Vertical lighting/scrog, should i switch from fluoro's to Metal Halide?

[jigfresh]

I also think 15 clones is was to many but the women thinks otherwise

I missed this the first time.

I owe the sucess of my first grow to the advise of my wife. She may not know anything about growing mj, but every question I bounce off her she has had a great answer. I have followed it and it has done me well.

good stuff.

 

[smoote1987]

Thank you forthe resaponse! I know it was a beasty question as for scrogging I AM GOING TO DO IT the dimensions are in feet incase there was confusion didn't seem to be any. I also think 15 clones is was to many but the women thinks otherwise this isnt my first grow nor am i stranger to LST or suppercrping both excellent techniques but the scrogg is pulling me in so apppealing just rows of tops any who im sticking with the horizontal as i have no clue how to do vertical its seemed way cool though! as for the shape of my screen it is going to be similar to fdd stadium still im trying to find the image of the light distrabution of the 1k hps so i can apply itto my room and venting the light isnt so big deal coiuple holes in the wall blah w/e but your answer was most helpful and as for all natural reason i wantto scrog is to add to my yeild and I LOVE HANDS ON i get all jittery when i get to use my hands the extra work is just goingto be another fruit of my labor


as for the prize im also happy to have warented the 500th posting! i will keep you update on progress but it willbe some time before i get thigns going maybe a few weeks need to get them into final pots figure out drainage situatrion as i cant take them out and water or to flush to i have to adress that first any ideas??...

Sweet deal man i think the stadium idea is perfect. Glad to know you love to be hands on this may end up being a several hour a day job for you with all of your plants.

Hmm drainage on pots and plants bound to a screen you can't move. I'd say research those stadium grows like the one jig linked to. most of them seem to be raised up on cinderblocks with grated shelves of some sort. You'll find more info there. Just a thought to keep you grounded how are you going reach past all of those large plants to the center of the screen to pull a new shoot back under the scrog when you're 8 weeks in. Good luck man, may the scrog and ganja gods have mercy on you.

 

[smoote1987]

Awesome going for the scrog... you are doing it for the same reasons I did it.

One suggestion, two benefits... I would set the pots up on something that would elevate them enough, so that you could get some sort of tray below them allowing you to collect run off and drain into a bucket to pour out, or hook to a hose to feed a drain.

Also this would raise the plants up, raising the screen.... You will spend much time right at screen level. I feel like my screen is at the absolute worst height to work on, it is too tall to knell and work on, but too short to stand, so I have become accustom to stooping and my back hates me for it.

If you want ideas on actual parts to be used I could offer that too, but I don't want to take the fun of design away from you.

Beat me too it jig. I was thinking the same thing but thought he should hear it from someone more experienced in setting up a grow like he wants.

I totally feel you on the scrog height. It is so important so choose wisely. Too low you end up working in a tight space and end up filling your screen too fast. Too high and the plants have to stretch to reach the screen as that is where the light is set and waste valuable budding energy. set the height carefully.

 

[smoote1987]

I missed this the first time.

I owe the sucess of my first grow to the advise of my wife. She may not know anything about growing mj, but every question I bounce off her she has had a great answer. I have followed it and it has done me well.

good stuff.

I third this. The wife wears the pants and has final say, because my ambition can sometimes outweigh my means or my britches and i need to be wrangled back. You should seen me trying to convince her it was a good idea to grow. I think the best asset that they provide is a critic's eye. She critiqued my grow so hard and pushed me to make it as clean, silent, odorless, low maintance, and stealth as it is now. I don't know what i'd do with out her, she's my other half.

 

[jigfresh]

Beat me too it jig. I was thinking the same thing but thought he should hear it from someone more experienced in setting up a grow like he wants.

I totally feel you on the scrog height. It is so important so choose wisely. Too low you end up working in a tight space and end up filling your screen too fast. Too high and the plants have to stretch to reach the screen as that is where the light is set and waste valuable budding energy. set the height carefully.

I forgot my input on actual screen height. I have 12" gap, and while it is tough to reach he back of my 2' deep closet, I still would have liked to made the gap only 10". I feel like the extra two inches of space was a lot of growth that had to be removed. I think 8" might be a little too tight however.

 

[moose88]

i just think 15 is over zelous i mean one plant can easliy fill 1x1 area and ive got the 4.5x4.5 also i should tell you its kinds of shitty but ive got space around my screen to walk on 2 of the four sides i think im going to do the 10 inches but myplant that im growing does not grow tall at all its aurora indica also on last question should i even bother topping my plants as i have an abundace of them or no?..... as for your original post smoote ( i know its a little late) i would stick with what you know the MH works good i usedto have a 100w mh that i used and now im using flour tubes and cfls and thereworking jsut as well if not better.

 

[smoote1987]

i just think 15 is over zelous i mean one plant can easliy fill 1x1 area and ive got the 4.5x4.5 also i should tell you its kinds of shitty but ive got space around my screen to walk on 2 of the four sides i think im going to do the 10 inches but myplant that im growing does not grow tall at all its aurora indica also on last question should i even bother topping my plants as i have an abundace of them or no?..... as for your original post smoote ( i know its a little late) i would stick with what you know the MH works good i usedto have a 100w mh that i used and now im using flour tubes and cfls and thereworking jsut as well if not better.

I don't top so i cannot comment. I would say research your strain and topping of said strain and see if its worth it or not.

Hahaha i totally forgot that was what this thread was about. Funny it finally meandered its way back here. Thanks for your input.

I guess my question would be then are you currently using more lumens or watts of fluorescent than the 100w metal halide (8500 lumens on avg., 100w)?

What i've learned about plants in general so far is that they don't think. They're more like a machine that takes input in the form of nutrients, light, blah, blah, blah and then completes the process of growing larger until it runs out of an essential input. So as i see it its a numbers game, the more lumens, lux, par, whatever you want to call it the more growth rate.

 

[jigfresh]

i just think 15 is over zelous i mean one plant can easliy fill 1x1 area and ive got the 4.5x4.5 also i should tell you its kinds of shitty but ive got space around my screen to walk on 2 of the four sides i think im going to do the 10 inches but myplant that im growing does not grow tall at all its aurora indica also on last question should i even bother topping my plants as i have an abundace of them or no?

15 is over zealous, but I guess it is the size of the screen and not the number of plants that = work (to a point). It's nice you have room to get around.

If you are doing that many plants, i would say don't top. If you just let the main top grow up on each and you train each one around a little, some lower branches will get up there and even if you only have the top plus 3 branches on each that reach the screen that is 60 branches to play with. You could fill the screen with them pretty quickly.

Try not to overgrow it. I really wanted to get the max for my screen so I waited till I thought I could, and now I feel like I waited too long as some things are getting shaded, defeating the whole purpose.

If done right (probably not the first time) I can see this screen possibly making the best looking fields of pot imaginable, all lined up and uniform.

With the screen you can really tell where the light hits, becuase there is a sheet of leaves, unlike regular grows where it's just a jungle.

 

[smoote1987]

15 is over zealous, but I guess it is the size of the screen and not the number of plants that = work (to a point). It's nice you have room to get around.

If you are doing that many plants, i would say don't top. If you just let the main top grow up on each and you train each one around a little, some lower branches will get up there and even if you only have the top plus 3 branches on each that reach the screen that is 60 branches to play with. You could fill the screen with them pretty quickly.

Try not to overgrow it. I really wanted to get the max for my screen so I waited till I thought I could, and now I feel like I waited too long as some things are getting shaded, defeating the whole purpose.

If done right (probably not the first time) I can see this screen possibly making the best looking fields of pot imaginable, all lined up and uniform.

With the screen you can really tell where the light hits, becuase there is a sheet of leaves, unlike regular grows where it's just a jungle.

Very true, i love plane of bud sites created. I either snip the fan leaves that are shading my bud sites or tie them behind/pull them through the screen. Jig is right about the over grow of the sreen.

You really have to feel it out so be sure to learn as much as you can from this first scrog and be very observant of how your plants grow through it during flowering and the stretch. As a general rule during veg you should grow your plants to 1/3 the size that you want in the end as most plants will grow 2-3 times larger during the stretch when in flowering. Its hard to estimate this when thinking about how your plants will grow through the scrog but give it your best guess and thats what practice is for right?

some more tips would be, i like to let the shoots grow through the screen about 2-4 inches and then pull then back under and lay then at a 90 degree angle. How far you let your plant grow through the screen depends on how vigorous it grows and how plyable your plant is. Don't try to bend it too short when the shoot is still kind of stiff, you'll here and feel an awful snap (learned my lesson).

But yea man experience is the best teacher so just get in there and feel it out.

GL

 

[Ray Fox]

some more tips would be, i like to let the shoots grow through the screen about 2-4 inches and then pull then back under and lay then at a 90 degree angle. (learned my lesson). But yea man experience is the best teacher so just get in there and feel it out.
GL

This is a great grow. Really would love to see this when its done. Please check out our grow when you can. We're doing a regular (horizontal) White Ice scrog, 3 plants.

- Ray Fox

 

[smoote1987]

This is a great grow. Really would love to see this when its done. Please check out our grow when you can. We're doing a regular (horizontal) White Ice scrog, 3 plants.

- Ray Fox

Thanks Ray Fox i appreciate the love. I will check out your grow later when i have more time. Quick question from the pic you posted, what are the large holes in the screen for? I'm assuming that you will be letting all the initial shoots grow through that opening and then tying them down along the screen once they've made it through the opening?

Other than that everything looks great, your plants look awesome, and looks like you're using the same screen i am good choice. Using reg bread bag twist ties to tie shoots down with that screen does wonders for easy maintenance.

GL and you will hear more from me later.

 

[moose88]

thatice looks great ,,,,,,.....smoote andjig i think you all right im going to only use 10 plants as i am aware of the task that lies ahead but i don't think im fully prepared as yu both have enlightend me! so ive taken your adive im keeping the screen right below my chest that way when the tops go up there not over my head andio can work ive got plenty of height and as for drainage i would totalyh appricate any ideas that you all had i dont do hydro so water irrigation is not my forte thought perhaps you all may have a bit more insight then my self

 

[smoote1987]

thatice looks great ,,,,,,.....smoote andjig i think you all right im going to only use 10 plants as i am aware of the task that lies ahead but i don't think im fully prepared as yu both have enlightend me! so ive taken your adive im keeping the screen right below my chest that way when the tops go up there not over my head andio can work ive got plenty of height and as for drainage i would totalyh appricate any ideas that you all had i dont do hydro so water irrigation is not my forte thought perhaps you all may have a bit more insight then my self

Good shit man. Sounds good on the scrog. Dont plan on a screen height just yet, watch your plants grow and then make your decision when the time comes. Yea irrigation isn't my forte either.

Lets see if i can help you think through it. 10 plants, soil, cool tube 1000w, scrog... hope i'm not missing anything essential.

i would arrange them in a half circle coliseum fashion for two reasons. The half circle will allow you to get at the plants easily through out the entire grow and you will really be thanking yourself for it mid flower and your screen is nearing full. You'll be able to water every plant with out trying to reach through a jungle to get to that last pot. The second reason would be to maximize your space and light.

As far as for irrigation, i would raise the plants up off the floor on cinderblocks and grated shelves above some form of a basin with a drain.

Raising the plants up in general will save your back so its just a good idea.

However the raised grated shelves will allow the pots to drain through the the shelves and into the basin to be drained. As for what to make the basin out of i don't know man. Go make a nice leisurely trip to Homedepot and look down all the aisles. haha i bet you love that place as much as i do .

I'd say a regular plastic tarp could be just fine but i don't know how you would drain it. Now that I'm thinking about it though you shouldn't really be watering your soil until the point that there would be a tremendous amount of water draining out of the bottom of the pots. You'd be overwatering at that point. So there shouldn't be that much if any water to drain. If you did happen to have an excess water draining into the tarp i bet you could just sop it up with a towel or two. You basically will just be using the the tarp to save your floors from water damage.

Hope this helps take a took at the one growers journal that was linked to earlier in the thread I'm sure it will help wonders.

 

[moose88]

yes thank you i was thinking alongthe lines youve been most helpful awsome job !

 

[jigfresh]

I don't know the exact way of doing it, but I was thinking of rain gutters. Setting the pots up on blocks, with grating on top, or just the blocks, doesn't really matter, ten maybe have two raingutters butted up next to eachother and have them at a slight angle to collect at one end. Just cap them at that end and either make a spout you can pour into a bucket, or just have a cap you can remove to drain the water into something to transport it.

Also about the screen you can use whatever you want, but I really love the material I got. They might not have it where you live, but it was backing for a stucco wall. It had construction paper all interwoven with the 2"x2" mesh, I just took off the paper and cut the screen to size. I think much smalller squares and it would have been a pain pulling stuff thorugh, and with this I can reach my fingers from below to grab leaves above and pull through.

Good luck, and when it's all done pics.

 

[smoote1987]

I don't know the exact way of doing it, but I was thinking of rain gutters. Setting the pots up on blocks, with grating on top, or just the blocks, doesn't really matter, ten maybe have two raingutters butted up next to eachother and have them at a slight angle to collect at one end. Just cap them at that end and either make a spout you can pour into a bucket, or just have a cap you can remove to drain the water into something to transport it.

Also about the screen you can use whatever you want, but I really love the material I got. They might not have it where you live, but it was backing for a stucco wall. It had construction paper all interwoven with the 2"x2" mesh, I just took off the paper and cut the screen to size. I think much smalller squares and it would have been a pain pulling stuff thorugh, and with this I can reach my fingers from below to grab leaves above and pull through.

Good luck, and when it's all done pics.

Good idea with the gutters Jig. One for each row of pots is perfect. Just pick up a moderate sized bucket when you get the gutters for you to collect all the drainage in. I don't think you would have to raise the gutters too high on the one side maybe like 1/2 an inch maybe less.

Hmm i don't think i would have liked removing the extra material from the mesh you used, is it particularly malleable? The spacing of the holes you described makes it seem that if it were easy to work with and had particular structural stability it would be an ideal screen with out the extra material.

Moose88 i just went to the garden section of the hardware store and asked where the chicken wire was. They showed me right to it and there was plenty to chose from. Choose your screen material wisely, you should think about how you will be placing and mounting your screen in your grow when you pick a meterial.

There are several hole spacings to choose from. Choose one that you think will be the easiest for your hand to work with, Haha meaning make sure your fingers can fit through the screen's hole holding a twig or something .

At my super hardware store there were these inexpensive green steel posts made for holding the chicken wires sitting next to the them. You could probably use these with a cinderblock or two to hold up your screen. You will have to place a few vertical posts around the pots as a skeleton for the scrog. From there its up to you how you attach the chicken wire to the posts, i have never used the posts, so i cannot comment on how to use them with the chicken wire. Ask a garden employee how to use the posts and hopefully that will give you ideas. The shape of you screen is up to you as well. If those posts are too heavy duty for you, i used wooden doweling rods, zip ties, and chicken wire to form my screens.

A word of advise i would stay away from the metal chicken wire with hexagonal holes. This screen is very resilient and retains its curled shape. Unless you use a pretty heavy or particularly sturdy post this chicken wire will pull your posts inward like a spring. Personal experience... stupid chicken wire

Hope this helps.

edit: thanks for the rep man

 

[moose88]

your welcome and thank you i also wenttot he hardware store got some green plastice mesh although i haeto cut it to 2x2 iits plastic flixble but has some rigidity 8 bucks for mor then i need as for deainagi ive got a piece of board that is alittle smaller then the closet and ive cut holes in the tops where iwant my puts to sut my pots (3gal) have a strong lip on them and ill slide them into the holes and below ill just have muffin trays belw each pt to cath any runioff if any thank you guys bot alot much love and when i begin my journal look out for it ill send you two links when it has started

 

[jigfresh]

your welcome and thank you i also wenttot he hardware store got some green plastice mesh although i haeto cut it to 2x2 iits plastic flixble but has some rigidity 8 bucks for mor then i need as for deainagi ive got a piece of board that is alittle smaller then the closet and ive cut holes in the tops where iwant my puts to sut my pots (3gal) have a strong lip on them and ill slide them into the holes and below ill just have muffin trays belw each pt to cath any runioff if any thank you guys bot alot much love and when i begin my journal look out for it ill send you two links when it has started

I'll be looking forward to that. Good luck.

 

[smoote1987]

your welcome and thank you i also wenttot he hardware store got some green plastice mesh although i haeto cut it to 2x2 iits plastic flixble but has some rigidity 8 bucks for mor then i need as for deainagi ive got a piece of board that is alittle smaller then the closet and ive cut holes in the tops where iwant my puts to sut my pots (3gal) have a strong lip on them and ill slide them into the holes and below ill just have muffin trays belw each pt to cath any runioff if any thank you guys bot alot much love and when i begin my journal look out for it ill send you two links when it has started

Sounds like you got it down, i look forward to it as well.

GL

 

[smoote1987]

Well i just wanted to give you guys an update to this question. I went with the 100 w metal halide. Turns out it was only 59.99 and not the 68 something, so i couldn't resist. I'm trying something a little new... I really don't like typing so i tried taking my notes directly on the pictures. I also explain things better visually. So hopefully you guys will be able to read it. If you guys can't read the notes just let me know and i'll gladly type them out. Well here goes....

Edit: I also have two last upgrades to make to the grow room. I will be replacing the cloning rack on the right with a shelf that has no legs. Also i will be changing the round buckets for these rectangular buckets that will be better suited for my thin space. They maintain the same volume however with smaller dimensions width wise.