iloveit
Well-Known Member
Oh! He he.
Root Development vs Plant Growth
- Thread starter skunkushybrid
- Start date
Oh! He he.Hi Uncle Ben
I haven't been able to get Spin Out unless I buy 2.5 gal @ $65 per gallon but I did order a gallon of MicroKote. I was told that the person who developed it also developed Griffin's SpinOut which was purchased by a company called Sepro. Here is what the MicroKote people have to say. I would appreciate anything you may add Cheers..
ps info is from www.nipanllc.com
MicroKote™
Improving micronutrient nutrition and root development
MicroKote™ is designed to improve nutrition and root development of plants grown in containers. MicroKote contains calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese and zinc bound in a latex coating to provide delayed release of the nutrients when the roots reach the sides of the container. Typically, container-grown plants develop circled and matted roots, a condition known as "root bound". Once transplanted, this can lead to poor root regrowth into the surrounding soil unless the root bound condition is corrected by mechanical root pruning prior to transplanting. Unfortunately, root-pruning causes transplant shock; where up to 80% of the root system can be damaged resulting in slower growth and sometimes death. MicroKote promotes the development of a fibrous root system, which requires little to no mechanical root pruning at transplanting. Other benefits such as improved growth in height, branches, and caliper and flower number due to improved nutrition and fibrous root development can occur. To fully achieve these benefits, the product must be properly applied and used at key stages of nursery production.
Building a better root system to support better growth.
Published information on using coatings that contain copper to improve root development has generally focused on using products at one stage of nursery production. As a stand-alone product, MicroKote will not always improve plant growth unless used in at least one shifting or transplanting step. When plants grown in MicroKote-treated containers are transplanted to larger containers, or lined out in the field, the improved root structure supports quicker root regeneration, which ultimately supports better growth. This improved root regeneration results from building a more fibrous root system with more intact root tips that have a higher regeneration potential. MicroKote prevents the "cage root" condition where roots are only present on the outside of the root ball. Instead, the roots explore and utilize all the available potting media. An improvement in root distribution can lead to an improvement in the nutrient status and health of the plant which will support quicker growth when upcanned or transplanted.
Start Early
To maximize the benefits of MicroKote, start early in plant production. MicroKote can be used at any stage of plant development from seedlings and cuttings to large trees in 100-gallon pots. The micronutrients in the coating will improve the health of cuttings supporting a stronger initial flush when transplanted. Improving root development in the propagation phase will greatly reduce the development of girdling roots as the plant ages. Seedlings and cuttings started in treated containers or cell packs, develop fine, fibrous roots with many root tips. This prepares a new plant for better growth compared to plants with sparse, unbranched roots. Cuttings rooted in MicroKote treated pots will also initiate more roots directly from the callus on cuttings. A plant with a more evenly developed root system will be able to support better growth in the nursery and transplant well to the landscape.
Time in the container
It is true that a plant can be left in a MicroKote-treated container for a longer period of time compared to non-treated containers. However, MicroKote is NOT a substitute for upcanning. Since plants in MicroKote-treated containers are able to exploit all the soil in a container and utilize a reservoir of micronutrients, it is possible to delay shifting for a few months in most climates. In climates with long growing seasons, this time may be shorter, especially for vigorous species. Plants kept in MicroKote-treated containers past full root development will not grow as quickly when shifted as plants shifted at the proper time. Plants shifted before they become root bound will have the best root regeneration and growth potential. Improved root regeneration combined with multiple growth "flushes" will delay the development of dormant buds until late in the growing season. This growth effect has been demonstrated using red oak seedlings grown under an accelerated program where plants are shifted at an optimum stage
I haven't been able to get Spin Out unless I buy 2.5 gal @ $65 per gallon but I did order a gallon of MicroKote. I was told that the person who developed it also developed Griffin's SpinOut which was purchased by a company called Sepro. Here is what the MicroKote people have to say. I would appreciate anything you may add Cheers..
ps info is from www.nipanllc.com
MicroKote™
Improving micronutrient nutrition and root development
MicroKote™ is designed to improve nutrition and root development of plants grown in containers. MicroKote contains calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese and zinc bound in a latex coating to provide delayed release of the nutrients when the roots reach the sides of the container. Typically, container-grown plants develop circled and matted roots, a condition known as "root bound". Once transplanted, this can lead to poor root regrowth into the surrounding soil unless the root bound condition is corrected by mechanical root pruning prior to transplanting. Unfortunately, root-pruning causes transplant shock; where up to 80% of the root system can be damaged resulting in slower growth and sometimes death. MicroKote promotes the development of a fibrous root system, which requires little to no mechanical root pruning at transplanting. Other benefits such as improved growth in height, branches, and caliper and flower number due to improved nutrition and fibrous root development can occur. To fully achieve these benefits, the product must be properly applied and used at key stages of nursery production.
Building a better root system to support better growth.
Published information on using coatings that contain copper to improve root development has generally focused on using products at one stage of nursery production. As a stand-alone product, MicroKote will not always improve plant growth unless used in at least one shifting or transplanting step. When plants grown in MicroKote-treated containers are transplanted to larger containers, or lined out in the field, the improved root structure supports quicker root regeneration, which ultimately supports better growth. This improved root regeneration results from building a more fibrous root system with more intact root tips that have a higher regeneration potential. MicroKote prevents the "cage root" condition where roots are only present on the outside of the root ball. Instead, the roots explore and utilize all the available potting media. An improvement in root distribution can lead to an improvement in the nutrient status and health of the plant which will support quicker growth when upcanned or transplanted.
Start Early
To maximize the benefits of MicroKote, start early in plant production. MicroKote can be used at any stage of plant development from seedlings and cuttings to large trees in 100-gallon pots. The micronutrients in the coating will improve the health of cuttings supporting a stronger initial flush when transplanted. Improving root development in the propagation phase will greatly reduce the development of girdling roots as the plant ages. Seedlings and cuttings started in treated containers or cell packs, develop fine, fibrous roots with many root tips. This prepares a new plant for better growth compared to plants with sparse, unbranched roots. Cuttings rooted in MicroKote treated pots will also initiate more roots directly from the callus on cuttings. A plant with a more evenly developed root system will be able to support better growth in the nursery and transplant well to the landscape.
Time in the container
It is true that a plant can be left in a MicroKote-treated container for a longer period of time compared to non-treated containers. However, MicroKote is NOT a substitute for upcanning. Since plants in MicroKote-treated containers are able to exploit all the soil in a container and utilize a reservoir of micronutrients, it is possible to delay shifting for a few months in most climates. In climates with long growing seasons, this time may be shorter, especially for vigorous species. Plants kept in MicroKote-treated containers past full root development will not grow as quickly when shifted as plants shifted at the proper time. Plants shifted before they become root bound will have the best root regeneration and growth potential. Improved root regeneration combined with multiple growth "flushes" will delay the development of dormant buds until late in the growing season. This growth effect has been demonstrated using red oak seedlings grown under an accelerated program where plants are shifted at an optimum stage
I visited http://www.horticulturespecialties.com/ I talked to a nice guy named Jay who had no problems selling me a gallon of MicroKote. I should have it by this time next week for my next grow.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Unless you could devvy it up with a bunch of friends, that's alot of money. I noticed that firm has alot of different Spin-Out products, treated pots, fabric, etc.
This is really interesting but I'm confused as to how this product works. It seems to be a nutritional product. Does it also terminate root tips?
UB
In Jay's opinion it does the same thing only better. I'll try it on a few pots and let you know. All it takes is time. the Sepro people are kind of a pain in the ass to work with as far as getting small amounts of spinout to use. I would have tried the spinout coated buckets except that I wanted at least the 5 gallon size. According to the label Spinout contains 7.6% Copper Hydroxide as you well know. MicroKote contains 10% copper derived from copper carbonate along with the other trace elements listed. I am not nearly educated enough in plant biology or chemistry to know the difference between the two coppers and how they affect root development.
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
I really don't think there would be any difference between the actions of those two copper forms.. Neither is really water soluable, so action would be far too slow to notice the pH differences caused by the hydroxide vs carbonate, and root systems are loaded with those ions anyways..
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
They both should slough off Cu ions. Griffin's uses the hydroxide form which I would think would be more active than the carbonate form, maybe not. The issue here is whether or not this coating terminates root tips, which is what Griffin's is designed to do. How can you terminate root tips and still translocate nutrional elements? With Griffin's the copper ions reside within one cm of the painted wall and are not translocated into the root as there is no root tissue available at that point to do the translocating. If Cu was translocated the plant might die of Cu toxicity. The root tip enters into the Cu impregnated zone, is terminated which induces secondary and lateral branching behind the tip, reason why the rootball is so fibrous. Check it out, about half way down the page - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
It's "topping" but done underground, chemically not mechanically.
This would take a quick phone call to a tech if you're up to it bdonson.
Tio Bendejo
Just talked to Jay @ www.horticulturespecialties.com 734-878-1814. Nice guy,, seems to know what he's talking about. In his opinion MicroKote works better than Spinout He says if chemically pruning roots and promoting secondary root growth is the goal then MicroKote will work great. Another big factor is that Jay will sell and ship a gallon at a time. I haven't been able to find anyone to do the same with spinout. Spent over a couple of weeks emailing back and forth with Sepro, finally called and asked to buy a gallon because event Sepro couldn't find anyone to sell me one, was tranferred to a voicemail that never called back. really irritating, still kind of pissed about it. In any event a gallon of Microkote should be here by Monday at the latest. Cheers
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
Its actually the Cu2+ ions that are doing the work.. I meant carbonate/hydroxide ions are already loaded into the soil..
And they're both roughly equally soluble in water, so its likely that they perform/migrate similarily.. Copper metal itself is MUCH more soluble, thus the risk of copper toxicity.. Ppl use mix a mixture of the two, or one, or the other with paint (Probably latex, but I don't know for sure), and paint the interiors of their greenhouse pots..
Most likely this accomplishes the same exact thing as the Griffin's.. Like I said, neither are water solubale so I would expect them to stay relatively in place with no proprietary stabilizer.. I can't say with certainty that Griffin's is as plain jane as a diy concoction, but that claim about the copper not dissolving/migrating, kind of sounds like Dasani advertizing that their bottled water is wet..
I have no qualms with the application though, 'topping' for the roots is a cool way to describe it
And they're both roughly equally soluble in water, so its likely that they perform/migrate similarily.. Copper metal itself is MUCH more soluble, thus the risk of copper toxicity.. Ppl use mix a mixture of the two, or one, or the other with paint (Probably latex, but I don't know for sure), and paint the interiors of their greenhouse pots..
Most likely this accomplishes the same exact thing as the Griffin's.. Like I said, neither are water solubale so I would expect them to stay relatively in place with no proprietary stabilizer.. I can't say with certainty that Griffin's is as plain jane as a diy concoction, but that claim about the copper not dissolving/migrating, kind of sounds like Dasani advertizing that their bottled water is wet..
I have no qualms with the application though, 'topping' for the roots is a cool way to describe it
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Nope. The copper ions should not migrate past a cm from the painted surface. The last thing you want is them "loaded into the soil." If you don't terminate the root tips, you don't understand the concept.//// I can't say with certainty that Griffin's is as plain jane as a diy concoction, but that claim about the copper not dissolving/migrating, kind of sounds like Dasani advertizing that their bottled water is wet..
bdonson, sounds like hooey. I'll give the guy a call.
What does the action of copper ions which terminate root tips have to do with nutrition?
Apples and orangutans
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
I realize thats what you want.. My point is that the immobility is to be expected with copper hydroxide/carbonate.. They're really insoluble.. Making those stay put is no braggable task, they pretty much do that by themselves..
And I suppose they could toss some more mobile things like micros into the mix.. They could migrate into the soil while the majority of copper in OH/CO3 form would stay put.. I don't know if I'd want micros in that or not.. Alot of ppl have issues with Ca & Mg imbalances as it is.. Too many multitasking garden products are bound to conflict..
And I suppose they could toss some more mobile things like micros into the mix.. They could migrate into the soil while the majority of copper in OH/CO3 form would stay put.. I don't know if I'd want micros in that or not.. Alot of ppl have issues with Ca & Mg imbalances as it is.. Too many multitasking garden products are bound to conflict..
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Doesn't make sense to me for several reasons -
1. No root tip termination occurs,
2. What is so magical about these elements that any normal plant food (or decent soil) doesn't already provide? It's a given that P supports good root production, but these micros?
Excuse me but I question the hell out of things before taking the plunge, it's just my nature.
bdonson, ya gotta do a control group for us, eh.
Good luck,
UB
1. No root tip termination occurs,
2. What is so magical about these elements that any normal plant food (or decent soil) doesn't already provide? It's a given that P supports good root production, but these micros?
Excuse me but I question the hell out of things before taking the plunge, it's just my nature.
bdonson, ya gotta do a control group for us, eh.
Good luck,
UB
I'm sure it would be better for you, Uncle Ben to talk to Jay at Horticulture Specialties because for starters you two can understand somuch better what each other is saying as well as ask pertinent questions. I have much to learn about plant biology and rely on those more learned for my info. Jay told me that yes it does terminate root ends just like spinout only in his opinion it did a better job. The why or how is beyond my level of understanding at this point. Long story short Please give the guy a call and report back what you think. Yup I'm going to give it a try but I would love to hear your thoughts as well. Plus it seems to be so much more readily available to many of us who would try a gallon instead of a 2 1/2. Cheers.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Will do........
You know Unk, based on your recomendation I got copy of Jorge's Growers Bible. Sure enough there you are. So much great info. But when I think about all that I've put into this little hobby of mine, trying to grow the sweetest Lizard weed on the planet I think of the person who had it all together when he spaeketh the famous words and I quote " Hey, It's just a fucking weed". LMAO every time. Cheers ps. got to go check my ph and then water.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Thanks, but not everything Jorge has in that book is 100% accurate but all in all it's a great book. For example if you take a look at what he said Griffin's does, he got it all wrong. Root tips do not turn up. I wrote him about it. At least he got my photos right.
The section on lighting is worth the price of the book. It's the most comprehensive chapter I've ever seen, and the real life tests are great. Jorge was cool enough to autograph the book before it was released and mail it to me free gratis. Keep dem fuckin' weeds happy, ya hear!
Tio
Okay I got my gallon of MicroKote and painted all my 1gallon pots except one. great looking stuff, easy to apply, latex so easy to cleanup as well. I should get an idea of how well it's going to work when I transplant to 5 gallon buckets. 1gallon cost me less than $70 including shipping. 1 gallon will last me for years.