Cannabis and Firearms Question

flowfish

Member
Sorry if I'm re-hashing something, and I'm not trying to start a fight about guns because I know that there are people firmly on both sides of the issue and people in between. This is a legality question. A little background, I've handled/used firearms responsibly since I was 10yo. I "hunted" when I was young, never shot a damn thing and don't hunt anymore but I do backpack and fish in some very remote places and would very much like to have a sidearm for that as well as home defense in the unfortunate event that I would need it. I have gotten rid of my firearms to avoid any issues, I think my neighbors are not happy about cannabis usage and don't want to have any bigger issues if there's ever a complaint and my friendly neighborhood law enforcement officer pays a visit.

Had a conversation with a cannafriend the other day and got bashed because I really only use hemp technically as the flower I buy from the dispensary is below the 0.3% threshold. I thought about that for a little bit and now I'm curious -- if what I purchase legally under a state regulated program is technically classified as hemp under federal regs then I can legally possess a firearm correct?
 

Bad Karma

Well-Known Member
Sorry if I'm re-hashing something, and I'm not trying to start a fight about guns because I know that there are people firmly on both sides of the issue and people in between. This is a legality question. A little background, I've handled/used firearms responsibly since I was 10yo. I "hunted" when I was young, never shot a damn thing and don't hunt anymore but I do backpack and fish in some very remote places and would very much like to have a sidearm for that as well as home defense in the unfortunate event that I would need it. I have gotten rid of my firearms to avoid any issues, I think my neighbors are not happy about cannabis usage and don't want to have any bigger issues if there's ever a complaint and my friendly neighborhood law enforcement officer pays a visit.

Had a conversation with a cannafriend the other day and got bashed because I really only use hemp technically as the flower I buy from the dispensary is below the 0.3% threshold. I thought about that for a little bit and now I'm curious -- if what I purchase legally under a state regulated program is technically classified as hemp under federal regs then I can legally possess a firearm correct?
I’m not sure what state you’re in but I would not recommend a firearm.
Why? Because local law enforcement is not reliable, the laws may state one thing, but the cops may decide to do whatever they want.
We’ve all heard the horror stories of smokers and growers who’ve had nightmare encounters with the police despite following their local cannabis laws.

For home, and self defense, look into the Umarex HDR-50, you won’t regret it.
It’s the most well balanced and accurate pistol I’ve ever shot.
Since it’s an air gun, there’s no recoil/kickback, so your groupings are tight.
Which also means it doesn’t sound like a “gunshot” when fired, thus attracting a lot less attention from the neighbors.
You can buy them tuned up to 20-30 joules, which is more than enough power to put a serious hole in any home invader.
You can use .50 caliber steel ball bearings, glass marbles, and an assortment of other deadly objects for ammo.
There are also rubber riot balls if you want less lethal results.
 

flowfish

Member
That's pretty cool, I've never seen them before but definitely interested, won't help for outdoor adventures but definitely for home defense situations it might be decent alternative. The laws around cannabis and firearms are ridiculous and frustrating but I'm sure that I'm preaching to the choir.
 
Sorry if I'm re-hashing something, and I'm not trying to start a fight about guns because I know that there are people firmly on both sides of the issue and people in between. This is a legality question. A little background, I've handled/used firearms responsibly since I was 10yo. I "hunted" when I was young, never shot a damn thing and don't hunt anymore but I do backpack and fish in some very remote places and would very much like to have a sidearm for that as well as home defense in the unfortunate event that I would need it. I have gotten rid of my firearms to avoid any issues, I think my neighbors are not happy about cannabis usage and don't want to have any bigger issues if there's ever a complaint and my friendly neighborhood law enforcement officer pays a visit.

Had a conversation with a cannafriend the other day and got bashed because I really only use hemp technically as the flower I buy from the dispensary is below the 0.3% threshold. I thought about that for a little bit and now I'm curious -- if what I purchase legally under a state regulated program is technically classified as hemp under federal regs then I can legally possess a firearm correct?
FWIW, you’re moving from a “gray area” to an “even grayer area”.

Cannabis may be legal under your state system, but it’s still illegal federally. Which is the gray area.

Technically, under federal law it’s illegal for a user of cannabis to own, or purchase a firearm. It’s one of the questions you’re asked on the federal form when you purchase a firearm. So now you’ve crossed a second “grey area.”

A year ago the Supreme Court declared it a constitutional violation that anyone addicted to an illegal substance be barred from owning or purchasing firearms. So, the question on the form is technically illegal. But it’s still there.

To add confusion to the mix, since the question is still there, if you say “yes” to the question, you’ll be barred from purchasing a firearm (even though it’s illegal). If you say “no” to the question, you’ve lied on a federal form, which is technically a felony.

If that wasn’t enough, navigating all of this is tough enough. Imagine how easy it is for a local law enforcement officer with a high school diploma. So if they haven’t “figured it out” correctly, they’ll confiscate your firearms and charge you with something. Getting it all resolved (even if you weren’t wrong) is going to be expensive and a giant headache.

I’m personally a big advocate for people exercising their 2nd amendment rights. So don’t take this to mean I think you shouldn’t get a firearm, if you can responsibly operate one and you feel a need (whatever that need is) to have it. But I do think you should be aware of the challenging area you’re in if you decide to.
 

flowfish

Member
FWIW, you’re moving from a “gray area” to an “even grayer area”.

Cannabis may be legal under your state system, but it’s still illegal federally. Which is the gray area.

Technically, under federal law it’s illegal for a user of cannabis to own, or purchase a firearm. It’s one of the questions you’re asked on the federal form when you purchase a firearm. So now you’ve crossed a second “grey area.”

A year ago the Supreme Court declared it a constitutional violation that anyone addicted to an illegal substance be barred from owning or purchasing firearms. So, the question on the form is technically illegal. But it’s still there.

To add confusion to the mix, since the question is still there, if you say “yes” to the question, you’ll be barred from purchasing a firearm (even though it’s illegal). If you say “no” to the question, you’ve lied on a federal form, which is technically a felony.

If that wasn’t enough, navigating all of this is tough enough. Imagine how easy it is for a local law enforcement officer with a high school diploma. So if they haven’t “figured it out” correctly, they’ll confiscate your firearms and charge you with something. Getting it all resolved (even if you weren’t wrong) is going to be expensive and a giant headache.

I’m personally a big advocate for people exercising their 2nd amendment rights. So don’t take this to mean I think you shouldn’t get a firearm, if you can responsibly operate one and you feel a need (whatever that need is) to have it. But I do think you should be aware of the challenging area you’re in if you decide to.
You're ignoring the biggest part of my original question being that if it's below the legal threshold of THC content that delineates Marijuana from Hemp would it be lying if you check no on the ATF form? That was my real question. It's more of a question of technicality, don't get me started on all of the alcoholics that truly are addicted to alcohol and can get hammered at will and still have firearms. If it's technically hemp which gray area has been crossed?
 
You're ignoring the biggest part of my original question being that if it's below the legal threshold of THC content that delineates Marijuana from Hemp would it be lying if you check no on the ATF form? That was my real question. It's more of a question of technicality, don't get me started on all of the alcoholics that truly are addicted to alcohol and can get hammered at will and still have firearms. If it's technically hemp which gray area has been crossed?
Maybe a gray area within a gray area within a gray area, lol.

There aren’t any clear guidelines on that. It’s legal to possess hemp. But even that becomes more of an issue. So hemp that has below 0.3% THC is not a scheduled 1 drug. It’s legal, under the Farm Bill, to own. But how do you know what THC level your specific weed has? You don’t. Your supplier is required to test random plants, but not every plant. And if that plant that is tested (but not necessarily the one sold to you) is found to be above the threshold, they have to destroy that batch. But there is no way to know, or tell, if what you have bought is above or below 0.3% THC.

Here’s where things get more confusing. Lets say you intended to buy illegal weed, and the guy sold you oregano. Did you violate the law? No. You intended to violate the law, but you didn’t possess a controlled substance. Lets say you intended to buy oregano, and the guy sold you weed. Did you violate the law? Technically no, as you needed intent to violate the law (although ignorance of the law is no excuse, and claiming you thought it was oregano might not fly in court). What does that mean? If you intended to buy CBD, but it was weed, technically it wouldn’t be illegal. Even though you possessed an illegal substance. If you then smoked that illegal substance, you have violated the regulations surrounding gun ownership. If you intended to buy weed, and it was CBD, technically it wouldn’t be illegal. Even though you had the intent to violate the law.

But even if it is just CBD you bought, and just CBD you consumed, THC can build up in your system, at levels that are consistent with someone that used illegal marijuana. So there is no way to tell what you consumed. There was a truck driver in VA (I think) a few years back that used CBD for back pain. THC built up in his system, and pursuant to DOT random drug tests, he tested positive. Which means he lost his CDL, and his job. The employer wanted to keep him, but DOT regulations bound their hands. He appealed, and said he was lawfully using a product, but didn’t matter. There was an opportunity for him to take a substance abuse class and get his license back. But when he applied, he was declined, because he never used an illegal substance, and so he was disqualified from substance abuse classes. It was illegal enough to get him fired, but not illegal enough for him to get his job back.

Now where do firearms fall within this realm. The Form 4473 asks “are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcontic drug, or any other controlled substance?” When purchasing a firearm, you have to answer that question. If you believe the CBD you acquired was “lawful” under the Farm Bill, you passed the first part. If you’re “addicted to” the THC component within CBD, or if it’s possible you are “addicted to” CBD that was actually marijuana, then you *should** say “yes”. If you believe you are not addicted to, and was never an unlawful user of any controlled substance, you should say “no.” But that’s up to you.

Now, after the fact, if you have THC in your system, from CBD, technically under federal law (the same one involving the DOT regulations with the Truck Driver) there is no way for them to differentiate if you smoked CBD or marijuana. And at that point, they could determine that you’re illegally in possession of firearms.

The odds of that happening are like as close to zero as possible. But as close to zero as possible is not “zero.” Hence you should be aware of the issue.

Which makes even more of this weird. Marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug. What makes marijuana marijuana? THC. So if you remove the THC, it isn’t marijuana. AKA, hemp. But synthetic THC is a Schedule 3 drug. So THC in a plant makes it Schedule 1, but THC extracted from a plant makes it Schedule 3 and the plant an uncontrolled substance. Hemp itself, in the plant form, is considered cannabis, and is prosecuted as a Schedule 1 drug. So if you grow hemp without a permit under your state program, it’s a Schedule 1 drug when it’s growing, but the second you cut the stem, it’s a legal CBD product and legal to own dump trucks full of. Just weird.

The other problem is, if you get pulled over by someone (say driving to or from a range, something any responsible firearm owner should do), and you’re in possession of a firearm and CBD, there’s nothing stopping the officer from confiscating both and charging you. Then sending the CBD to the lab to see what the levels are. For all he knows, you took marijuana and put it in a CBD container (assuming you have the CBD container). At that point you really hope the source of your CBD was on their testing game. You may ultimately win that, but it’s a pain in the ass, and expensive to deal with. Hence, you should be aware of it.
 

sunni

Administrator
Staff member
Hello we clearly are not following tos rules here, we do not talk politics outside of politics, even more so threats of violence will not be tolerated here,

stick to the specific questionat hand, not your personal political opinions
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
In Colorado, they take having guns and drugs in the same location very seriously. If you're a medical user and you grow your own, they'll be pretty lenient- until they see a gun. Then you're screwed.

However, they've said that they take crimes committed against growers very seriously and those go to the top of the priority list precisely because this group can't use guns to defend themselves.

That said, I've never met a grower who got robbed at home and called the cops so I don't know how true that is.
 
@WhatWouldBobDo - It's so many gray areas inside of gray areas inside of mysteries wrapped up in enigmas. BUT, I guess the "unlawful" user of language spells it out unfortunately.
Guns aside, it’s actually quite challenging to comply with most of these laws, let alone understand what they mean.

If I can’t understand what they are, I don’t understand how I can get prosecuted for violating one.

But no one said the laws need to make sense, right?

Most people that I know treat guns and cannabis (CBD or THC) like oil and water. A carry over from the “illegal” days (for those that aren’t in them now). When the cops would show up to raid a grower, or a dealer, and they just had drugs, they took things “easy.” When they showed up to raid a grower, or a dealer, and they found a firearm, they threw the book at ‘em. Old habits die hard I guess.
 

Bad Karma

Well-Known Member
In Colorado, they take having guns and drugs in the same location very seriously. If you're a medical user and you grow your own, they'll be pretty lenient- until they see a gun. Then you're screwed.

However, they've said that they take crimes committed against growers very seriously and those go to the top of the priority list precisely because this group can't use guns to defend themselves.

That said, I've never met a grower who got robbed at home and called the cops so I don't know how true that is.
Maybe I wasn’t being clear enough when I originally posted, so thank you for taking the time to word it better.
Cannabis/Hemp Grow + Firearms = Bad News.
That’s why I recommended the HDR-50, it gives you some real defense in case of attack, but can’t get you in trouble with the law if it’s discovered at your grow site.
Also, for someone like me that suffers from depression, having a firearm lying around when your depression kicks in is not a good idea.
 
That’s why I recommended the HDR-50, it gives you some real defense in case of attack, but can’t get you in trouble with the law if it’s discovered at your grow site.
Would law enforcement view an air powered 50 call weapon different than a 22?

Not arguing. Literal question.

I assumed any weapons, machete, crossbow, compound archery bow, air rifle, would be viewed similarly. My assumption could be incorrect obviously.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Maybe I wasn’t being clear enough when I originally posted, so thank you for taking the time to word it better.
Cannabis/Hemp Grow + Firearms = Bad News.
That’s why I recommended the HDR-50, it gives you some real defense in case of attack, but can’t get you in trouble with the law if it’s discovered at your grow site.
Also, for someone like me that suffers from depression, having a firearm lying around when your depression kicks in is not a good idea.
These seem contradictory; if it's powerful enough to stop a home invader- possibly an armed one, how is it not a lethal weapon?
 

MissinThe90’sStrains

Well-Known Member
Would law enforcement view an air powered 50 call weapon different than a 22?

Not arguing. Literal question.

I assumed any weapons, machete, crossbow, compound archery bow, air rifle, would be viewed similarly. My assumption could be incorrect obviously.
It‘s the lack of a powder charge and primer means that it’s not technically a classified as a “firearm”. At least that’s how the law worked in my state when I last looked it up, to buy my air rifles to help me handle the squirrels in my garden. Yes they’re weapons and they can kill, but the law is the law, and it doesn’t always make sense.
 
It‘s the lack of a powder charge and primer means that it’s not technically a classified as a “firearm”.
I wasn't implying an air powered weapon was a firearm. I agree, the laws are pretty clear on the definition.

I think my question was more, if you got stopped by the police, would you be in less trouble by lawfully owning an air powered 50 cal weapon that can "put a hole in an intruder" along with CBD/THC, over lawfully owning a firearm and CBD/THC (in accordance with supreme Court rulings).

I assumed John Law wouldn't say "GET ON THE F***ING GROUND YOU SCUMBAG WITH A GUN . . . oh wait, everyone, it's cool, it'll just kill you with air, no need to worry, sorry sir!"

But . . . I'm not John law, lol, nor have I been stopped with CBD and an air powered weapon.
 
Sorry if I'm re-hashing something, and I'm not trying to start a fight about guns because I know that there are people firmly on both sides of the issue and people in between. This is a legality question. A little background, I've handled/used firearms responsibly since I was 10yo. I "hunted" when I was young, never shot a damn thing and don't hunt anymore but I do backpack and fish in some very remote places and would very much like to have a sidearm for that as well as home defense in the unfortunate event that I would need it. I have gotten rid of my firearms to avoid any issues, I think my neighbors are not happy about cannabis usage and don't want to have any bigger issues if there's ever a complaint and my friendly neighborhood law enforcement officer pays a visit.

Had a conversation with a cannafriend the other day and got bashed because I really only use hemp technically as the flower I buy from the dispensary is below the 0.3% threshold. I thought about that for a little bit and now I'm curious -- if what I purchase legally under a state regulated program is technically classified as hemp under federal regs then I can legally possess a firearm correct?
You've got to decide at what level self protection is important to you. What the neighbors think is way down the list. You have got a moral right to use cannabis because that blessing was consciousness-manifested. Don't tell the neighbors anything you don't want the PD knowing. Enjoy your favorite smoke discretely and live as a free man.
 
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