What is Christ?

[Mammath]

....Sooooo...Yeah.

I never said I am close to Christ Consciousness but at least I know what Christ truly is about. Unlike every christian I have ever met or talked/typed with. Most Christians are Sheeple.

All Christians, ( Followers of Jesus CHRIST) are sheep, his sheep, and Jesus CHRIST is the good shepherd. Nothing new there Joe, nor is it a derogative statement if that what's your implying.

John 10:14 - Jesus says:
"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep...

Nothing wrong with being a 'sheepie', a follower of Jesus, the CHRIST!

 

[JoeBananas]

All Christians, ( Followers of Jesus CHRIST) are sheep, his sheep, and Jesus CHRIST is the good shepherd. Nothing new there Joe, nor is it a derogative statement if that what's your implying.

John 10:14 - Jesus says:
"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep...

Nothing wrong with being a 'sheepie', a follower of Jesus, the CHRIST!

Jesus IS a lie and your prison.
You will have better results following the teachings of Winnie the Pooh.

Sheeple, like slaves that are ignorant about their enslavement.

 

[Mammath]

Jesus IS a lie and your prison.
You will have better results following the teachings of Winnie the Pooh.

Sheeple, like slaves that are ignorant about their enslavement.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8.1-3

...if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Jn 8.34-37

...I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. Jn 10-10

Does that sound like slavery?

You have still failed to explain what you believe Joe.
You still havn't explained anything about 'your' belief.
I've been waiting this all this time through this thread for you to show some form of integrity and explain yourself, and 'your' belief about Christ.
Any idiot can say Christianity is a farce and the bible is a lie, but unless you can explain 'your' logical alternative, anything that comes out your mouth is merely piss and wind.
Quit with your immature, unfounded, belittling of a credible belief, and explain to everyone what you believe and why it's so damn right.

 

[JoeBananas]

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8.1-3

...if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Jn 8.34-37

...I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. Jn 10-10

Does that sound like slavery? YES Your mind is imprisoned by a book that ripped off all its stories from religions it views as satanic.

You have still failed to explain what you believe Joe.
this thread is about what christ is, not my beliefs.

You still havn't explained anything about 'your' belief.
Read above you redundant retarded rascal. lol.

I've been waiting this all this time through this thread for you to show some form of integrity and explain yourself, and 'your' belief about Christ.
lol not again
Any idiot can say Christianity is a farce and the bible is a lie, but unless you can explain 'your' logical alternative, anything that comes out your mouth is merely piss and wind.
Actually an idiot would follow the bible and call themselves a christian. Now that its common knowledge it contradicts itself and ripped off most if not all of its stories. Ya dummy.

Quit with your immature, unfounded, belittling of a credible belief, and explain to everyone what you believe and why it's so damn right.
First I would like you to reference a credible source. NOT THE BIBLE
Otherwise I am able to reference the Satanic Bible against your biblical quotes.

The bible is not a book to quote as a factual reference.

 

[TeaTreeOil]

Christ is how I feel right now.

I'm fucking wasted .

 

[Mammath]

(The bible is not a book to quote as a factual reference.)

Cop Out!
Is that your middle name Joe?
Or is it ‘shit stirrer’?
Maybe that’s your occupation?
What do you mean you don’t have to explain your beliefs? You started this thread, you asked the question, and you invited me!
Does that give you the right to hide behind the question? Certainly not!

Yet it has been quite obvious since the very beginning that you have an agenda.
So the question of “What is Christ’ was a rhetorical one?
Of course it was...
Especially now that your going to give reference to the ‘Satanic Bible’. Give me a break.


The ironic thing is that if it wasn’t for CHRIST, you wouldn’t be getting any feedback from me at all.
It’s CHRIST who cares about you, and your hopelessness.
Personally I don’t have a great deal of time to give to shit stirrers like you, but I know that there are genuine people out there interested in getting to the truth about Christ and I’m in this discussion for them, to a point. The rest will be up to them to do their own research.
As much as you need the guidance desperately, it seems your mind is 'ignorantly configured', and there is probably little hope that you are open to any truth other than your own distorted views.
God is not stupid, and he gives many over to there fruitless desires. Don’t expect him to chase after you for too long. He will get to the point where the pointless endeavours of some people, such as you, and your agenda based theologies, and absolutes, are not something he will continue to show interest in.

You may learn something if you stick around but I feel your not hear to have your questions answered, just to stir the pot because your bored, and have nothing better to do than to waste other peoples time because your life is so very pathetic.
You're here to steal from people their valuable time, with your attention seeking bullshit. You are a true 'fowler', and I assure you this thread is finite. You will need to think up another question, and start another thread, to get the sort of attention you so desperately crave.

Here are but a few references, not bible based, to the authenticity of the Bible and specifically the life of CHRIST.

Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), an historian of first-century Rome, is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world.
An excerpt from Tacitus tells us that the Roman emperor Nero "inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class...called Christians. ...Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus...."

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian (A.D. 38-100+), wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities. From Josephus, "we learn that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected."

Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, and Thallus, also wrote about Christian worship and persecution that is consistent with New Testament accounts.

Jewish Talmud, certainly not biased toward Jesus, concurs about the major events of his life. From the Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."

This is remarkable information considering that most ancient historians focused on political and military leaders, not on obscure rabbis from distant provinces of the Roman Empire. Yet ancient historians (Jews, Greeks and Romans) confirm the major events that are presented in the New Testament, even though they were not believers themselves.

Other than these references there are over 5000 ancient New Testament Greek Manuscripts in existence today that relate to the life of CHRIST. With the earliest written on papyrus and dating back to A.D. 100.


Not that any of this matters to you Joe because your mind was made up before you even asked the question 'What is Christ?'

You really need to do your own unbiased research into the subject before you try and discredit an historical document with nothing more than your inapt, unfounded opinion.

 

[joepro]

can't argue with everyone because they all have the right answers. Just ask.
Why debate something you don't believe in...why debate something that you do believe in.
We all have faith in something, even if that something is nothing. same difference.
The right answer is unattainable so how can someone be wrong and someone right.
I think the message is beauiful and the messagers are ugly.

 

[Brazko]

can't argue with everyone because they all have the right answers. Just ask.
Why debate something you don't believe in...why debate something that you do believe in.
We all have faith in something, even if that something is nothing. same difference.
The right answer is unattainable so how can someone be wrong and someone right.
I think the message is beauiful and the messagers are ugly.

Ahhh, the Absolute truth......Refreshing , thanks Joe

 

[Monolonof]

christ = freedom and love.

the Jewish faith had and has a way to get to Heaven. Christ showed a way to bring Heaven here, he spent his time with the social/religeous outcast, and was an example of freedom and love.

...to me. my faith can accept Jesus Christ meening different things to different people.

 

[JoeBananas]

(The bible is not a book to quote as a factual reference.)

Cop Out!
Is that your middle name Joe?
Or is it ‘shit stirrer’?
Maybe that’s your occupation?
What do you mean you don’t have to explain your beliefs? You started this thread, you asked the question, and you invited me!
Does that give you the right to hide behind the question? Certainly not!

Yet it has been quite obvious since the very beginning that you have an agenda.
So the question of “What is Christ’ was a rhetorical one?
Of course it was...
Especially now that your going to give reference to the ‘Satanic Bible’. Give me a break.


The ironic thing is that if it wasn’t for CHRIST, you wouldn’t be getting any feedback from me at all.
It’s CHRIST who cares about you, and your hopelessness.
Personally I don’t have a great deal of time to give to shit stirrers like you, but I know that there are genuine people out there interested in getting to the truth about Christ and I’m in this discussion for them, to a point. The rest will be up to them to do their own research.
As much as you need the guidance desperately, it seems your mind is 'ignorantly configured', and there is probably little hope that you are open to any truth other than your own distorted views.
God is not stupid, and he gives many over to there fruitless desires. Don’t expect him to chase after you for too long. He will get to the point where the pointless endeavours of some people, such as you, and your agenda based theologies, and absolutes, are not something he will continue to show interest in.

You may learn something if you stick around but I feel your not hear to have your questions answered, just to stir the pot because your bored, and have nothing better to do than to waste other peoples time because your life is so very pathetic.
You're here to steal from people their valuable time, with your attention seeking bullshit. You are a true 'fowler', and I assure you this thread is finite. You will need to think up another question, and start another thread, to get the sort of attention you so desperately crave.

Here are but a few references, not bible based, to the authenticity of the Bible and specifically the life of CHRIST.

Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), an historian of first-century Rome, is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world.
An excerpt from Tacitus tells us that the Roman emperor Nero "inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class...called Christians. ...Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus...."

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian (A.D. 38-100+), wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities. From Josephus, "we learn that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected."

Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, and Thallus, also wrote about Christian worship and persecution that is consistent with New Testament accounts.

Jewish Talmud, certainly not biased toward Jesus, concurs about the major events of his life. From the Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."

This is remarkable information considering that most ancient historians focused on political and military leaders, not on obscure rabbis from distant provinces of the Roman Empire. Yet ancient historians (Jews, Greeks and Romans) confirm the major events that are presented in the New Testament, even though they were not believers themselves.

Other than these references there are over 5000 ancient New Testament Greek Manuscripts in existence today that relate to the life of CHRIST. With the earliest written on papyrus and dating back to A.D. 100.


Not that any of this matters to you Joe because your mind was made up before you even asked the question 'What is Christ?'

You really need to do your own unbiased research into the subject before you try and discredit an historical document with nothing more than your inapt, unfounded opinion.

You fail to realize that jesus christ wasnt mentioned in any of those examples. You are seeing the origins of the lie but not putting it together like a smart cookie would.

 

[Mammath]

You fail to realize that jesus christ wasnt mentioned in any of those examples. You are seeing the origins of the lie but not putting it together like a smart cookie would.

I regret to inform you but...
That's not a smart cookie your baking there Joe, its a twisted cheese cookie.

Your feedback really lacks credibility and reeks of absolute, unsubstantiated denial.
You need to supply the sources of your theology before you sprout your mouth off.

You can't challenge these credible documents with; " origins of the lie"
without first giving some credibility to your statement in the form of a resource.

Where is your denial of 'Jesus as Christ' birthed from? Quote me the Satanic shit if you must. I'm familiar with that ol' chestnut.
But I am all ears...

 

[Mammath]

can't argue with everyone because they all have the right answers. Just ask.
Why debate something you don't believe in...why debate something that you do believe in.
We all have faith in something, even if that something is nothing. same difference.
The right answer is unattainable so how can someone be wrong and someone right.
I think the message is beauiful and the messagers are ugly.

I understand...some what.
But...
Why believe in something that isn't worth defending? To a degree.

This is about Christ...Christ.

'You can't hide under a rock with Christ, and go all 'melancholy' when someone asks such an important question as to; "Who is Christ?".

There is a logical answer.

 

[JoeBananas]

I regret to inform you but...
That's not a smart cookie your baking there Joe, its a twisted cheese cookie.Explain

Your feedback really lacks credibility and reeks of absolute, unsubstantiated denial.
You need to supply the sources of your theology before you sprout your mouth off.

You can't challenge these credible documents with; " origins of the lie"
without first giving some credibility to your statement in the form of a resource.

Where is your denial of 'Jesus as Christ' birthed from? Quote me the Satanic shit if you must. I'm familiar with that ol' chestnut.
But I am all ears...

I never tried to challenge a document. I challenge your interpretation of the documents. It appears you want them to say something they do not.

Since I proved you incorrect you 'talk shit' instead of showing me otherwise. Good job Smart cookie.

You really are stupid it seems. Read carefully and you will see that I was saying the bible is no better source than the satanic bible. I wasnt saying I would ever use it as a credible source. I was making a comparison.

Back to the historical mention of jesus christ.

Show me the place where 'jesus christ' was mentioned. You cannot.

 

[Mammath]

I never tried to challenge a document. I challenge your interpretation of the documents. It appears you want them to say something they do not.

Since I proved you incorrect you 'talk shit' instead of showing me otherwise. Good job Smart cookie.

You really are stupid it seems. Read carefully and you will see that I was saying the bible is no better source than the satanic bible. I wasnt saying I would ever use it as a credible source. I was making a comparison.

Back to the historical mention of jesus christ.

Show me the place where 'jesus christ' was mentioned. You cannot.

Hah.
Firstly, you have proved shit mate, and don't say I 'cannot' before I have a chance to reply. Wishful thinking on your behalf I believe.
Throughout this thread all you do is attempt to discredit Christianity and who Christ is with your bullshit responses based on 'your distorted head knowledge'.

Here's some interesting passages from these historical documents relating to Jesus Christ.

Tactius - " Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a
class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.
Christus, from who the name had it's origin, suffered the extreme
penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our
procurators, Pontius Pilatus".

Josephus - "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought
to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and
was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over
many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. When Pilate,
upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing among
us, had condemned him to be sacrificed, those who has in the first
place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the
third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of
God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things
about him"

Pliny the Younger - "I have asked them if they are Christians, and if they admit
it, I repeat the question a second and third time, with a
warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist. i
order them to be led away for execution; for, whatever the
nature of their admission, I am convinced that their
stubbornness and unshakeable obstinacy ought not to go
unpunished...
They also declare that the sum total of their guilt or error
amounted to no more than this: they had met regularly
before dawn on a fixed day to chant verses alternately
amoungst themselves in honour of Jesus Christ as if to a
God...".

These are the most important documents relating to Jesus Christ and the spread of Christianity and the persecution the early believers suffered, outside of the Bible itself. These were all written by these credible, well respected, non Christian, historians.

How on earth can you say that these do not relate to Jesus Christ?
Get a grip man.

 

[wackymack]

Hah.
Firstly, you have proved shit mate, and don't say I 'cannot' before I have a chance to reply. Wishful thinking on your behalf I believe.
Throughout this thread all you do is attempt to discredit Christianity and who Christ is with your bullshit responses based on 'your distorted head knowledge'.

Here's some interesting passages from these historical documents relating to Jesus Christ.

Tactius - " Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a
class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.
Christus, from who the name had it's origin, suffered the extreme
penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our
procurators, Pontius Pilatus".

Josephus - "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought
to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and
was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over
many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. When Pilate,
upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing among
us, had condemned him to be sacrificed, those who has in the first
place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the
third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of
God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things
about him"

Pliny the Younger - "I have asked them if they are Christians, and if they admit
it, I repeat the question a second and third time, with a
warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist. i
order them to be led away for execution; for, whatever the
nature of their admission, I am convinced that their
stubbornness and unshakeable obstinacy ought not to go
unpunished...
They also declare that the sum total of their guilt or error
amounted to no more than this: they had met regularly
before dawn on a fixed day to chant verses alternately
amoungst themselves in honour of Jesus Christ as if to a
God...".

These are the most important documents relating to Jesus Christ and the spread of Christianity and the persecution the early believers suffered, outside of the Bible itself. These were all written by these credible, well respected, non Christian, historians.

How on earth can you say that these do not relate to Jesus Christ?
Get a grip man.

Why are you still shoving your interpretations down JOEBANNAS throat? He/She does not like your interpretations of the bible,so why not unsubscribe from this thread and take your propoganda else where. This is not your thread so why not leave and don't come back. It seems as though you are not welcomed so quit jacking JOEBANNAS thread and, let other people share their insite on WHAT IS CHRIST?

 

[Mammath]

Why are you still shoving your interpretations down JOEBANNAS throat? He/She does not like your interpretations of the bible,so why not unsubscribe from this thread and take your propoganda else where. This is not your thread so why not leave and don't come back. It seems as though you are not welcomed so quit jacking JOEBANNAS thread and, let other people share their insite on WHAT IS CHRIST?

Because I was invited. Remember the very first post?

Here's a reminder for you:

I would like to hear from the christians on riu.

What is Christ?

Also, it's not a jacking if your staying on topic which I most certainly am.
I am well within my rights as a follower of Jesus Christ to proclaim his authenticity and identity when someone has asked the question.

Propaganda? - information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

Who's guilty of that I wonder?

I don't sprout my mouth off without supplying factual documented support for every thing I say, that's not propaganda, that's the damn truth.
Too many people think that to become a Christian means kissing your brains goodbye, so the information I supply in this thread reveals that when you do the research, and look at the overwhelming documented evidence, the question of "What is Christ?" is a no-brainer.

To me it looks like the truth is getting under your skin, good. If your struggling to cope with who Christ is, then stiff shit for you. Jesus is the rock of offence, so if you feel offended by the truth about Christ that's not my problem, it's yours, and you need to go away and deal with it.

I have no problem with others supplying there input but the original question states; "I want to hear from Christians".
So really it's 'you' who are sticking your nose in uninvited Wacky. Capiche?

I'll leave this thread when I'm good and ready until then, listen and learn about, What is Christ from a Christian perspective.

Now can we get back on topic, I'm really interested in Joe's feedback from my last post concerning the credibility of these historical documents relating to Christ Jesus.

 

[JoeBananas]

Now can we get back on topic, I'm really interested in Joe's feedback from my last post concerning the credibility of these historical documents relating to Christ Jesus.

Christian scholars will point to passages that occur in the writings of Tacitus, Pliny and Josephus to prove that Jesus existed. This requires a reader to make a conclusion that is not supported in the case of Tacitus or Pliny. The passage in the writings Josephus may indicate that he existed Josephus, unlike Pliny or Tacitus, at least lived during a time when he could have in theory have met early Christians who knew Jesus.
Tacitus and Pliny: Born too Late

The writings of Tacitus and Pliny do not prove the existence of Jesus as these authors were born late in the first century of the current era.. In the case of the Roman historian, the passage in question comes from his annals. It is no secret that after the fire that consumed Rome in 64 A.D. the emperor Nero scapegoated Christians because he had to blame the fire on someone. Tacitus, who is never objective when he mentions Nero, probably had to balance this with the dislike of the Christians typical of the Roman pagans of his day against his dislike of Nero. Although there is no evidence that Tacitus hated the early Christians, perhaps his hatred for the former emperor was greater. He does mention that the Christians were likely not the cause of the fire but merely a convenient and unpopular target to distract blame away.
The Annals do not prove that Jesus Christ existed but merely that Christians existed in the First Century A.D., which no scholar has ever disputed. Tacitus lived too far away from the events that supposedly took place in Galilee almost a hundred years before his birth to know about them first hand.
The next piece of evidence of Jesus's existence is the letters of Pliny the Younger. In a letter to the Emperor Trajan while serving as the governor of Pontus and Bithynia from 111 to 113 of the current era, Pliny asks the emperor how to handle people caught in a witch hunt and accused of the crime of being Christian.
Trajan's response shows a remarkable and measured restraint as well as indicating leniency for those who repented of the crime of Christianity, but the Emperor suggested the appropriate punishment for those still guilty of being Christians.Pliny's letter fails to prove the existence of Jesus. First, the dates 112 to 113 do not coincide with the date of Jesus's execution which took place in roughly 30 A.D. Secondly, Pliny himself was born long after the death of Jesus and would not have personal knowledge.
Josesphus or was that Eusebius?

The passage in Josephus used to prove the existence of Jesus is a bit harder to pin down because Josephus lived in the right time, lived in the right area and perhaps most importantly, was Jewish. The passage often quoted as proof of the existence of Christ is believed to have been inserted by a Roman Catholic bishop, Eusebius, in the fourth century A.D. Eusebius was a historian in his own right, but the bishop was more concerned with proving the legitimacy of the early Roman Catholic church than he was in historical accuracy. When the passage believed to be inserted by Eusebius on Jesus is removed, the text that occurs in Josehpus's The Jewish War flows in context..
Little proof exists outside of the new testament that a historical Jesus existed. The Existence of the Gospels themselves argues powerfully enough for the existence of Jesus Christ.
Sources:
Annals. Tacitus.
"Letters of Pliny the Younger." Rome: Readings in Western Civilization
The Jewish War, Josephus.
Josephus and Eusebius

 

[sorlac2005]

This whole thing of the bible, Jesus Christ, Buddha, etc. all came in a dark time where people were mislead, so philosophies of how we must live our lives were created. As early as Socrates, we have seem people, historical figures, that have had higher awareness, they taught us to live a moral life, that we must seek knowlodge and always be looking for wisdom. I personally think that the story of Jesus is much more deep than what the church teaches us. We humans are capable of so many things, just like Jesus. In other words we are Jesus, we all have jesus inside of us and can develop all of the things that jesus was capable of. Some people are born with that already activated and can heal, some can sense the dead, other can even talk to them, etc.. I practiced Tai-Chi for over 3 years, and I could feel power coming out of my hands after 3 months that i started, just imagine what a person that have practiced that for more than 20 years is capable of.
Now, even in the bible i think it says that we are all sons of God, not only Jesus, we all are, and jesus is an example of what we humans are capable of doing. Be a myth or a Legend, Jesus just like Socrates were people out of their time, imagine if every single person of the world were as moral as them, the perfect government and society as many philosophers wanted to make through time can be possible, or as the christians say it, the kingdom of God can be created, a peaceful world. But it is difficult unless people become self-aware and actually start to worry about changing.

 

[We Love 1]

Christ is the Savior of the World.

Christ is the anointed One.

Christ is the Prince of Peace.

Christ brings Truth to His generation. Age to Age.

Christ is Gods promise to bring freedom to an enslaved World.

Christ is Me.

~PEACE~

 

[Mammath]

[QUOTE=JoeBananas;2220429]Christian scholars will point to passages that occur in the writings of Tacitus, Pliny and Josephus to prove that Jesus existed. This requires a reader to make a conclusion that is not supported in the case of Tacitus or Pliny. The passage in the writings Josephus may indicate that he existed Josephus, unlike Pliny or Tacitus, at least lived during a time when he could have in theory have met early Christians who knew Jesus.
Tacitus and Pliny: Born too Late

The writings of Tacitus and Pliny do not prove the existence of Jesus as these authors were born late in the first century of the current era.. In the case of the Roman historian, the passage in question comes from his annals. It is no secret that after the fire that consumed Rome in 64 A.D. the emperor Nero scapegoated Christians because he had to blame the fire on someone. Tacitus, who is never objective when he mentions Nero, probably had to balance this with the dislike of the Christians typical of the Roman pagans of his day against his dislike of Nero. Although there is no evidence that Tacitus hated the early Christians, perhaps his hatred for the former emperor was greater. He does mention that the Christians were likely not the cause of the fire but merely a convenient and unpopular target to distract blame away.
The Annals do not prove that Jesus Christ existed but merely that Christians existed in the First Century A.D., which no scholar has ever disputed. Tacitus lived too far away from the events that supposedly took place in Galilee almost a hundred years before his birth to know about them first hand.
The next piece of evidence of Jesus's existence is the letters of Pliny the Younger. In a letter to the Emperor Trajan while serving as the governor of Pontus and Bithynia from 111 to 113 of the current era, Pliny asks the emperor how to handle people caught in a witch hunt and accused of the crime of being Christian.
Trajan's response shows a remarkable and measured restraint as well as indicating leniency for those who repented of the crime of Christianity, but the Emperor suggested the appropriate punishment for those still guilty of being Christians.Pliny's letter fails to prove the existence of Jesus. First, the dates 112 to 113 do not coincide with the date of Jesus's execution which took place in roughly 30 A.D. Secondly, Pliny himself was born long after the death of Jesus and would not have personal knowledge.
Josesphus or was that Eusebius?

The passage in Josephus used to prove the existence of Jesus is a bit harder to pin down because Josephus lived in the right time, lived in the right area and perhaps most importantly, was Jewish. The passage often quoted as proof of the existence of Christ is believed to have been inserted by a Roman Catholic bishop, Eusebius, in the fourth century A.D. Eusebius was a historian in his own right, but the bishop was more concerned with proving the legitimacy of the early Roman Catholic church than he was in historical accuracy. When the passage believed to be inserted by Eusebius on Jesus is removed, the text that occurs in Josehpus's The Jewish War flows in context..
Little proof exists outside of the new testament that a historical Jesus existed. The Existence of the Gospels themselves argues powerfully enough for the existence of Jesus Christ.
Sources:
Annals. Tacitus.
"Letters of Pliny the Younger." Rome: Readings in Western Civilization
The Jewish War, Josephus.
Josephus and Eusebius
[/QUOTE]


Thanks for your feedback Joe I appreciate it.
Although all you did was copy and paste a page from the web I will respond to this as it does address some issues that I would like to clear up. Here's the link to the Shawn Landis article for those interested Link >>>

Just because Pliny and Tactius did not live during the time of Jesus Christ does not discredit there writing about Jesus what so ever.
Other than the fact that we have not yet put under scrutiny the many writings that were from Jesus's generation, eg. Pauls letters from the New Testament, we will first address the authenticity of these non-bible confirmations of Christ's existence.
Even though the writings of these 2 historians have their origins 70 - 80 years after the death of Jesus we have better historical documentation for Jesus than for the founder of any other ancient religion.
For example, although the Gathas of Zoroaster, about 1000 B.C. are believed to be authentic, most of the Zoroastrian scriptures were not put into writing until after the third century A.D. The most popular Parsi biography of Zoroaster was written on A.D. 1278.
The scriptures of Buddha, who lived in the sixth century B.C., were not put into writing until after the Christian era, and the first biography of Buddha was written in the first century A.D.
Although we have the sayings of Mohammad, who lived A.D. 570 to 632, in the
Qu'ran, his biography was not written until 767, more than a full century after his death.
The situation surrounding the life and existence of Jesus, outside the bible, is still quite unique.
So the fact that Pliny and Tactius did not know Jesus personally does not discredit their writings concerning his history. In fact Pliny's father, Pliny the Elder, the famous encyclopedist would have been around in Jesus's day and may have passed on the history of Jesus to his son.

Moving onto the interpolations believed to have corrupted the writings of Josephus, who was around in Jesus's day.
It is quite well known that this 'may have' taken place and there is some controversy surrounding it. In saying that, the passage in question is as a whole very authentic, although there may be some interpolations, ( early Christian copyists inserted some phrases that the Jewish writer, Josephus, would not have written).
The bottom line is that the passage was still about Jesus, and if we erase what is believed to be the 3 added phrases, it would still be about Jesus.
Here's a translation of the same passage from an Arabic version of Josephus's antiquities which is believed to be uncorrupted.
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders".

Without relating to the bible as reference to Jesus's existence we would still have a considerable amount of historical evidence from these other sources to give us a good outline for the life of Jesus.
We would know that:
1. Jesus was a Jewish teacher.
2. Many people believed that he performed healings and exorcisms.
3. Some people believed he was the Messiah.
4. He was rejected by the Jewish leaders.
5. He was crucified under Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius.
6. Despite his shameful death, his followers, who believed he was still alive, spread beyond Palistine so that there were mulitudes of them in Rome by A.D. 64.
7. All kinds of people from the cities and countryside, men and women, slave and free, worshipped him as God.

How can anyone think that Christianity was birthed from someone who never existed?