<Good Pics> Can any diagnose these plants?

Summary
I was given some seeds from a friend in Quebec and I wanted to grow them this winter, cut some clones, sex them, and plant baby girls outside in the spring.
About one month after sprouting the older leaves started yellowing. I flushed then first thing, and gave them only water for a week, it only got worse and spread to more plants.
It got so bad it looked that all the plants would die for certain, so I cut all the growth shoots from all the plants, and got them started on rooting. The remains of the plants went into 12/12 light, hoping I might catch a glimpse of their sexes before they died.
The baby cuttings, although showing signs of rooting, have followed their parents in this yellowing and dyeing of the leaves. They have only gotten water (2 weeks) until a few days ago when they received nutrition from a foliar spray of Foxfarm Growbig at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon (rec. dose).
All advice and opinions are welcome, but those with supporting information will be especially appreciated.
What Strain is it?
Guerilla's Gusto, TNR, Shaman and Durban Poison.

Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages?

Hybrid, mostly Sativa (Outdoor Strains)

How Many Plants?

Originally ten, but when those plants died of the same thing I cut all the shoots to try to clone, now about 50 cuttings only left.

Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage?

Vegetative.

If in Vegetative Stage... How Long?

The seed sprouted on the parents about 2 months ago in December. The cuttings where taken from them 2 weeks ago.

Indoor or Outdoor?

Growing Indoor, outdoor strains.

Soil or Hydro?

Soil. I think the initial mixture was poor. It was topsoil from a local nursery, cut with perlite. During waterings, the water moved through the container and out the bottom, and soil looked "moist / muddy". I am switching to 1 part Schultz Premium Potting Soil plus and 2 parts Schultz Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss.

If Soil... What Size Pot?

7 gallon plastic garbage can (the kitchen type) with holes drilled in the bottom for irrigation.

Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many?

One duel bulb ballast with (2) t12-40 Watt bulbs; 4 foot length (I had 1 of these lights per 5 parent plants during their initial veg. stage).

Is it Air Cooled?

No.

Temperature of Room/Cabinet?

68° Fahrenheit (20° Celsius) to 78° Fahrenheit (25.5° Celsius). Mean temperature of house.

PH of Medium or Reservoir?

Haven't got the equipment to test PH yet.

Any Pests?

Yes. I noticed small black flies hanging around, but not the leaves. I did notice the bugs crawling in the soil. I treated them with Garden Dust and Schultz insect spray (as directed).
How Often are you Watering?

4 out of 7 days a week.

Type and Strength of Fertilizers used?

Initially I used Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed, I used a 1/2 capful to a gallon of water, and feed them twice a week with this (recommended is 1 capful once a week). I gave them straight (unchecked) tap water waterings in between feedings.
When the very first leaves began to yellow, more than a month ago, I thought perhaps they were not getting the right nutrients, so I changed to Foxfarm Growbig. I fed them at 3/4 teaspoon per gallon, 3x a week, with water in between.

Size or Square Footage of Room?

The grow area is about 10 square feet, the room it is in is about 20x20 feet. 5 out of ten for ventilation.









 

Sheepdog420

Well-Known Member
I can tell you 90% that it's low PH. I just ran into this problem.

You need to find some sort of a test kit! I got mine at a local hydro shop for like $12.

I found that my soil mix was pushing the runoff water PH down to like 4.0. Having a PH below 5.5 or so causes Nitrogen (among other things) to get locked out causing the yellow leaves.

The way that i resolved my problem was by adding 2 heaping tablespoons of dolomite lime per gallon of soil and repotting them. This balanced the PH of the soil, and by using distilled water from the grocery store totally fixed my problem. They tripled in size in just a week after that.

I was also told that if you flushed the pots with 3x the volume of the pot with properly PH'd tap water, that it'd raise the PH also.

I bet they can be saved, from what I read, that growth will always stay yellow.

I'm fairly new to this, so someone else may have another opinion. I think being able to check the soil PH is your next step either way. Finding some good quality soil with no added nutrients will go a long way too.

Good Luck!!

Sheepdog
 

Sheepdog420

Well-Known Member
I read your post a little closer & thought I'd add a few more thoughts.

How deep is the trash can you're using? It's possible that the bottom is never drying out and causing you potential root problems. I use 10" pots and probably only water every 6 or 7 days. The bugs may be liking the wet soil too.

At what point did you first add the fertilizer? Depending on your soil, you shouldn't add anything for the first 2-3 weeks. I don't know about the nutrients you're using, but they typically say on here to start with quarter strength nutes every other week. If they take it well, you can bump it up.

So, here's where I'd start...

Find a way to check the PH, ebay has cheap supplies if nothing else
try your new soil mix, it sounds a lot better.
Make sure you use pots that are able to dry out fully
don't overdo the nutes.

Good luck again.
 
I can tell you 90% that it's low PH. I just ran into this problem.

You need to find some sort of a test kit! I got mine at a local hydro shop for like $12.

I found that my soil mix was pushing the runoff water PH down to like 4.0. Having a PH below 5.5 or so causes Nitrogen (among other things) to get locked out causing the yellow leaves.

The way that i resolved my problem was by adding 2 heaping tablespoons of dolomite lime per gallon of soil and repotting them. This balanced the PH of the soil, and by using distilled water from the grocery store totally fixed my problem. They tripled in size in just a week after that.

I was also told that if you flushed the pots with 3x the volume of the pot with properly PH'd tap water, that it'd raise the PH also.

I bet they can be saved, from what I read, that growth will always stay yellow.

I'm fairly new to this, so someone else may have another opinion. I think being able to check the soil PH is your next step either way. Finding some good quality soil with no added nutrients will go a long way too.

Good Luck!!

Sheepdog

I bought a pool PH tester kit, the kind you match colors, and if it is accurite I believe the PH to be at about 7.6 , it was much closer in color to 7.6 then 7.4 or 7.8, much.

Bring this down?





I read your post a little closer & thought I'd add a few more thoughts.

How deep is the trash can you're using? It's possible that the bottom is never drying out and causing you potential root problems. I use 10" pots and probably only water every 6 or 7 days. The bugs may be liking the wet soil too.

At what point did you first add the fertilizer? Depending on your soil, you shouldn't add anything for the first 2-3 weeks. I don't know about the nutrients you're using, but they typically say on here to start with quarter strength nutes every other week. If they take it well, you can bump it up.

So, here's where I'd start...

Find a way to check the PH, ebay has cheap supplies if nothing else
try your new soil mix, it sounds a lot better.
Make sure you use pots that are able to dry out fully
don't overdo the nutes.

Good luck again.

The trash can is deep. I think what you have mentioned could have some truth and i am gunna watch that when I use them again.

But...

...would plants in rockwool alone be effected by the depth of those pails? They are from plants that were once in there but that shouldnt matter now, should it?

The bag seeds (the ones in soil in the pic) have only and always been in the container u see there. That soil is thick as hell tho.
 

Mammath

Well-Known Member
I bought a pool PH tester kit, the kind you match colors, and if it is accurite I believe the PH to be at about 7.6 , it was much closer in color to 7.6 then 7.4 or 7.8, much.

Bring this down?


Absolutely.
Lime will dissolve most things. Neutral is 7.0. You are alkaline.
Aim for PH of 5.5 - 6.5
Different strains will require variants of this window, but keep it between those figures. MJ like it slightly acid.
I'm a big fan of correct PH.
It's the absolute starting point. Especially when just flushing.
You can do just as much damage flushing with incorrect PH water as over nuting.
PH that is too low or too high will lock out certain nutrients.
Spend some cash if possible on a digital meter. So you can keep it under control.
This is a starting point.
 

green livin

Well-Known Member
to me it looks like nute burn but it could also be too much water and id take off that plastic thing
 

Mammath

Well-Known Member
to me it looks like nute burn but it could also be too much water and id take off that plastic thing
Yeah, Im with ya 'Green'. It looks like nut burn and I reckon it's from folia spraying mainly.
PH is not good but...
We all love to have something to do when we enter our grow areas but we all need to stop being Cheech and Chong and spraying that shit.
No offence Twisting T.
it just doesn't help sometimes. Especially if there's N based nuts in it.
There's a lot of work to do here Twisty!
 

natmoon

Well-Known Member
Domeing them for to long also inhibits root growth and can make the young leaves to damp and warm:leaf:
 
to me it looks like nute burn but it could also be too much water and id take off that plastic thing
The "plastic thing" is a dome designed to keep moisture in. Question is, how do I know when its time to take it off. I did to another set of clones cut at thesame time as these a few days ago, maybe 5 days ago, and they died in hours.

It's also NOT nute burn. The cuttings have never gotten any nutes except whats in rockwool and the cloning gel/powder.

Yeah, Im with ya 'Green'. It looks like nut burn and I reckon it's from folia spraying mainly.
PH is not good but...
We all love to have something to do when we enter our grow areas but we all need to stop being Cheech and Chong and spraying that shit.
No offence Twisting T.
it just doesn't help sometimes. Especially if there's N based nuts in it.
There's a lot of work to do here Twisty!
What work is that? I know something but just dont know what.

jesus christ man how long did it take u to make that post
Under an hour.

Thank you, I will check this out ASAP


Domeing them for to long also inhibits root growth and can make the young leaves to damp and warm:leaf:
When should I take it off, how do I know, roots aren't in yet.
 

natmoon

Well-Known Member
The "plastic thing" is a dome designed to keep moisture in. Question is, how do I know when its time to take it off. I did to another set of clones cut at thesame time as these a few days ago, maybe 5 days ago, and they died in hours.

It's also NOT nute burn. The cuttings have never gotten any nutes except whats in rockwool and the cloning gel/powder.



What work is that? I know something but just dont know what.



Under an hour.



Thank you, I will check this out ASAP




When should I take it off, how do I know, roots aren't in yet.
If the leaves are absorbing to much moisture they wont bother with roots.
Many clones and seedlings are killed or maimed in this way imo.
I usually,from seed,only leave the dome on for the first week after you see the first 2 real leaves appear.
I also keep the medium very wet for the first 2 weeks.
I rarely use clones but i know that it is the same for clones,if the enviro is to wet they wont root well.
Also noticed that you have all the clones in the same slab of rockwool,maybe its time to separate them into their own units:leaf:
 

Mammath

Well-Known Member
The cuttings have never gotten any nutes except whats in rockwool and the cloning gel/powder.

What work is that? I know something but just dont know what.
The baby cuttings, although showing signs of rooting, have followed their parents in this yellowing and dyeing of the leaves. They have only gotten water (2 weeks) until a few days ago when they received nutrition from a foliar spray of Foxfarm Growbig at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon (rec. dose).
You did mention you sprayed them with nuted water, that's what i was going by when i mentioned nute burn.
As 'natmoon' said, too much spraying will inhibit root growth. When using the dome I only ever spray the inside of the actual dome to create that humid, moist environment. I never directly spray the clones.
Does the dome have air vents in it? I think it could definitely come off during the light cycle.
I would also have to agree that separating them is a good idea. It allows air around the wool of each plant which is a good thing. Also it helps to judge the moisture content of the wool. I use the method of lifting up the cube and feeling it's weight to know if the need to be watered or not. You may be over watering.
A heat mat is always good for clones to sit on too.
Also separate all those seedlings into individual pots otherwise the bigger they get the more stress they will suffer when you do transplant.
I'm not trying to be dick when i say you got a bit of work to do, just trying to help you out.
Work on doing these things and getting that PH together and keep us posted.
 

Sheepdog420

Well-Known Member
The only thing I can add is to make sure you're checking not only the water PH, but the soil runoff PH. I haven't started cloning yet, so I'm of no help there.
 
Top