SoG Grow Room Discussion
- Thread starter SOG
- Start date
Picasso345
Well-Known Member
SOG
Well-Known Member
[youtube]_SDorIv81CA[/youtube]
Thanks Picasso
yes i have researched this unit!
the top part of the concept is pretty neat
i believe will work flawlessly eventually (this is prototype/first gen)
what i didn't like about this unit is what happens at the bottom!
the added water treatment needed for this system to work efficiently
the need for a chiller and few other things to make sure it works
including a constant source of water supply (due to water evaporation)
which also presents the option of a flood, and other unwanted conditions
you will also need to add another output on your existing gas line
and tap this system into it, which means you will need a professional doing it!
to many unwanted variables, opted out this one
went with the safest method of filling up CO2 tanks when needed
got two large tanks, one in use the other is full and in standby; FIFO style
headbandrocker
Well-Known Member
great thread subscribed!
I have one... everything SOG says is true - but it works really well and looks cool as hell!
I have the propane version - though I wish I would have waited for the natural gas version that is out now. I understand it can be retro fitted by the factory. In winter, I was able to use it with a 35 gallon res without a chiller. I am currently using it with a 20 gallon res and a 1/10th chiller... I couldn't resist it when I saw it - $340 bucks seemed like a steal - but when you factor in a res, pump and cooling/heat exchange, the cost is up there! Again - the performance is incredible - adjustable from 12K to 36K BTU's - it can grow with you and your space. If you had a swimming pool or large body of water near - it would be the best... if you devote your whole house to a grow - you can run it in the bathtub using your RO waste water - works great!!!The tanks are great as they run cool and silent, and with the proper tubing you can drop the CO2 right on the plants, but hauling tanks down to the brewery gets old too and adds another possible point of visibility towards your grow. CO2 is still a bit rough - I think the Hydrogen is a step towards the future of CO2 supplementation but it is a first gen gadget as SOG pointed out. I understand they will be releasing one that does not require water cooling - designed for hobby size grows. They just released an inexpensive CO2 monitor/contoller too - it looks like it was made by Apple.
greenthumb111
Well-Known Member
Hate when I do that.
Here is the link
http://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm?product=2174&special=new THx for the youtube demo too.
Here is the linkhttp://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm?product=2174&special=new THx for the youtube demo too.
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
sweet
when are they releasing the version without needing the res? or whichever one that was aimed at smaller ops?
when are they releasing the version without needing the res? or whichever one that was aimed at smaller ops?
Old Frog
Well-Known Member
Clean setup, Lions. A few questions.
-How long had those SUs been vegging for up until this point?
-How much and how often will you gas them with that HydroGEN?
-Can you give a better cost estimate of what it might run to put something like that into operation? Under $1000 USD after everything?
-Can anyone give me some rough percentage improvement yield-wise per watt of light when using a Co2 regimen as opposed to nothing at all? 25%? 40%? 2gpw?
(obviously in some optimal SoG-specific soil, hydro or coco scenario)
Thanks.
People have them now - but not sure if they are officially available... soon. Hydro Innovations is the company - they have a site, etc. Your local hydro store may have more info.
Here they are at 3.14.2009 - wilted almost to death as I switched out a DRT-1 and forgot to change it to 24hr from Day operation - duh! At at that point, the smaller cuts were rooted but not on nutes yet, the bigger cuts had been on nutes for about a week I think. The two batches were taken 10 days apart - but I swapped up a few slow rooters from the second batch to the first... The first batch has been in the flower unit (still vegging on half wattage light) since last Thursday. I put the second flower unit in action last night.Clean setup, Lions. A few questions.
-How long had those SUs been vegging for up until this point?
-How much and how often will you gas them with that HydroGEN?
-Can you give a better cost estimate of what it might run to put something like that into operation? Under $1000 USD after everything?
-Can anyone give me some rough percentage improvement yield-wise per watt of light when using a Co2 regimen as opposed to nothing at all? 25%? 40%? 2gpw?
(obviously in some optimal SoG-specific soil, hydro or coco scenario)
Thanks.
I hook the Hydrogen up to a CO2 controller set at 1600PPM - during the daylight hours the controller will emit as needed - I have the deadband set at 100. It was using a Cap controller but in my new Stink room I have the Sentinel CHHC-1 to handle CO2 and environment.
Here is a general price breakdown to get you running - though there are many options...
The cheapest and most efficient method is to use the Hydrogen with an existing big body of water - like a swimming pool or pond, etc. In this mode you just need the Hydrogen $340, plus a good pump like a little giant $140 - some hosing, and of course a CO2 monitor - $250 - $750. I suppose you could use some sort of timer to turn the pump off and on but that is not efficient and you could easily over gas yourself as this baby puts out!
For most people you will hve to use some sort of res... to get away with passive cooling, you will need a 100 gallon res or more depending upon how much CO2 you need to generate. The cheapest 100 gallon res you can get is a kiddie pool - but they are flimsy and have a big footprint. A quality 100 gallon res will run you $200+. You can use a smaller res (as small as 5 gallons), but you then need to use a chiller... so a 35 gallon Brute trash can is about $40 and a 1/10 HP chiller is about $300. Add tax, labor and misc tubing, and hardware - and either a gas hook up or a propane tank and you can get close to a $1000.
Here is my setup:
Hydrogen - $340
Brute 20 gallon trash can - $20
Little Giant 50500 - $130
EcoPlus 200 GPH pump - $20
ActiveAqua 1/10 chiller - $330
Tax and labor - $priceless
CO2 typically adds 10 - 30+% to your yield... Stink was doing about 12 oz per rack without CO2 and then went to 16 oz per rack with CO2... but now he gets 27 ox per rack and his next harvest will supposedly be even bigger! I have seen about a 20% increase myself - but it is hard for me to compare as I keep changing things up...
Old Frog
Well-Known Member
Ah, it was the 1/10 Chiller I'd not taken into account... thanks for the cost breakdown. Looks like that or something similar will be part of a lump upgrade including R/O system and environmental control...
Glad you were able to save those clones! Another 12-24 hours and they'd've been toast for sure.
I know what you mean about constantly changing game plans... Are you running two 1000w HPS over those six aero arms in the picture?
"Tax and labor - $priceless,"
Glad you were able to save those clones! Another 12-24 hours and they'd've been toast for sure.
I know what you mean about constantly changing game plans... Are you running two 1000w HPS over those six aero arms in the picture?
"Tax and labor - $priceless,"
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
yea sentinel products kicks ass period
SOG
Well-Known Member
Thanks Lions, beautiful work man
you make it look so good, makes me want grab one myself; its so clean
Yo Frog - they're 600's - running at 240 - through Cap ML4X and Quantum dimmable ballasts - as I am so late to flower them (wanted to do so at 12"), I have been running them on only 300 watts - or 50% power. The Quantum ballasts are really flexible in that regard! I like the feature - they are generator ready and come with both the 120 and 240 cords... supposedly, these are the ballasts Advanced Nutrients was going to release and somebody with itchy fingers took the plans to China and had them produced first. More first gen stuff! They have a fan in them that is kind of loud... I have been told that you can simply unplug this fan for silent running, but I wonder if that first gen China circuitry actually needs that cooling! Running at 50% they are not even warm.Ah, it was the 1/10 Chiller I'd not taken into account... thanks for the cost breakdown. Looks like that or something similar will be part of a lump upgrade including R/O system and environmental control...
Glad you were able to save those clones! Another 12-24 hours and they'd've been toast for sure.
I know what you mean about constantly changing game plans... Are you running two 1000w HPS over those six aero arms in the picture?
"Tax and labor - $priceless,"
Old Frog
Well-Known Member
Thanks Lions, they looked a little dim to be 1000s, but the dimmability aspect is amazing to think about given the high wattage and potential for burning bulbs out prematurely. Very cool concept though. That makes two out of two nifty new 1st gen. gadgets I'd like to research more that you happen to have and share knowledge about.
Here's a link to one for sale on ebay with detailed description (for anyone else).
Is the fan just shoddy Chinese manufacture, or is it the housing that makes so much noise? Why have a fan in a digital ballast? I thought they ran substantially cooler anyway?
No topping or bending of the plants due to prolonged veg time? Looks like you're not lacking in ceiling space, so height may never be an issue for you...
Thanks, Bra! I think you have the right idea with your tank setup - as long as the tank refill is close and easy enough - running 2 big ones as you are sounds solid!Thanks Lions, beautiful work man
you make it look so good, makes me want grab one myself; its so clean
Just a couple more thoughts - the Hydrogen may seem less appealing... I can deal - but this really is not for everyone - and if SUPER SEALED is your goal - go with tanks for sure!
Remember - the water chiller or passive res, needs to either be exhausted (as I will do), or placed outside the grow room as the heat generated by the Hydrogen has to go somewhere! A quote form the manual: "A 100 gallon tub of 100 degree water in your grow room is like having a furnace set at 100!" I may have misquoted that a bit ha ha - but in general that is the idea... having to remove this heat from the zone could be major headache for some layouts.
Far and away the biggest issue for me is having to have propane in any proximity of HID lighting and possible fire hazards, etc. They provide you with a 12' hose for the propane and it is of pro caliber. I have an ultra-safe specially wired room - 240, 5 circuits, the works - but I still sketch out about it - crazy shit happens! I just heard about a poor bastard in San Diego - had some drunk driver crash through a wall of his house and expose his grow - guess who got busted! To have a propane tank explode in the house.. whew - serious stuff. The natural gas option makes it as safe as your stove or gas heater.
Again - it is a great step forward in CO2 generation - but be sure you consider this thing from the top. The website has PDF's with detailed installation options.
Thanks again, SOG - great thread!
But it looks cool!
headbandrocker
Well-Known Member
Cant wait! All right Sogers
I have 1 Vsog question ,
Is there any benifit to doing a multi bucket system {ebb n flow/dwc/aero}
In a multi tiered vertical octagon around 3 1k aircooled vertical lights?
Could fit lots more than flat.
also
I have a homade vertical octogon im playing with,but would like to max out yields with the octo method.{this only has 6o sites and needs 1mo veg to pull 5}
i have also drawn up a vertical 448 site vert coli/cage made with 3" pvc wyes on castors racks that can be wheeled closer or further from light source.In octi shape A shrub sprayer feeds top of stack and runs to a remote res.Cost of wyes is high but,could this work?
This doesnt have to be that many but hey i think it uses close to 4 plants per sq ft.
And if each plant yielded 14 gr you would have 14 elbos,or 1o lbs @1ogr off three 1ooo watt lights.Heres some ideas please share any thoughts!
These tubes could also hang from hooks.Cheers
I have 1 Vsog question ,
Is there any benifit to doing a multi bucket system {ebb n flow/dwc/aero}
In a multi tiered vertical octagon around 3 1k aircooled vertical lights?
Could fit lots more than flat.
also
I have a homade vertical octogon im playing with,but would like to max out yields with the octo method.{this only has 6o sites and needs 1mo veg to pull 5}
i have also drawn up a vertical 448 site vert coli/cage made with 3" pvc wyes on castors racks that can be wheeled closer or further from light source.In octi shape A shrub sprayer feeds top of stack and runs to a remote res.Cost of wyes is high but,could this work?
This doesnt have to be that many but hey i think it uses close to 4 plants per sq ft.
And if each plant yielded 14 gr you would have 14 elbos,or 1o lbs @1ogr off three 1ooo watt lights.Heres some ideas please share any thoughts!
These tubes could also hang from hooks.Cheers
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LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
i think a fan in a ballast is just trouble. more parts, more problems.
i love lumateks
although, Quantum is sounding nice with the dim feature, i coulda sworn i've seen a dimmer specially made for ballast...ill have to find it again. i just am wary (sp) of fans.
i also like the new NextGEN ballast...those look nice and small...a friend of mine has both the lumatek and the nextgen he said he still likes the lumatek....
i love lumateks
although, Quantum is sounding nice with the dim feature, i coulda sworn i've seen a dimmer specially made for ballast...ill have to find it again. i just am wary (sp) of fans.
i also like the new NextGEN ballast...those look nice and small...a friend of mine has both the lumatek and the nextgen he said he still likes the lumatek....