Mad Bad Cal-Mag Deficiency

[Damios]

Did they look like these kind of??

Wtf....how did you get into my grow and take pictures!?

That is exactly how they look, from head to toe lol.

I tried just about everything to fix them, they are still alive....they just don't seem like they are going to recover though....who knows they might turn around, I'm not gonna dump em till they are totally f**ked.

 

[Damios]

Not totally sure how the original Ph fluctuation occured, but I think it might have been from the sphagnum moss in the soil, it's acidic as hell. Maybe after watering a few times the dolomite lime was washed out and the moss made the Ph drop......I have no clue. Is that even possible?

All I know is that one day I came in and the Ph was 4.5

Funny thing is that I have two other Og plants the experienced the same thing because they are all in the same soil, and they didn't show one damn spec of problems, I love that strain.

 

[morrisgreenberg]

damios, u need to check the runoff water bro, thats the key

 

[Damios]

damios, u need to check the runoff water bro, thats the key

That definitely makes sense, and if they start to turn around and I water them again I am for sure going to do that.

They are only mother plants so it's not that big of a deal if they hit the dust, plus like I said I was lucky enough to grab two clones off the top that hadn't been affected yet.

Hopefully I won't run into this problem again with this soil....

 

[Damios]

damios, u need to check the runoff water bro, thats the key

K well I tested my two Og plants and the runoff water was at 4.8PH!!!!

I flushed the hell out of them with some 6.6ph water and the runoff came out afterward at around 6.0 after putting like 5 gallons through my 2 gallon pots.....

I then went and got a rapitest kit to check the PH of the straight soil as well as the NPK.

Turns out the PH of the soil is between 7-7.5? '

So how the f**k is the runoff at 6.0 when the soil is at 7-7.5 and the water I put through it is at 6.6.....?!?!

Also I definitely need to cut back on nutes....the NPK test for both of my pots showed overkill levels of P and K and possibly N.....but the thing is that they are both showing N overdose symptoms....which is weird when the test showed that the P and K were overkill and not so much the N..

At this point everything seems so out of wack I want to replant them in different soil....but I'm not sure that will neccessarily help....

Any suggestions?

Thanks for any input guys.

 

[edux10]

i too had to learn different mistakes the hard way. what is up with your room? how are the fans set up? do you have active or passive exhaust.

usually if you room is set up right, your plants WANT to live and it takes a lot to kill em off. flush and check your air flow. Plants need frest air all the time just like outdoor.

if you have a sealed room make sure you are running co2 and make sure the pps are at 1500 if you don't usually check, check now.

 

[richjames]

K well I tested my two Og plants and the runoff water was at 4.8PH!!!!

I flushed the hell out of them with some 6.6ph water and the runoff came out afterward at around 6.0 after putting like 5 gallons through my 2 gallon pots.....

I then went and got a rapitest kit to check the PH of the straight soil as well as the NPK.

Turns out the PH of the soil is between 7-7.5? '

So how the f**k is the runoff at 6.0 when the soil is at 7-7.5 and the water I put through it is at 6.6.....?!?!

Also I definitely need to cut back on nutes....the NPK test for both of my pots showed overkill levels of P and K and possibly N.....but the thing is that they are both showing N overdose symptoms....which is weird when the test showed that the P and K were overkill and not so much the N..

At this point everything seems so out of wack I want to replant them in different soil....but I'm not sure that will neccessarily help....

Any suggestions?

Thanks for any input guys.

Remember, the most accurate run-off for checking ph is the first few drops. After that readings are less and less acurate due to the high water content already in the soil. Let it dry out then check it again.

 

[Kriegs]

K well I tested my two Og plants and the runoff water was at 4.8PH!!!!

I flushed the hell out of them with some 6.6ph water and the runoff came out afterward at around 6.0 after putting like 5 gallons through my 2 gallon pots.....

I then went and got a rapitest kit to check the PH of the straight soil as well as the NPK.

Turns out the PH of the soil is between 7-7.5? '

So how the f**k is the runoff at 6.0 when the soil is at 7-7.5 and the water I put through it is at 6.6.....?!?!

Also I definitely need to cut back on nutes....the NPK test for both of my pots showed overkill levels of P and K and possibly N.....but the thing is that they are both showing N overdose symptoms....which is weird when the test showed that the P and K were overkill and not so much the N..

At this point everything seems so out of wack I want to replant them in different soil....but I'm not sure that will neccessarily help....

Any suggestions?

Thanks for any input guys.

The rapidtest kits don't work well when testing soil pH directly -- they always read higher than it is. Also, don't believe their NPK results, either -- they always underestimate N and overshoot P and K. The N test is on nitrate, which is only a portion of the N content in soil. I got myself into your same trouble by believing these very same test results. Overall, these kits are worthless outside of testing the runoff with the pH test -- that works well, but only on runoff water.

What's happening here is that the soil pH dropped due to over-nutrition. Commercial potting soils have very little alkaline buffering capacity, so once they go acid, they continue to drift acid. Flushing is the way to treat this initially, but you also have to work in some calcium carbonate or dolomite into the top inch of your soil -- about 2 tablespoons per gallon -- to correct that drift. Make certain you get a product labeled as dolomite or calcite / calcium carbonate. There are other "limes" out there that can swing your pH hard to the high side; sure don't need that.

I don't know the happy frog product well. Generally, pre-ferted soils don't need ANY additional nutrients over the span of a normal grow. Don't know if you've been adding anything.. if so, stop.

morrisgreenberg has you covered here, too... Your problem sounds like a classic overnute / pH drop problem.

Last thing: when you flush and correct this, the problem will continue to march on for a couple days. Just stand pat, and you'll see the plants course-correct shortly.

 

[Damios]

i too had to learn different mistakes the hard way. what is up with your room? how are the fans set up? do you have active or passive exhaust.

usually if you room is set up right, your plants WANT to live and it takes a lot to kill em off. flush and check your air flow. Plants need frest air all the time just like outdoor.

if you have a sealed room make sure you are running co2 and make sure the pps are at 1500 if you don't usually check, check now.

My room isn't sealed yet and the door is open all the time with a regular fan blowing air in the room so they have plenty of fresh air and I have a humidifier in the room to keep the humidity around 50-60%

I plan on using Co2 in a little bit once I get a replacement O-ring for the system because it is leaking.

I just read that overdosing on P and K I guess isn't that bad and is pretty hard to mess your plants up.

The fact that they are showing a N overdose makes more sense because it shows relatively easily.

I am just going to flush when the soil gets a little dryer...probably tomorrow...and then hope for the best.

 

[Damios]

Remember, the most accurate run-off for checking ph is the first few drops. After that readings are less and less acurate due to the high water content already in the soil. Let it dry out then check it again.

That makes sense, because the first few drops is the water that has been in there for a while.

I am going to check again tomorrow and try another flush.

Thanks again for the help, I definitely could use it.

 

[Kriegs]

My room isn't sealed yet and the door is open all the time with a regular fan blowing air in the room so they have plenty of fresh air and I have a humidifier in the room to keep the humidity around 50-60%

I plan on using Co2 in a little bit once I get a replacement O-ring for the system because it is leaking.

I just read that overdosing on P and K I guess isn't that bad and is pretty hard to mess your plants up.

The fact that they are showing a N overdose makes more sense because it shows relatively easily.

I am just going to flush when the soil gets a little dryer...probably tomorrow...and then hope for the best.

Looks like we were posting around the same time...

Just FYI, there's no need to wait for your pots to dry out b4 you flush. Plants at your growth stage are plenty able to handle the extra moisture of flushing.. I'd do it right now.

 

[Damios]

The rapidtest kits don't work well when testing soil pH directly -- they always read higher than it is. Also, don't believe their NPK results, either -- they always underestimate N and overshoot P and K. The N test is on nitrate, which is only a portion of the N content in soil. I got myself into your same trouble by believing these very same test results. Overall, these kits are worthless outside of testing the runoff with the pH test -- that works well, but only on runoff water.

What's happening here is that the soil pH dropped due to over-nutrition. Commercial potting soils have very little alkaline buffering capacity, so once they go acid, they continue to drift acid. Flushing is the way to treat this initially, but you also have to work in some calcium carbonate or dolomite into the top inch of your soil -- about 2 tablespoons per gallon -- to correct that drift. Make certain you get a product labeled as dolomite or calcite / calcium carbonate. There are other "limes" out there that can swing your pH hard to the high side; sure don't need that.

I don't know the happy frog product well. Generally, pre-ferted soils don't need ANY additional nutrients over the span of a normal grow. Don't know if you've been adding anything.. if so, stop.

morrisgreenberg has you covered here, too... Your problem sounds like a classic overnute / pH drop problem.

Last thing: when you flush and correct this, the problem will continue to march on for a couple days. Just stand pat, and you'll see the plants course-correct shortly.

You nailed it, I think I have definitely been adding nutes when I shouldn't have, I mean other then some molasses maybe.

I didn't know that Happy Frog soil had so much of its own nutes in it and the guy at the hydro store said that my nute regime would work with that soil....he didn't say that I probably won't need nutes though.

Either it was my fault I guess because I should have payed better attention.

Here is my main problem though: I already flushed them to fix the PH problem, but it was with nutrient water and not plain water. At first the ppm of the runoff water was at 2300, which seemed high as hell to me. Anyways when I finished flushing them the runoff ppms were at about 700. The soil has dolomite lime in it but I think from everything I did it might have all been washed out, same with the other stuff in the soil. now I have no idea where I stand and am wondering if I should just replant them in some more happy frog soil and give them plain water. The happy frog soil has beneficial microbes and Bacillus Subtilis and other Bacillus compounds to help against root rot and such, do you think flushing them washed all that shit out of the soil considering the PPMS are below half of what they were? My main question is whether I should replant them or not?

One thing though, on the bag it says not to store in direct sunlight and yet the hydro store has all their dirt sitting outside....in the sun.

Should I not get dirt from there? I mean does it sitting in the sun affect its composition in anyway?

Anyways, thanks for responding and all the information, you definitely helped save my ass from killing my plants.

 

[Kriegs]

You nailed it, I think I have definitely been adding nutes when I shouldn't have, I mean other then some molasses maybe.

I didn't know that Happy Frog soil had so much of its own nutes in it and the guy at the hydro store said that my nute regime would work with that soil....he didn't say that I probably won't need nutes though.

Either it was my fault I guess because I should have payed better attention.

Here is my main problem though: I already flushed them to fix the PH problem, but it was with nutrient water and not plain water. At first the ppm of the runoff water was at 2300, which seemed high as hell to me. Anyways when I finished flushing them the runoff ppms were at about 700. The soil has dolomite lime in it but I think from everything I did it might have all been washed out, same with the other stuff in the soil. now I have no idea where I stand and am wondering if I should just replant them in some more happy frog soil and give them plain water. The happy frog soil has beneficial microbes and Bacillus Subtilis and other Bacillus compounds to help against root rot and such, do you think flushing them washed all that shit out of the soil considering the PPMS are below half of what they were? My main question is whether I should replant them or not?

One thing though, on the bag it says not to store in direct sunlight and yet the hydro store has all their dirt sitting outside....in the sun.

Should I not get dirt from there? I mean does it sitting in the sun affect its composition in anyway?

Anyways, thanks for responding and all the information, you definitely helped save my ass from killing my plants.

I think I answered some of your questions thru your PM's.

Folks at hydro stores will never tell you that you don't need something -- they're there to sell it to you, so of course you need it, always...

Interesting about the bags being out in the sun. I can't imagine that's very good for the Bacillus they have in there. Dark soil in a hot sun could easily hit 150-200F, maybe more. I doubt you've washed any of them out; they probably were deceased to begin with.

I tell ya... I can't wait to do my next indoor grow. I'm going to have at least a couple "no nutes added" pots - just start with a good soil, germinate, water, flip the lights, and that's it.