The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

I've talked to Jack Peters and tend to go along with his approach: http://www.jacksclassic.com/blossom_booster.html

What's funny is he admitted that their amount of P in that mix is still high, that a plant really doesn't need that much P to support good flowering. The issue is whether it will cause an antagonistic effect of other elements, which the <30> doesn't seem to do.

UB
 
i use a generic chem 3-part from a local hydro chain - brew n grow
but for flower i use half chem ferts and half fox farm organic with a tiny amount of roots organic HP2. theres some other additives but this is about n-p-k ratios.

base - 1.6-1.8-7.4 w/micro's
grow - 2.8-0-0
bloom - 0-7-4

big bloom - .01-.3-.7
hp2 - 0-4-0
 
SlikWiLL13 said:
i use a generic chem 3-part from a local hydro chain - brew n grow
but for flower i use half chem ferts and half fox farm organic with a tiny amount of roots organic HP2. theres some other additives but this is about n-p-k ratios.

base - 1.6-1.8-7.4 w/micro's
grow - 2.8-0-0
bloom - 0-7-4

big bloom - .01-.3-.7
hp2 - 0-4-0
Click to expand...

Good. Adding up all your goodies, what NPK values does the plant actually "see"? That's the bottom line,

Tio
 
i have 4.4-1.8-7.4 starting for veg, and i work it over to 1.7-6.1-8.1 by week 4-5 of flower. i get a little more N out of my 2-0-0 cal-mag but thats basically it. im considering switching to HPK in seeks 6 & 7 instead of the HP2, i think its something like 0-4-8 compared to 0-4-0.
 
I don't see any 10-30-10 (1-3-1) discussed. Still too high in P?

I'm getting decent buds, but am also losing almost all but the smaller, bud leaves before harvest time (on one strain only, of 3) and they are starting to shed way too early. I'm just now trying boosting the N at 1st watering after stretch. We'll see?
 
SlikWiLL13 said:
i have 4.4-1.8-7.4 starting for veg....
Click to expand...

Is that for soil or water culture?

MrFishy said:
I don't see any 10-30-10 (1-3-1) discussed. Still too high in P?
Click to expand...

2 issues at work like I said:

1. Too much P creates an antagonistic environment that tends to lock out other elements,

2. How much P is actually required to support good flowering and will the plant still uptake sufficient N to prevent premature leaf drop?

I'm getting decent buds, but am also losing almost all but the smaller, bud leaves before harvest time (on one strain only, of 3) and they are starting to shed way too early. I'm just now trying boosting the N at 1st watering after stretch. We'll see?
Click to expand...
I rest my case...... :mrgreen:
 
im using the flora micro & bloom combined its 5-5-5 and i used bud blood the last week of veg up to the first week of flower and the numbers were hella high with no ill effects they actually blew up twice as big bud bloods something like 0-39-20..and now im about to start feeding em big buds every other watering and thats 0-15-40 combined with the flora so it's ganna be 5-20-45 with some mollases to so it might b just a tad higher than that
 
Uncle Ben said:
I've got a question that has plagued me for a long time - why is it hydro "grow" foods are usually higher in K than N?
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i dont know...its a pretty cheap mix that performs pretty well for me. ive never had any problems with it other than a Mg deficiency with Northern Lights, but the calmag helps that.
 
Can anyone tell me why the K and N values are usually reversed for hydro "grow" foods? A plant should not "see" a higher K value than N for good, healthy foliage production and maintenance.

K [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"helps plants overcome drought stress; improves winter hardiness; increased disease resistance; improves the rigidity of stalks; leaches from soil; mobile in plant" as opposed to N which is a[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]bsorbed as NO3-, NH4+; responsible for rapid foliage growth and green color; easily leaches from soil, especially NO3-; mobile in plant, moving to new growth"[/FONT]
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html

Tio
 
*just speculation* could it be because with hydroponics your constantly replacing the nutrient solution in direct contact with the roots? making the fact the N leaches easily from the soil kind of a moot point?

does that make sense? i just woke up minutes ago so it kinda makes sense to me.
 
Uncle Ben said:
I've got a question that has plagued me for a long time - why is it hydro "grow" foods are usually higher in K than N?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that N is different in soil than hydro. In soil it is hard to keep the N in the soil. My dad grew corn on a farm when I was a kid and he would say he needed to add more N than P and K because the N would leave the soil on its own while the P and K would only go away if the plant ate it. So if he used 20% more P and K than the corn needed next year it would still be there and he could used 20% less P and K but would need to add 100% N each year regardless of last year.
I grow weed hydroponically and I maintain N levels that are consistent because the plant always gets fresh measured nutes. I need less N because I am not trying to compensate for lost N. The N is never more than 2 weeks old.
What do you think of this explanation? My dad is a farmer not a scientist so maybe my info is wrong? But I think the logic and info sounds good to me.

On another note: I have been reading this thread and the thing that confuses me is that in the Al. B. Faqt he says he get 20% more by using the PK boost in the 6th week of flowering. Is he compensating for a deficiency or did the PK boost make bigger buds? If it was a deficiency than why not use the PK boost the whole time? If not a deficiency than this goes against the give the plants what they need, they will only use what they need idea. An idea I like.
 
curious.george said:
On another note: I have been reading this thread and the thing that confuses me is that in the Al. B. Faqt he says he get 20% more by using the PK boost in the 6th week of flowering. Is he compensating for a deficiency or did the PK boost make bigger buds? If it was a deficiency than why not use the PK boost the whole time? If not a deficiency than this goes against the give the plants what they need, they will only use what they need idea. An idea I like.
Click to expand...


my thoughts on this are that there is a large greay area in between deficiency and toxicity. you can be at the lower end of this grey area with perfectly healthy plants or be at the high end and have huge healthy plants.

i dont completely buy the "give them only what they need" thing. a person can survive off 2000 calories a day(theyre just numbers, im no dietician), thrive off 2500, and be unhealthy with 3000 or more. giving plants just what they need sounds like the 2000 calorie route to me. as much as i dont condone the 3000, doesnt 2500 sound ideal?
 
curious.george said:
My understanding is that N is different in soil than hydro. In soil it is hard to keep the N in the soil.
Click to expand...

Nitrates leach, ammonical forms of N don't.

On another note: I have been reading this thread and the thing that confuses me is that in the Al. B. Faqt he says he get 20% more by using the PK boost in the 6th week of flowering. Is he compensating for a deficiency or did the PK boost make bigger buds?
Click to expand...
Depends on the mass and health of his leaves which PK boosters generally don't support. They support some hydro vendor's bank account at the expense of a grower's crop.

Perhaps he is like so many who forget what produces bud in favor of forum hype?

UB
 
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