PPMS question

[willywooper]

When using fertilizers can you mix different ones if your PPMS are correct ? I've heard you can as long as PPMS and PH are ok. I hear things like "use 25% or 50% strength" all the time. But I think if the PPMS are all tht matter (something like 1600 veg. and 1000 flower?) then I'll get a good meter and do it this way.

Also I was thinking about using small river rocks as opposed to hydroton. They're FREE first of all. smooth. and even pretty! . Only issue might be the weight inside the net pots..... but to my way of thinking they might provide trace minerals because the river I'm getting them from will provide several types of rock (slate qurtz etc....).

Any thoughts ?

 

[Earl]

When they say 50%
they mean 50% of 1600 or 1000flower.

I run my nutes at 500, 600, and 800ppm

I do clones at 200ppm

I use RO.

I'm fanatical about keeping the pH correct,
and the temps below 68ºf

If you can get neoprene it works best
and then you don't have any media to bother your pH.

these are plugs with seed
in 2 inch net pot
with neoprene collars.

Or if you have cuts for cloning,
you don't need the plug
and you can go straight to veg.

 

[willywooper]

So will my ppms differ according to the ferts I use? and should organic ppms be different? Or is the main issue PH as long as plants are taking well to nutes ? and I've also read a post where someone said they go 2000 ppms to veg ..... ?

 

[Earl]

Some products like Pure Blend Pro can be pushed to those levels.

I would not recommend anywhere near that
with most nutes and RO

If you don't have RO
then you need to stay low.

Go ahead and use high loads.
You have lots of money and time.

If you want to grow fast
change our rez more often
and use lower nute loads.
.

 

[willywooper]

What exactly is RO ?

 

[Earl]

It is water that has the minerals removed
by the process of Reverse Osmosis(RO)

It is also called DI or De-Ionized water.

You can buy the machines on ebay for $100-$200.

You need a TDS meter and a pH meter.

Check out the threads in my signature to learn more.

 

[mindphuk]

It is water that has the minerals removed
by the process of Reverse Osmosis(RO)

It is also called DI or De-Ionized water.

Deionized water os not the same as RO. RO is produced by using a membrane and pressure to force the water through it. Deionization (DI) is where water passes over two types of resins that literally strips ions off of minerals. These resins, cations and anions, can be in seperate chambers or use a mixed bed of both. It does nothing to remove any organic BTW.
Most RO systems are setup with a pre-filter, a carbon block filter, usually a 5-15 micron pore size, and then the RO membrane. You can add DI units in series after the RO membrane to remove any additional minerals that made it through all of the other filters.
RO-DI units are very popular in the aquarium industry because the extras step of DI will remove silicates and other minerals that are utilized by nusiance algea and diatoms. Deionization is definitely overkill for hydroponics IMO. Also, with DI, you have to be careful with pH since there is absolutely no buffering capacity left.

 

[Earl]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I am loving my Di filter
as I am able to buffer the nutes better.

.

 

[mindphuk]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I am loving my Di filter
as I am able to buffer the nutes better.

.

So are you running straight DI, no RO?
DI is great for purifying water but if your tap water PPM is high, the DI resins won't last very long. Are yours color changing or do you rely solely on your TDS rising to decide when to change the resin?

Like I mentioned in the previous post, many people use DI to clean up RO water just a bit more, but that's not exactly accurate. Most people that use DI, want just the pure DI water and RO is just a means to an end. If your goal is pure DI water, putting an RO membrane in front of it will make your DI resins last a lot longer since once a resin particle traps an ion, it no longer will do anything, so the more it has to filter (higher ppm water coming from tap vs. lower ppm from the RO), the shorter life span it has. I don't know how often you change out your DI currently but if you put an RO setup in front, you will get many times more gallons from the same DI setupi than you were previously. Since the cost of the resins are pretty high compared to the cost of an RO setup, that is the most cost-efficient way to purify water.

If you don't have a problem working with volatile chemicals, you can regenerate your own DI resins. The anions are recharged with a strong base, usually NaOH and the cations with a strong acid like HCl.

If you don't want the hassle of recharging your resins using these dangerous chemicals you can buy new resin in bulk instead of replacing the expensive pre-filled resin chambers like most non-commercial DI systems are setup to do.

So, out of curiosity, what kind of DI setup do you run now?

 

[Earl]

Yes I added this canister downline from the RO machine.

I bought some of the bulk resin
from the filter guys.

Thanks for the link.

Now I need a whole new set of replacements cartridges.

I'm hoping I can get through this grow
before I have to cough up the doe.
.

 

[willywooper]

Well I've been researching it and I'm sure you can. It looks like it's really unecessary, but I'm pretty sure it helps nutrient intake. As long as you're using good nutes I think you'll be fine. But I've never done anything but gurilla grows so wtf do I kno

 

[mindphuk]

What are those 2 pre-filters doing before the RO system? You have a 4-stage RO setup, so it already has a pre-filter and I assume 2 carbon blocks. You can convert those other 2 canisters into a dual DI using these http://www.tbaquatics.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=136 refillable inserts.
So you need to replumb it so your source water goes to your 4-stage system first, exits the RO stage, and instead of going to your current DI tubes (those aren't refillable?), you will go to the dual cannisters that you currently are using as a pre-prefilter.

I bought mine from the filter guys but I didn't see a picture of them on their website but they do sell them if your resin hasn't shipped yet.

I'm sure you can easily get through this grow without having to replace the carts. Even if you PPMs begin to climb, you will still be much cleaner than the tap water you began with. Also, the DI resins work fine on their own, so even if the RO system cartridges completely failed, you wlll still have very pure water, you will just use up your resins quicker.

 

[Earl]

I am half way through my grow,
and the tds has climbed slowly up to 40

At 70 I'm done.

New filters are just the cost of doing business
along with a lot of other things.
.

 

[mindphuk]

Here's mine:

 

[Earl]

I like the clear canisters.
.

 

[willywooper]

Just out of curiosity have you ever had algae problems out of the clear canisters/tubing ? It seems like if the water is better for plants it'd also be good for little plantlike protists and such?

 

[mindphuk]

Just out of curiosity have you ever had algae problems out of the clear canisters/tubing ? It seems like if the water is better for plants it'd also be good for little plantlike protists and such?

Well, my tap water is chlorinated and pretty free of organics so algae shouldn't be a problem.

 

[willywooper]

Well all the RO and DI probably removes alot of the "additives" I'd assume.and chlorine can be gone within a few hours. I know that even synthetic fertilizers (with high nitrates) that leak into ponds and lakes can cause algal blooms I just thought it might be the same for a hydro set-up? I guess every areas water varies greatly in composition too

 

[SmokeMedprop215]

hey I have the same R/O membrane as you do Earl and I love it all but the fact that it takes along time to fill the res and wastes alot of water but I have well water filled with organics and tap ppm is like 400 it takes mine all the way to 0 I love it

 

[mindphuk]

hey I have the same R/O membrane as you do Earl and I love it all but the fact that it takes along time to fill the res and wastes alot of water but I have well water filled with organics and tap ppm is like 400 it takes mine all the way to 0 I love it

Efficiency of RO membranes is temperature dependent. Cold water will decrease efficiency. They are rated at 25°C (77°F), so a 50gpd membrane may only produce 30gal if the temp of your cold water line is only 68°F. If you can take the water supply line and coil it up inside of a 5 gallon bucket filled with water and an aquarium heater, you will increase the temp of the water going through the membrane helping to increase efficiency.
A booster pump will also help if your water pressure is low but they cost about $200.

Since you have pretty hard water, don't forget to flush your membrane at least once a month. If you don't have a flush kit installed, you can do it manually too. Just remove the restrictor from the waste line and let it run for about 10 minutes.