism we will be held prisoner by bureaucrats who are not answerable to us, and under Fascism we will be held prisoner by corporatocrats who are not answerable to us (despite a myth perpetuated by a government that they are 'public servants')

Regardless of what Obama is, he is, and he himself as made this sufficiently clear through his rhetoric and his actions, anti-American, and pro-Statist/Corporatist.

In short he is nothing more than another Bush, all empty-rhetoric puffed up by the media.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
Bullshit. What #'s do you have on your side? More of you blathering with no data to back it up.. You have yet to talk about these numbers, but we did talk about Obama approval ratings and those are not on your side. What the fuck are you talking about??
Aprroval ratings dont really mean shit other than most American are just plain idiots. It doesnt really prove a point or anything. As for what #s, how about the TRILLIONS spent on these bailouts and stimulus plans. Do you understand the concept of inflation? This is an unprecedented amount of money to printed out of thin air, and the result will be something very similar to say, oh I dont know, the Weimar republic.


Listen, were in untested waters here. Everyone thinks they know whats best for the economy and I got news for ya, most of the time the average guy is wrong.

Like I said before I understand that to many people this is scarry. The spending situation will be looked back on in future years as too much too fast, no arguement there. However, its realy easy for people that do not know enough to say hey, I don't know if this is really gunna work. But the numbers show that it is working..
Okay, by all means lets see some numbers. Even if the plan has managed to keep our FAKE economy afloat temporarily, through papering over it like we have done in recessions past, the underlying root causes are still there, and have actually been exasterbated by these actions. The whole housing crisis was brought about by an abundance of easy credit. It was a bubble, brought about by artificially low interest rates. The low interest rates, were a result of the bush administration, or the federal reserve rather, trying to stimulate the economy after 9/11.
So what are we doing now, lowering interest rates, and creating trillions of dollars out of thin air. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going to happen. We are not "stimulating" the economy, we are attemting to reinflate our bubble economy. But this cannot go on forever, or much longer for that matter. What happens next time(assuming the bubble economy is reinflated), what, are we just going to print a hundred trillion dollars.

To say you do not like Barrack's policies is legitimate. To continually bash him and promote tin foil conspiracy theories is pointless.

I still ask the question does anyone think he is trying to screw over the country? I think posters here really have shit so twisted up in their minds to believe that kind of stuff.
I don't think he is trying to screw over the country, I could speculate as to his motives, or what is going on in his head, but it does not change the facts of the matter.

There will be no catastrophy as you seem to like to insinuate that its imminent. Things will be ok. Its not all peaches. Hell, i had to shut down my business last year, I UNDERSTAND! But the economic downturn is largely because of the financial sector. I was in the financial sector and I know first hand the bullshit banks and mortgage lenders pulled to write bad loans. They are the ones to blame and if they need to be regulated for a period of time so that sufficient controls can be put into place to prevent that from ever happening again, I', ok with that!. I don't like regulation but when companies are so crooked that there is no way to clean them up, then regulation will get them back on track, and hopefully the regulation can end when this mess is sorted.
No catastrophe? Well lets see, 11 trillion in public debt(that we count), over 60 trillion in UNFUNDED liabilities, a trillion dollar budget deficit, and a growing trade deficit(adding to our debt constantly). Seems like we have pretty huge problem on our hands to me. We can never actually pay all of this money back, so basically, America is bankrupt. Id definitely call that a catastrophe.
Basically, we are headed for Great Depression II, and this one has the potential to be even worse, as it will be an inflationary depression.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
Olosto is aware of logical fallacies and avoids them = +1

Vi's statements always contain at least one logical fallacy and reek of uneducated debate and arguing techniques (and I'm not even an Obama fan - merely being honest) = -1

Olosto has the edge.
Thanks for the stimulating commentary :neutral:
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Aprroval ratings dont really mean shit other than most American are just plain idiots. It doesnt really prove a point or anything. As for what #s, how about the TRILLIONS spent on these bailouts and stimulus plans. Do you understand the concept of inflation? This is an unprecedented amount of money to printed out of thin air, and the result will be something very similar to say, oh I dont know, the Weimar republic.




Okay, by all means lets see some numbers. Even if the plan has managed to keep our FAKE economy afloat temporarily, through papering over it like we have done in recessions past, the underlying root causes are still there, and have actually been exasterbated by these actions. The whole housing crisis was brought about by an abundance of easy credit. It was a bubble, brought about by artificially low interest rates. The low interest rates, were a result of the bush administration, or the federal reserve rather, trying to stimulate the economy after 9/11.
So what are we doing now, lowering interest rates, and creating trillions of dollars out of thin air. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going to happen. We are not "stimulating" the economy, we are attemting to reinflate our bubble economy. But this cannot go on forever, or much longer for that matter. What happens next time(assuming the bubble economy is reinflated), what, are we just going to print a hundred trillion dollars.


I don't think he is trying to screw over the country, I could speculate as to his motives, or what is going on in his head, but it does not change the facts of the matter.



No catastrophe? Well lets see, 11 trillion in public debt(that we count), over 60 trillion in UNFUNDED liabilities, a trillion dollar budget deficit, and a growing trade deficit(adding to our debt constantly). Seems like we have pretty huge problem on our hands to me. We can never actually pay all of this money back, so basically, America is bankrupt. Id definitely call that a catastrophe.
Basically, we are headed for Great Depression II, and this one has the potential to be even worse, as it will be an inflationary depression.
WOW - no logical fallacies. Oh wait, is that a 'hypothesis contrary to fact' in bold. Why yes it is.

Oh wait, a comparison to the Weimar republic, based solely on hypothesis (unsubstantiated hypothesis, at that) - well that counts as a 'false analogy'. Another logical fallacy. I tell you what, I'll make a list of all the fallacies for you so that you, Vi, and all the other Neo-con conspiracy nuts can try to avoid them in the future.

Here they are:

Argumentum ad hominem

Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Ipse Dixit

False Dilemma

Begging the Question

Straw Man

Circular Reasoning

False Analogy

Hypothesis Contrary to Fact

Appeal to Authority

Those are a few. As I see others violated, I will mention them. The idea is that you cannot use these fallacies in your reasoning or arguments because they disobey the rules of logic, as set forth by ancient cultures and agreed upon by any person of 'sans anima'. Have at it fellas.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Olosto ...

If you consider Obama to be a "Progressive," I'd like to see your definition of a Fascist.

What would you call a national leader who fires corporate executives, takes over auto companies, takes over banks ... and will attempt to take over the medical system, all the while leaving the illusion of private ownership, with strict governmental control?

Please try to answer the question without resorting to personal attacks or vitriol. Thanks ...

Oh, and by the way ... while answering the question, please keep in mind that Benito Mussolini made the Italian train system run on time. :lol:

Vi
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
WOW - no logical fallacies. Oh wait, is that a 'hypothesis contrary to fact' in bold. Why yes it is.

Oh wait, a comparison to the Weimar republic, based solely on hypothesis (unsubstantiated hypothesis, at that) - well that counts as a 'false analogy'. Another logical fallacy. I tell you what, I'll make a list of all the fallacies for you so that you, Vi, and all the other Neo-con conspiracy nuts can try to avoid them in the future.

Here they are:

Argumentum ad hominem

Argumentum ad ignorantiam

Ipse Dixit

False Dilemma

Begging the Question

Straw Man

Circular Reasoning

False Analogy

Hypothesis Contrary to Fact

Appeal to Authority

Those are a few. As I see others violated, I will mention them. The idea is that you cannot use these fallacies in your reasoning or arguments because they disobey the rules of logic, as set forth by ancient cultures and agreed upon by any person of 'sans anima'. Have at it fellas.
Yet another useless response.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
I'm too educated to be discussing politics in an online forum, especially considering the fact that I'm a university professor, surrounded by colleagues with whom I can engage in edifying discourse, albeit political, philosophical, social, etc...
You see, there is a certain peculiarity in a professor choosing to use his time (which we highly value) to talk politics to anonymous personalities on the interwebs.
Ah yes, your time is much better spent pointing out spelling and grammatical errors on an internet forum(speaking of which, please learn how to use the word albeit). Or reading the posts, and providing commentary, but never actually discussing politics.:roll:
what a tard (oh look, a sentence fragment, and I didnt capitalize, and tard isnt even a real word! :O)
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
Ah yes, your time is much better spent pointing out spelling and grammatical errors on an internet forum(speaking of which, please learn how to use the word albeit). Or reading the posts, and providing commentary, but never actually discussing politics.:roll:
what a tard (oh look, a sentence fragment, and I didnt capitalize, and tard isnt even a real word! :O)
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Ah yes, your time is much better spent pointing out spelling and grammatical errors on an internet forum(speaking of which, please learn how to use the word albeit). Or reading the posts, and providing commentary, but never actually discussing politics.:roll:
what a tard (oh look, a sentence fragment, and I didnt capitalize, and tard isnt even a real word! :O)
WOW - now you're calling me retarded! That's very nice of you. You criticize me for not debating (which I will not do) and all the while, you resort to name calling. Now that's debate! I'll try that at the next conference and see what the other erudites think of my neat new tactic.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Its not going to happen. Recovery is already happening. Yes, we will lose more jobs in the coming months but that is a lagging indicator. Other indicators show a stready turnaround. Whats your timeline on this economic and social catastrohe? Weeks? A month or 2? I'd like to know because you talk like the end is already here, LOL.

There is no recovery going on, your only seeing what is called a " Bear trap" in the markets. There are no" Green Shoots". You say the employment levels lag, and they do, but tax receipts do not lag and they are in a death spiral, constantly getting lower and lower. The economic indicator you are probably referring to is the increase in consumer spending from the 1st quarter. it happens every year since they started using the stats, its called " Christmas" and people tend to spend a lot more cash around that time of year. Since this is a nation of credit, many folks do not pay for it right away so it doesn't show up until the first quarter of the next year.

I will give you a time line... More economic bad news around the end of the year, as commercial real estate starts to go to the shitter and ARM ( Adj Rate Mortgages) become due to the homeowners. Anyone in the markets will be caught in the "trap" and lose everything again. By the end of 2011 we should be into a real depression and the value of the dollar will be at an all time low . the price of gold will be the highest ever, and by dec 21, 2012 the world will end ( Im not real sure on that last one LOL just had to put that in there). as long as we keep throwing money at the problems and propping up the failures there will be no economic recovery. Obama is a Puppet controlled by the financial men behind the curtain, just like many of the presidents we have had.
 

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
There is no recovery going on, your only seeing what is called a " Bear trap" in the markets. There are no" Green Shoots". You say the employment levels lag, and they do, but tax receipts do not lag and they are in a death spiral, constantly getting lower and lower. The economic indicator you are probably referring to is the increase in consumer spending from the 1st quarter. it happens every year since they started using the stats, its called " Christmas" and people tend to spend a lot more cash around that time of year. Since this is a nation of credit, many folks do not pay for it right away so it doesn't show up until the first quarter of the next year.

I will give you a time line... More economic bad news around the end of the year, as commercial real estate starts to go to the shitter and ARM ( Adj Rate Mortgages) become due to the homeowners. Anyone in the markets will be caught in the "trap" and lose everything again. By the end of 2011 we should be into a real depression and the value of the dollar will be at an all time low . the price of gold will be the highest ever, and by dec 21, 2012 the world will end ( Im not real sure on that last one LOL just had to put that in there). as long as we keep throwing money at the problems and propping up the failures there will be no economic recovery. Obama is a Puppet controlled by the financial men behind the curtain, just like many of the presidents we have had.
Funny thing is, he's got such an Oedipus complex and is so egotistical, he doesn't even know that. I'm a fair minded person, and I welcome being proven wrong on many of my viewpoints and assertions of his actions so far, but beyond the pretty face, and the clever way he tries to JOKE away real problems, and his own fuckups, there's little room for impartiality. It's been less than 6 months, and the road to tyranny, consolidation of power, and stolen liberty has been fast-tracked in a way I've never seen before. What's so astonishing is, that even while we point out the lies, untruths, double-speak, hypocrisy, and the financial enslavement of our society to others that's going on, they still would rather champion "their guy"- as if that means something. Makes me wonder if there are enough people CAPABLE of seeing the truth anymore, or give enough of a damn to do anything about it.
 
Top