GOODTIMES09
Active Member
im not sure about this ive used foil all around but someone told me it will burn my plants use white board.... what should i do
Foil Vs white which ones better
- Thread starter GOODTIMES09
- Start date
Agent Smokealot
Active Member
Mylar emergendcy blankets 4' x 7' $1.99 at walmart. If not white paint over foil anyday. Foil can cause hot spots if you're not careful
Agent Out
Agent Out
KittenKiller
Well-Known Member
ya def mylar is ur best bet. then white paint. foil reflects heat.
TeaTreeOil
Well-Known Member
What kind of lights do you use?
Fluoros? It's fine. I can't really imagine any practical circumstance where you could create hot spots with fluoros & foils unless you really try.
HID? What's the distance? Too close and you may as well be putting multiple HIDs where your foil is(foil is that good, 90% visible reflectance, 95% IR, yes it reflects heat 5% better than it does light, but so do commercial aluminum reflectors.)
If you really want the best 3M makes this shit called ESR. Nearly 100% reflective in the visible spectrum. http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/electronics_mfg/vikuiti/node_7358GD8CMRbe/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_S6Q2FD9X0Jge/gvel_B6D4SWL5QCgl/theme_us_vikuiti_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html
Fluoros? It's fine. I can't really imagine any practical circumstance where you could create hot spots with fluoros & foils unless you really try.
HID? What's the distance? Too close and you may as well be putting multiple HIDs where your foil is(foil is that good, 90% visible reflectance, 95% IR, yes it reflects heat 5% better than it does light, but so do commercial aluminum reflectors.)
If you really want the best 3M makes this shit called ESR. Nearly 100% reflective in the visible spectrum. http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/electronics_mfg/vikuiti/node_7358GD8CMRbe/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_S6Q2FD9X0Jge/gvel_B6D4SWL5QCgl/theme_us_vikuiti_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html
TeaTreeOil
Well-Known Member
Why don't you make me.
GOODTIMES09
Active Member
well im using a 400 w MH light and my room is a four foot circle
Extortion22
Well-Known Member
dont listen to a word this guy says. he uses tinfoil and halogen lights.
Extortion22
Well-Known Member
use flat white paint or the mylar. cheapest way to go.
Brick Top
New Member
Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to ‘contain’ as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.
To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.
Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.
Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:
Foylon:
A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.
Mylar:
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film: (I'd sleep better at night if I had this.)
A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets:
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.
Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.
Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:
Foylon: A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.
Mylar: A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film: (I'd sleep better at night if I had this.)
A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets: These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
Brick Top
New Member
That percentage is in WHITE light. WHITE light is not of importance to plants, they do not 'see' light and they do not need WHITE light to grow, the spectrums of light plants use fall into the blue and red categories.
TeaTreeOil
Well-Known Member
90% is from 400 to 700 nm(PAR), at 400 it's ~91% and at 700 it's ~89% and is a near linear line between these two points. Thus 90%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflectivity Aluminum is the blue line in the graph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflectivity Aluminum is the blue line in the graph.
TeaTreeOil
Well-Known Member
That's interesting. From what I've seen most white roofing paint is well under 80% reflective in the visible spectrum. But it does have high far IR emissivity.
Extortion22
Well-Known Member
teatree your a retard, i wish it was possible to give bad rep. here you are on another poor guys thread giving false information again. LOOK AT YOUR STUPID GRAPHS. THEY ARE COMPARING ALUMINUM TO GOLD AND SILVER YOU DOUCHE> WHERE IS MYLAR OR WHITE PAINT ON YOUR CHARTS?!?!?!?! thats right they arent there. BECAUSE TINFOIL DOESNT COMP{ARE TO WHITE PAINT. you should close your account on this site.
TeaTreeOil
Well-Known Member
White paint would be well below, as the reflection is diffuse.
Mylar(aluminum metalized PET fiber[glass]) would be about the same, as its radiant reflective properties are derived from aluminum.
White paint, or other diffuse materials aren't said to have classical reflectivity(as in a mirror image). They're said to have reflectance, or emissivity.
Most children stop name-calling around the age of twelve.
Mylar(aluminum metalized PET fiber[glass]) would be about the same, as its radiant reflective properties are derived from aluminum.
White paint, or other diffuse materials aren't said to have classical reflectivity(as in a mirror image). They're said to have reflectance, or emissivity.
Most children stop name-calling around the age of twelve.
Skunk Baxter
Well-Known Member
Damn! Brick top! You da man, dawg! +rep.
Any of you guys ever use that mylar Diamond Film? The mylar with the diamond texture to diffuse the light more evenly? I was thinking of picking up a roll of that, but at 150 bucks a roll, I figured I should ask around a little bit first and see if anyone had anything to say about it.
Any of you guys ever use that mylar Diamond Film? The mylar with the diamond texture to diffuse the light more evenly? I was thinking of picking up a roll of that, but at 150 bucks a roll, I figured I should ask around a little bit first and see if anyone had anything to say about it.
TeaTreeOil
Well-Known Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steradian
You are losing over 50% light intensity with a diffuse surface as compared to a specular surface. White paint emits light at around 90 some percent of all angles. A smooth metal surface will reflect them, the majority anyway, at the reflectance angle as defined by the incident angle.
You are losing over 50% light intensity with a diffuse surface as compared to a specular surface. White paint emits light at around 90 some percent of all angles. A smooth metal surface will reflect them, the majority anyway, at the reflectance angle as defined by the incident angle.
Brick Top
New Member
You want to act all informative and accurate and you rely on Wiki?
In case you do not know information on Wiki can be edited and is edited by others.
A writer tested Wiki a while back and wrote a biography of himself and his work and in less than one year every single word he wrote, that was all true, had been replaced by other people and it was all inaccurate.
Also the graph you used for your information said aluminum NOT aluminum foil.
You are making the inaccurate assumption that just because the word aluminum is used in aluminum foil that the reflective capabilities of aluminum foil is the same as aluminum.
What you seem to fail to know or understand is that there are different grades of aluminum, just as there are different grades of steel, and there are also aluminum alloys.
Not all reflect the same just because the word aluminum is used in all their names.
Aluminum foil is made from an aluminum alloy and is not pure aluminum nor is it the highest-grade aluminum.
As I said not everything that uses the word aluminum in it is the same or has the same reflective ability. Even if talking about one single grade of aluminum there are different ways of making it that result in different textured finishes. There is cast aluminum and there is continued cast aluminum and there is extruded aluminum. If you compare the different types you will see they are not the same and they do not have the same reflective capabilities.
Even among the different types/name brands of aluminum foil you will find differences since there is no set standard and they will range in quality of/grade of the aluminum and also in thickness which will range from 0.125 to 0.250 inch.
As I said to you in a different thread on this subject I have no interest in arguing with you so I will not waste my time replying to any more of your messages in this thread but you NEED to understand that just because something says aluminum in its name does not make it the exact same thing and have the exact same properties and reflective capabilities as high grade aluminum does.
You keep handing out inaccurate and horrible advice on this subject and you will mislead people by doing so and they very well may have anything from lower yields to their home burning down because aluminum foil if used with HID lighting is known fire hazard and you should really reconsider what you tell people when you are steering them wrong like you are and they will be the ones that end up with whatever problems come from following your inaccurate advice.
I just hope people here, or at least hope that most people here, are intelligent enough to ignore your misinformation and instead pay attention to the well known proven facts.
Have a nice day message ends.