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By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now!. Posted July 20, 2007.
The Los Angeles Times is reporting nearly half of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops in Iraq have come from Saudi Arabia one of Washington's closest allies in the Middle East. U.S. officials have so far refused to publicly criticize Saudi Arabia's role in Iraq, focusing instead on Iran. Democracy Now! spoke with an L.A. Times correspondent in Iraq, Ned Parker, and Toby Jones, a former Persian Gulf analyst with the International Crisis Group and history professor at Rutgers University
Amy Goodman: We go now to Iraq to speak with Ned Parker, staff reporter for the Los Angeles Times. He joins us from Baghdad. Ned Parker recently wrote a widely read article on how Sunni militants from Saudi Arabia make up half the foreign fighters in Iraq. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Ned Parker. We saw over and over again on the Senate floor, as ultimately the attempt to pass the resolution that would begin withdrawal of troops from Iraq was defeated, we saw Iran raised and the idea that in Iraq US soldiers were fighting off Iranian insurgents, and that was part of what the battle in Iraq was all about, taking on Iran. You found that, in fact, there are more Saudi than Iranian foreign fighters in Iraq. How do you know this?
Ned Parker: Well, I mean, the Iranian issue is complicated, to say the least. And I don't -- it's from America's, US military's own numbers about foreign fighters in Iraq, that there are more Saudis fighting in Iraq than Iranians. I mean, that said, the Iranian element, there's no doubt that the Iranians are involved in Iraq, and if they are backing Shia militias, the military believes that this is with full government backing.
The Saudi issue is more complicated, because it's not really clear what the Saudi government is really doing. Are they actively involved in sending these Saudi fighters to Iraq, or are they just sort of letting it happen as a way to pressure the Shia government there? So, and then, Saudis are the United States's allies [inaudible], so there's all that at play.
Democracy Now! cohost Juan Gonzalez: And your report also gives some indication of the total number of foreign fighters, which I found -- or at least the ones that are in custody, which I found to be somewhat low, in terms of what we might imagine. Could you talk about the actual numbers?
Parker: Right. I mean, their numbers -- I mean, it's still -- I think the Americans would even say that their numbers aren't precise. It's based upon detainees arrested over the years, detainees currently in prison. Right now there's, I think, 130 foreign fighters in US custody. Of those, 45% are Saudi. The United States guesses that there are between sixty and eighty foreign fighters who cross into Iraq each month through Syria, so almost half of those, according to the United States, have been Saudi. So it is actually -- it's a fairly low number in the scheme of things, and the United States, even in releasing these numbers, were saying that the Saudi foot soldiers are being used as suicide bombers, for the most part, or fighters on the ground, people with, you know, a very quick shelf life, that are probably going to die. But they're quite open about the fact that the majority of al-Qaeda in Iraq, even if it has a foreign leadership, is Iraqi, and, I mean, that shouldn't be lost sight of. The vast majority of al-Qaeda in Iraq is Iraqi.
Gonzalez: And what did the military brass in Iraq tell you about their efforts to try to get Saudi Arabia to somehow or other control the Jihadist fighters that are leaving their country?
Parker: Well, we -- the officers I've spoken with, they believe that the Saudi government should be doing a tougher job on its border with Jordan, because that's the flow of Saudi fighters to Iraq, often by bus or plane, be it Jordan to Syria or by plane perhaps direct to Syria. So their objection is that there's no sense of real vigorous screening of the males crossing the border, meaning that if they fit a certain profile, there's no questioning of them. They just let people go. It's not suspicious if they have very little money, you know, narrow possessions, think they're going for a very short trip. There's no effort to stop them, according to the US military officers I've spoken with -- or the Iraqis, for that matter.
Goodman: And what are the military brass saying about the fact that they are Saudi? I mean, I think most people in this country, they now believe there are a number of Iranians fighting in Iraq, not Saudis, in the same way that probably many people in the United States don't realize the vast majority of those who flew the planes on 9/11 were Saudi and not Iraqi.
Parker: [There is] frustration [that] more needs to be done and a sense of, I think, frustration, that the issue isn't dealt with publicly, that because Saudi Arabia is an ally of the United States, a decision has been made for diplomatic reasons to not publicize this number, but the numbers are right. And even after the article came out, the State Department officials, you know, grudgingly admitted that it was correct here in Iraq.
Gonzalez: And Ned, how is it for you to report in Iraq right now?
Parker: How easy is it? It is a very difficult place to report right now. We still do get out and go around Baghdad, whether on embeds or just going solo on our own. But, you know, everything has to be done very carefully, because it definitely is a dangerous place to work for everyone.
Gonzalez: And could you tell us also -- you interviewed some Saudi officials -- their reaction to the criticisms that they're getting about not controlling the people leaving their country? What was the Saudi official reaction to your story?
Parker: Well, you know, I think there's a wide variety of opinions among Saudi officials. When I was writing the article, I spoke with a spokesman for the Saudi Interior Ministry, and he was quite blunt about the fact that it is a huge problem that Saudis are going to fight in Iraq, and -- but, you know, I asked about their ability to do more to stop the flow, the spokesman said, you know, "It's not our fault. We're not going to screen our citizens who are traveling abroad. The Iraqi government doesn't talk to us." The other hand, the Iraqis will say that "We constantly try to engage the Saudis about this issue, and there has not been any strong interest by the Saudis to help."
Now, depending on how you want to view the situation, it very much plays into probably this antagonism between Saudi Arabia, which is a very Sunni country, fundamentalist, conservative, that sees Iraq with a Shiite-led majority as a potential threat as a possible, you know, proxy for Iran. So all of that comes into play. Saudi officials have been critical of al-Qaeda. They had certainly fought their own war with al-Qaeda inside Saudi Arabia. But then, if you're a fighter going to Iraq, it's just another, you know, side to it, another dimension to the problem.
Goodman: Ned Parker, last week in President Bush's news conference, he didn't mention Saudi foreign fighters, but he blamed Syria for not stopping suicide bombers from going into Iraq through Syria.
Parker: Mm-hmm. Sure. And, I mean, there's probably -- media probably has a legitimate, I suppose, grievance that I'm saying that. I mean, there are Syrian intel officers on the borders, and there isn't real, from what I'm told, effort to stop the flow. But could he say the same thing about Saudi Arabia? It sounds like he could. Certainly US military officials believe so, and Iraqi officials. And the proof is in the pudding. I mean, the most foreign fighters in Iraq are Saudi, but Saudi Arabia is the United States's ally. In Saudi Arabia it seems that certainly the Saudis are involved in trying break whatever quote/unquote Islamist extremist al-Qaeda cells. So how do you deal with an ally who might be trying it both ways? It's a tough one. And so, Syria is considered an enemy by the United States. Saudi Arabia is not, so it does not get singled out in the same way.
Goodman: What effect has the surge had, the increased number of US soldiers in Iraq?
Parker: I mean, I think it has had an effect. I mean, it's -- the problem is that the surge is taking place within a politically charged debate in the United States between Democrats and Republicans, and perhaps a lot of the feelings about Iraq reflect disillusionment or disenchantment with the President's leadership. But the surge itself, I mean, it definitely has in some areas stabilized the situation. It doesn't mean that things are safe. It just means that the killing has gone down a bit. Now, if you care about Iraqis, and you live with Iraqis, and you witness what they're going through every day, that's a good thing. Certainly, though, people are still dying. I think the surge will take time, and probably the expectations with a timeline in the United States for how long it should take are unrealistic. It will probably take much longer.
Nearly half of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops in Iraq have come from Saudi Arabia -- an inconvenient truth for the White House papered over with the lie that Iran is the chief instigator.
The Los Angeles Times is reporting nearly half of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops in Iraq have come from Saudi Arabia one of Washington's closest allies in the Middle East. U.S. officials have so far refused to publicly criticize Saudi Arabia's role in Iraq, focusing instead on Iran. Democracy Now! spoke with an L.A. Times correspondent in Iraq, Ned Parker, and Toby Jones, a former Persian Gulf analyst with the International Crisis Group and history professor at Rutgers University
Amy Goodman: We go now to Iraq to speak with Ned Parker, staff reporter for the Los Angeles Times. He joins us from Baghdad. Ned Parker recently wrote a widely read article on how Sunni militants from Saudi Arabia make up half the foreign fighters in Iraq. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Ned Parker. We saw over and over again on the Senate floor, as ultimately the attempt to pass the resolution that would begin withdrawal of troops from Iraq was defeated, we saw Iran raised and the idea that in Iraq US soldiers were fighting off Iranian insurgents, and that was part of what the battle in Iraq was all about, taking on Iran. You found that, in fact, there are more Saudi than Iranian foreign fighters in Iraq. How do you know this?
Ned Parker: Well, I mean, the Iranian issue is complicated, to say the least. And I don't -- it's from America's, US military's own numbers about foreign fighters in Iraq, that there are more Saudis fighting in Iraq than Iranians. I mean, that said, the Iranian element, there's no doubt that the Iranians are involved in Iraq, and if they are backing Shia militias, the military believes that this is with full government backing.
The Saudi issue is more complicated, because it's not really clear what the Saudi government is really doing. Are they actively involved in sending these Saudi fighters to Iraq, or are they just sort of letting it happen as a way to pressure the Shia government there? So, and then, Saudis are the United States's allies [inaudible], so there's all that at play.
Democracy Now! cohost Juan Gonzalez: And your report also gives some indication of the total number of foreign fighters, which I found -- or at least the ones that are in custody, which I found to be somewhat low, in terms of what we might imagine. Could you talk about the actual numbers?
Parker: Right. I mean, their numbers -- I mean, it's still -- I think the Americans would even say that their numbers aren't precise. It's based upon detainees arrested over the years, detainees currently in prison. Right now there's, I think, 130 foreign fighters in US custody. Of those, 45% are Saudi. The United States guesses that there are between sixty and eighty foreign fighters who cross into Iraq each month through Syria, so almost half of those, according to the United States, have been Saudi. So it is actually -- it's a fairly low number in the scheme of things, and the United States, even in releasing these numbers, were saying that the Saudi foot soldiers are being used as suicide bombers, for the most part, or fighters on the ground, people with, you know, a very quick shelf life, that are probably going to die. But they're quite open about the fact that the majority of al-Qaeda in Iraq, even if it has a foreign leadership, is Iraqi, and, I mean, that shouldn't be lost sight of. The vast majority of al-Qaeda in Iraq is Iraqi.
Gonzalez: And what did the military brass in Iraq tell you about their efforts to try to get Saudi Arabia to somehow or other control the Jihadist fighters that are leaving their country?
Parker: Well, we -- the officers I've spoken with, they believe that the Saudi government should be doing a tougher job on its border with Jordan, because that's the flow of Saudi fighters to Iraq, often by bus or plane, be it Jordan to Syria or by plane perhaps direct to Syria. So their objection is that there's no sense of real vigorous screening of the males crossing the border, meaning that if they fit a certain profile, there's no questioning of them. They just let people go. It's not suspicious if they have very little money, you know, narrow possessions, think they're going for a very short trip. There's no effort to stop them, according to the US military officers I've spoken with -- or the Iraqis, for that matter.
Goodman: And what are the military brass saying about the fact that they are Saudi? I mean, I think most people in this country, they now believe there are a number of Iranians fighting in Iraq, not Saudis, in the same way that probably many people in the United States don't realize the vast majority of those who flew the planes on 9/11 were Saudi and not Iraqi.
Parker: [There is] frustration [that] more needs to be done and a sense of, I think, frustration, that the issue isn't dealt with publicly, that because Saudi Arabia is an ally of the United States, a decision has been made for diplomatic reasons to not publicize this number, but the numbers are right. And even after the article came out, the State Department officials, you know, grudgingly admitted that it was correct here in Iraq.
Gonzalez: And Ned, how is it for you to report in Iraq right now?
Parker: How easy is it? It is a very difficult place to report right now. We still do get out and go around Baghdad, whether on embeds or just going solo on our own. But, you know, everything has to be done very carefully, because it definitely is a dangerous place to work for everyone.
Gonzalez: And could you tell us also -- you interviewed some Saudi officials -- their reaction to the criticisms that they're getting about not controlling the people leaving their country? What was the Saudi official reaction to your story?
Parker: Well, you know, I think there's a wide variety of opinions among Saudi officials. When I was writing the article, I spoke with a spokesman for the Saudi Interior Ministry, and he was quite blunt about the fact that it is a huge problem that Saudis are going to fight in Iraq, and -- but, you know, I asked about their ability to do more to stop the flow, the spokesman said, you know, "It's not our fault. We're not going to screen our citizens who are traveling abroad. The Iraqi government doesn't talk to us." The other hand, the Iraqis will say that "We constantly try to engage the Saudis about this issue, and there has not been any strong interest by the Saudis to help."
Now, depending on how you want to view the situation, it very much plays into probably this antagonism between Saudi Arabia, which is a very Sunni country, fundamentalist, conservative, that sees Iraq with a Shiite-led majority as a potential threat as a possible, you know, proxy for Iran. So all of that comes into play. Saudi officials have been critical of al-Qaeda. They had certainly fought their own war with al-Qaeda inside Saudi Arabia. But then, if you're a fighter going to Iraq, it's just another, you know, side to it, another dimension to the problem.
Goodman: Ned Parker, last week in President Bush's news conference, he didn't mention Saudi foreign fighters, but he blamed Syria for not stopping suicide bombers from going into Iraq through Syria.
Parker: Mm-hmm. Sure. And, I mean, there's probably -- media probably has a legitimate, I suppose, grievance that I'm saying that. I mean, there are Syrian intel officers on the borders, and there isn't real, from what I'm told, effort to stop the flow. But could he say the same thing about Saudi Arabia? It sounds like he could. Certainly US military officials believe so, and Iraqi officials. And the proof is in the pudding. I mean, the most foreign fighters in Iraq are Saudi, but Saudi Arabia is the United States's ally. In Saudi Arabia it seems that certainly the Saudis are involved in trying break whatever quote/unquote Islamist extremist al-Qaeda cells. So how do you deal with an ally who might be trying it both ways? It's a tough one. And so, Syria is considered an enemy by the United States. Saudi Arabia is not, so it does not get singled out in the same way.
Goodman: What effect has the surge had, the increased number of US soldiers in Iraq?
Parker: I mean, I think it has had an effect. I mean, it's -- the problem is that the surge is taking place within a politically charged debate in the United States between Democrats and Republicans, and perhaps a lot of the feelings about Iraq reflect disillusionment or disenchantment with the President's leadership. But the surge itself, I mean, it definitely has in some areas stabilized the situation. It doesn't mean that things are safe. It just means that the killing has gone down a bit. Now, if you care about Iraqis, and you live with Iraqis, and you witness what they're going through every day, that's a good thing. Certainly, though, people are still dying. I think the surge will take time, and probably the expectations with a timeline in the United States for how long it should take are unrealistic. It will probably take much longer.
