Foxtailing at the end of flower

[medidedicated]

Mine is 8500btu or 5000 sacc btu rating for 150 square foot in my 100 sq ft room. I can get the temps as low as I want them but idk if the sizing is why. I have about 500w almost in leds on at once in the room. The other half turns on when they turn off.

 

[Fish scale]

Mine is 8500btu or 5000 sacc btu rating for 150 square foot in my 100 sq ft room. I can get the temps as low as I want them but idk if the sizing is why. I have about 500w almost in leds on at once in the room. The other half turns on when they turn off.

Mine is 13,000 BTU but I can't get it close enough to the tent to get the temps low enough

 

[medidedicated]

Oh gotcha. That sucks but 29c if thats 84f thats a pretty good improvement anything more for a average time would scortch it a bit. I think its true when they say plants like enviorments humans like so if youre uncomforable as are the plants.

 

[medidedicated]

They do have to be pointed just right, as small as my 100sq ft room is one side can be 10F higher than other or more. Same with rh so I have two dehueys and the ac pointing at center of room. To even out its cooling effect.

Its funny cause I always knew moving cool air to hot area cools the area. So they are heat pumps that pump heat out of the room but the -20F air coming out of it also cools the room. If not more effective than where it absorbs the heat.

So I believe ya if youre saying its obstructd from being able to get to a hot spot.

 

[Fish scale]

They do have to be pointed just right, as small as my 100sq ft room is one side can be 10F higher than other or more. Same with rh so I have two dehueys and the ac pointing at center of room. To even out its cooling effect.

Its funny cause I always knew moving cool air to hot area cools the area. So they are heat pumps that pump heat out of the room but the -20F air coming out of it also cools the room. If not more effective than where it absorbs the heat.

So I believe ya if youre saying its obstructd from being able to get to a hot spot.

Foxtailing or just genetics maybe? Or is it down to it's final push at producing bud? Too much heat? or something?

 

[medidedicated]

Huh, thats a good one, idk. What is its usual flower time? If week 6 out of like 9 it very well could just be growing especially if there are whites generally throughout the buds top and bottom. I guess I dont understand foxtails that much, that one I showed also had like what looked like 3 different molds growing in it including budrot.

It just kept foxtailing until dimmed light but triggered stress hairs where it was just budding nonstop. You could tell by larf buds that it was a badly foxtailed plant. Buds overall just had that never ending bud build structure sometimes normal but not that plant.

Then I had stress hairs later on in my perpetual clone grows pretty often from gnats then aphids too. Root rot as a result. So my 8-10wk pheno was 12wks and still pushin white hairs. Like it needed 14 wks. Partly also because I lacked plant training so had many larf buds with no light so that didnt help. It didnt stop it from being 100% orange hairs in a other tent though.

Hope that helps, so in short, if its known to go 10wks give it 11 or 12 and if its still pushin out whites.. And you know you have some potential causes then consider chopping with mostly red hairs. I would tweak the setup tho and refer to notes try to figure out what went wrong. For next time. If you ran it a few times from seed.

Between seeds they can have a different harvest date because of that and even as clones, I have a 4 week window. I grew it for almost 2 yrs too. If its just the tops and they are growing that crown you saw in my example pic, thats a good sign to confidently chop. I was told those can go on indefinetly if not corrected or chopped if it just kept going.

Or else LOL if just turns into my picture which didnt intend to be such a extreme example available to find and show. Its up there with some of the most extreme ever seen. And its my plant lol.

 

[Fish scale]

Huh, thats a good one, idk. What is its usual flower time? If week 6 out of like 9 it very well could just be growing especially if there are whites generally throughout the buds top and bottom. I guess I dont understand foxtails that much, that one I showed also had like what looked like 3 different molds growing in it including budrot.

It just kept foxtailing until dimmed light but triggered stress hairs where it was just budding nonstop. You could tell by larf buds that it was a badly foxtailed plant. Buds overall just had that never ending bud build structure sometimes normal but not that plant.

Then I had stress hairs later on in my perpetual clone grows pretty often from gnats then aphids too. Root rot as a result. So my 8-10wk pheno was 12wks and still pushin white hairs. Like it needed 14 wks. Partly also because I lacked plant training so had many larf buds with no light so that didnt help. It didnt stop it from being 100% orange hairs in a other tent though.

Hope that helps, so in short, if its known to go 10wks give it 11 or 12 and if its still pushin out whites.. And you know you have some potential causes then consider chopping with mostly red hairs. I would tweak the setup tho and refer to notes try to figure out what went wrong. For next time. If you ran it a few times from seed.

Between seeds they can have a different harvest date because of that and even as clones, I have a 4 week window. I grew it for almost 2 yrs too. If its just the tops and they are growing that crown you saw in my example pic, thats a good sign to confidently chop. I was told those can go on indefinetly if not corrected or chopped if it just kept going.

Or else LOL if just turns into my picture which didnt intend to be such a extreme example available to find and show. Its up there with some of the most extreme ever seen. And its my plant lol.

The usual flower time for this strain is between week 9 and week 10. I'm currently on week 8 and the foxtails on the ends of the buds only showed up on week 7. Most of the pistils are orange now, I think she's got about a week or 2 left until I harvest them. Hopefully mine doesn't get bud rot

 

[medidedicated]

Ok then I still stand by what I said. It can be tricky I hate when that happens. I solved major issues tho and it paid off because theyre finishing ok for a perpetual grow.

 

[curious2garden]

View attachment 5467337

Foxtailing or just genetics maybe? Or is it down to it's final push at producing bud? Too much heat? or something?

Lovely plant! I just wanted to chime in and say I've had foxtailing from too much heat, light, senescence and genetics. I don't really worry about foxtails as I've found they only change bud structure. I don't sell so it wasn't an issue and my yield was fine and it pressed and smoked great.

 

[Delps8]

I've read through his thesis, which he defended and is Dr. Mitch as of 8/24, and have attached a copy. One thing that you'll see in various parts of the document is that when he discusses how the plants reacted to changes in the grow environment, one cultivar may have had a negative impact but the other one that was tested didn't. Despite the fact that there were small differences in how they reacted, the "Discussion" sessions tend to recommend a given course of action because his belief is that, overall, it's better to do X even though the different cultivars reacted slightly differently.

I don't see the document being attached to messages. Click harder?

[time passes]

It's a 19 mb file so, perhaps, too big to upload.

[time passes]

Opened the PDF in Word and saved it as PDF and, like magic, it's <5 mb.

 

[Dboybudz]

Huh, thats a good one, idk. What is its usual flower time? If week 6 out of like 9 it very well could just be growing especially if there are whites generally throughout the buds top and bottom. I guess I dont understand foxtails that much, that one I showed also had like what looked like 3 different molds growing in it including budrot.

It just kept foxtailing until dimmed light but triggered stress hairs where it was just budding nonstop. You could tell by larf buds that it was a badly foxtailed plant. Buds overall just had that never ending bud build structure sometimes normal but not that plant.

Then I had stress hairs later on in my perpetual clone grows pretty often from gnats then aphids too. Root rot as a result. So my 8-10wk pheno was 12wks and still pushin white hairs. Like it needed 14 wks. Partly also because I lacked plant training so had many larf buds with no light so that didnt help. It didnt stop it from being 100% orange hairs in a other tent though.

Hope that helps, so in short, if its known to go 10wks give it 11 or 12 and if its still pushin out whites.. And you know you have some potential causes then consider chopping with mostly red hairs. I would tweak the setup tho and refer to notes try to figure out what went wrong. For next time. If you ran it a few times from seed.

Between seeds they can have a different harvest date because of that and even as clones, I have a 4 week window. I grew it for almost 2 yrs too. If its just the tops and they are growing that crown you saw in my example pic, thats a good sign to confidently chop. I was told those can go on indefinetly if not corrected or chopped if it just kept going.

Or else LOL if just turns into my picture which didnt intend to be such a extreme example available to find and show. Its up there with some of the most extreme ever seen. And its my plant lol.

I don't have best pic but this is kritcal Kush from unknown breeder. Doesn't have nice fat indica leaves I'm used to. It's at 10 weeks plus a few days not sure what it's doing, a couple green spots in buds looking like reveg while the rest is coated in trikes and all orange pistols like 88% I was hoping to see some amber just a little for the sedative effect but being a indica I'm hoping cloudy will do. Ill have to chop in four days regardless with temps coming exhaust in room so. Is there anything to speed up ripen process like dim light. Need this plant for sleeping for edibles and tincture. Thanks bud

 

[medidedicated]

I don't have best pic but this is kritcal Kush from unknown breeder. Doesn't have nice fat indica leaves I'm used to. It's at 10 weeks plus a few days not sure what it's doing, a couple green spots in buds looking like reveg while the rest is coated in trikes and all orange pistols like 88% I was hoping to see some amber just a little for the sedative effect but being a indica I'm hoping cloudy will do. Ill have to chop in four days regardless with temps coming exhaust in room so. Is there anything to speed up ripen process like dim light. Need this plant for sleeping for edibles and tincture. Thanks bud
View attachment 5467382View attachment 5467383View attachment 5467384

I mean, not really any way to speed up really. It just finishes when it does but can try 9/15 lighting. It might signal to plant to finish faster as days are shorter. If early enough in veg could do gas lantern routene to make it even more faster. They say it works and my clones are finishing ablut a week or two faster but could he just healthy plants finishing faster as thats another way to speed things up.

For indica sedative high I mean, most of them are like that to me anyway lol. Some genetics amber heavily before its even time to chop like my pheno does.

 

[Dboybudz]

I mean, not really any way to speed up really. It just finishes when it does but can try 9/15 lighting. It might signal to plant to finish faster as days are shorter. If early enough in veg could do gas lantern routene to make it even more faster. They say it works and my clones are finishing ablut a week or two faster but could he just healthy plants finishing faster as thats another way to speed things up.

For indica sedative high I mean, most of them are like that to me anyway lol. Some genetics amber heavily before its even time to chop like my pheno does.

Yeah that was my plan in beginning to try gas lantern to finish earlier just forgot will have to try on next run. I'll reduce light now a couple hours anyway and maybe she'll ripen a little more,thanks for the input and sorry to jack thread @Fish scale

 

[Delps8]

Heh, breaking news on foxtailing (I know how to party, don't I!)

Just caught this YT short video where Shane is talking to Dr. Hawley from Fluence. The clip is from a longer video that I watched earlier this year but I didn't catch this detail. Hawley is talking about light levels and, paraphrasing, all's well until about 1200µmol but at that point…yada yada and he puts of graphic (screenshot below).

Yup, he classifies the "horns" as being foxtails.

I've never run at 1200 but I have seen horns/protuberances fox tailing at 1100± so I'll back off a bit for my next grow.

 

[nxsov180db]

I'm not sure what ppfd I am giving them bro, the light I am using is a Lumatek LED light on 100% and they have been fine on 100% for the last 6 weeks with no signs of foxtailing. They have been the same distance from the plants for the last 6 weeks with no signs of foxtailing. the light is 465watts. The light is about 15 - 20 inches away or something like that. I'm thinking it's because it's 29c in the tent maybe? it's defo not the distance of the light because the light distance has been the same distance for the last 6 weeks and I haven't changed anything. But I am slightly struggling with the temps tho. it's getting up to 29c sometimes.

You don't need as much light at the end. And you don't want your temps that warm either, both will cause the fox tailing. I bring my ppfd down to 600 or so by the end, temps around 70. Even early and mid bloom I used to run mid 80's for temp and now I keep it under or just at 80, typically its below 78, both my yield and quality has been better. And this is also with LED.

 

[ScroteCombover]

I'm running a 91 Chem cross and 3/4 of them had significant foxtails bc 91 Chem always foxtails. Could just be the strain ur running.

 

[Delps8]

Turn a software engineer loose on chatGPT and…

I uploaded this photo from my most recent grow and posed this question:

"I've uploaded this in reference to your comment "energy-driven "stacking" that’s more stem than flower (especially in sativa-dominant strains)." the cultivar was "original glue" from Nirvana which is listed as a hybrid and "crossing Chem's Sister with Sour Dubb and Chocolate Diesel.""

The "energy driven stacking" comment refers to a previous chat.



Here's the response:

"ChatGPT said:
Thanks for the upload — that cola looks well developed and not a case of excessive stem-driven stacking. Here's a breakdown based on the image and context:

What I See in the Photo
Bud structure: Dense and cohesive — the calyxes are tightly packed without extended spacing.
Sugar leaves: Abundant trichome coverage, curling slightly but not excessive (typical for late flower).
Top cola: Some upward growth near the top, but it's still calyx-rich and sticky — not classic foxtailing.
Stretch: Some vertical growth at the tip, but it's still flower-dominant, not stem-heavy or larfy.
Light response: The top isn't bleached, which is a good sign that PPFD and canopy temperature were well controlled.
Regarding Your Cultivar: Original Glue (Gorilla Glue #4 lineage)
This cultivar leans toward a balanced hybrid, but GG4 and its variants often show sativa-like structure in stretch and bud architecture, especially in late flower.
You're seeing typical hybrid morphology: a large terminal cola with some top-heavy stacking — likely genetics, not a sign of over-energized stretch.
Summary
Your cola appears:

Well-filled and calyx-heavy
Not stretched or airy
Rich in trichomes
Structurally typical for a Gorilla Glue-based hybrid
So when I referenced “energy-driven stacking that’s more stem than flower,” this is not that. What you’ve got is healthy, dense, light-stimulated flower development. If you continue to increase PPFD carefully (as we discussed), this type of flower formation is likely to improve even further — fatter, tighter, frostier — as long as your environmental and nutrient parameters keep pace.

Let me know if you want me to mark up the image to highlight development zones or if you want a comparison shot showing true over-elongation or foxtailing."

What I get from this is confirmation that the GorillaGlue derivatives (I don't know the right term from cannabis breeding ) is a very robust strain because this grow averaged >1000µmol for weeks and showed no signs of having issues.

 

[nxsov180db]

Turn a software engineer loose on chatGPT and…

I uploaded this photo from my most recent grow and posed this question:

"I've uploaded this in reference to your comment "energy-driven "stacking" that’s more stem than flower (especially in sativa-dominant strains)." the cultivar was "original glue" from Nirvana which is listed as a hybrid and "crossing Chem's Sister with Sour Dubb and Chocolate Diesel.""

The "energy driven stacking" comment refers to a previous chat.

View attachment 5475363

Here's the response:

"ChatGPT said:
Thanks for the upload — that cola looks well developed and not a case of excessive stem-driven stacking. Here's a breakdown based on the image and context:

What I See in the Photo
Bud structure: Dense and cohesive — the calyxes are tightly packed without extended spacing.
Sugar leaves: Abundant trichome coverage, curling slightly but not excessive (typical for late flower).
Top cola: Some upward growth near the top, but it's still calyx-rich and sticky — not classic foxtailing.
Stretch: Some vertical growth at the tip, but it's still flower-dominant, not stem-heavy or larfy.
Light response: The top isn't bleached, which is a good sign that PPFD and canopy temperature were well controlled.
Regarding Your Cultivar: Original Glue (Gorilla Glue #4 lineage)
This cultivar leans toward a balanced hybrid, but GG4 and its variants often show sativa-like structure in stretch and bud architecture, especially in late flower.
You're seeing typical hybrid morphology: a large terminal cola with some top-heavy stacking — likely genetics, not a sign of over-energized stretch.
Summary
Your cola appears:

Well-filled and calyx-heavy
Not stretched or airy
Rich in trichomes
Structurally typical for a Gorilla Glue-based hybrid
So when I referenced “energy-driven stacking that’s more stem than flower,” this is not that. What you’ve got is healthy, dense, light-stimulated flower development. If you continue to increase PPFD carefully (as we discussed), this type of flower formation is likely to improve even further — fatter, tighter, frostier — as long as your environmental and nutrient parameters keep pace.

Let me know if you want me to mark up the image to highlight development zones or if you want a comparison shot showing true over-elongation or foxtailing."

What I get from this is confirmation that the GorillaGlue derivatives (I don't know the right term from cannabis breeding ) is a very robust strain because this grow averaged >1000µmol for weeks and showed no signs of having issues.

View attachment 5475365

Too much light. Maybe heat, because heat will do that too, but my bet is on light intensity. Too much ppfd does funky things. There’s this myth floating around that 1000ppfd is great..

 

[nxsov180db]

And 1000ppfd won’t show sings of having issues, until the end the flower will look like that. I can’t sell that idk about you..

 

[Delps8]

Too much light. Maybe heat, because heat will do that too, but my bet is on light intensity. Too much ppfd does funky things. There’s this myth floating around that 1000ppfd is great..

I think I understand what you're trying to say but can't be sure.

My belief is that the horns are a result of genetics, using lots of light, and an extended flower time. Despite being vegged under a veg light, my plants grow to 4' plus and grows always take 110+ days.

Combine those factors and I suspect that the irregularities/variances in how plants grow will tend to be magnified. I'd like to grow beautiful, compact buds but they end up a 4", 6", 8" or larger.



It's not heat, though. I veg in the low 80's and keep bud temps <78°, per Westmoreland's research. In this last grow, bud temps were in the mid-70's and temps in the canopy were even lower. I put six Govee sensors in the canopy to monitor temps and RH.

"Too much ppfd does funky things." - no question. I've spent quite a bit of time learning about cannabis grow lights as well as a few years going cannabis at PPFD's of 1000 and higher.

Three years ago, I was penny wise and pound foolish and tried to light two plants with one light. (There is a plant on the left side of the tent.)

Yeh, don't do that!

It was a mess and I ended up buying a Vipar XS 1500 just to put over the small plant.







This is a closeup of Jeff, the taller plant. Those are fox tails. The were long and wispy and had no real shape light a regular bud. Instead of snipping off buds, I just put on a surgical glove and ran my hand down the branch. Yeh, it sucked.

And, yeh, I've seen fox tails close up and that's why I can argue in good faith that the flowers in the other photos are completely different that what is in the picture below.



"There’s this myth floating around that 1000ppfd is great.." - wouldn't know about myths. I tend to take a lot of the conventional wisdom with a grain of salt. It's my nature. I've been a software engineer for over 30 years so I try to be more evidence-based than dogma-based. I do know and there's scads of research and real world results to demonstrate that cannabis crop yield and quality (the ration of flower to above ground mass) increases in a linear/almost linear manner and bud quality, in terms of the percentage of secondary metabolites, tends to increase as light levels increase. That's not a myth.

On the other hand, light levels of 1000µmol is not as simple as turning up the timer. Feeding a plant like that will only work if the grow environment is sound and if the genetics will accommodate it. My understanding is that indicas tend to max out at about 800 while sativas are more able to take advantage of 1k.

I've grown hybrids, autos and photos, and the only fox tailing I've experienced was Jeff, the plant in the picture above. That's not surprising since the PPFD was probably at 1200 or so and my real world results, of fox tailing, mirrored what the pointy headed folks in the labs have talked about. Check out the Intracanopy lighting video on by Dr. Hawley at Fluence that's on You Tube.

So "myth"? Dunno what you mean by that but I can say that I'm one of many growers who are willing to give their plants that much light and we're getting the same sorts of results that's discussed in the research.