Please help me understand why LM301H EVO is better than LM301B

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blyat

New Member
I am looking to buy a new light, its gonna be either SE1000 EVO / SE1000 LM301B (SpiderFarmer) or FC1000 EVO from Marshydro.
I see that the Spiderfarmer with the older LM301B diodes, has a a far higher PPFD on the PARMAP on their website. Why would I pay more for the LM301H EVO diode?

Thanks In advance growers, I am just a newbie but I want to become elite
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
One thing to consider in your choice is that there is no doubt that next year there will be a new diode or a new driver or something that will make whatever "the best" is, now, obsolete before the warranty ends. Then you, as with most of us who have been at it for awhile, will accumulate all kinds of "last year's tech" lights....and you will remember when you were having this conversation about diodes! ;)

Your plants won't care that much (if at all) about the diodes. I'm running an Updayday light (Chinese) and who knows what kind of diodes it has....and it's kicking ass more than any other light I've ever used -including those with Samsung diodes! Just saying....:)
 
K

KitnerPush

Active Member
I have not yet seen any major convincing arguments for using H EVO over H. There may be a slight better pest control with H EVO, but still haven't seen any convincing arguments. People claim higher cannabinoids, still no convincing arguments. The Evo is slightly more efficient. TBH unless you got a 100 light grow, you are probably not going to see any major difference in efficiency, as the efficiency difference is only marginal in a single light. I'd go for lower price higher PPF. The newest studies from bugbee and CO say temperature and intensity show greater results than spectrum. That I believe.

I'm also starting to believe that a photon that comes from Samsung is just as valuable to a plant than a photon from say a Cree diode. You really can't go wrong...

H EVO is 437nm while all other diodes are 450nm base blue die (the die in the diode before adding sulphur to make it white)

I'm a fan of HLG's approach, their spectrum is a little bluer than many others which builds healthier veg. and is a versatile spectrum for a wide range of plants and to control stretchy plants. But their lights are also really expensive and from everything I've learned about LED, I'm not sure I support that aspect other than supporting US made.
 
waytoofaded

waytoofaded

Well-Known Member
KitnerPush said:
I have not yet seen any major convincing arguments for using H EVO over H. There may be a slight better pest control with H EVO, but still haven't seen any convincing arguments. People claim higher cannabinoids, still no convincing arguments. The Evo is slightly more efficient. TBH unless you got a 100 light grow, you are probably not going to see any major difference in efficiency, as the efficiency difference is only marginal in a single light. I'd go for lower price higher PPF. The newest studies from bugbee and CO say temperature and intensity show greater results than spectrum. That I believe.

I'm also starting to believe that a photon that comes from Samsung is just as valuable to a plant than a photon from say a Cree diode. You really can't go wrong...

H EVO is 437nm while all other diodes are 450nm base blue die (the die in the diode before adding sulphur to make it white)

I'm a fan of HLG's approach, their spectrum is a little bluer than many others which builds healthier veg. and is a versatile spectrum for a wide range of plants and to control stretchy plants. But their lights are also really expensive and from everything I've learned about LED, I'm not sure I support that aspect other than supporting US made.
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The H Evo is only slightly more efficient too (3.14 umol/j vs 3.1 umol/j) which is quickly negated by the minimal amount of diodes the H Evo fixtures uses compared to the lm301b/h counterpart.

IMO the H Evo will only be worth purchasing when manufacturers stop skimping on diode count, and drive them down to 0.25w to 0.3w per diode.
 
Spiderfarmerled

Spiderfarmerled

Well-Known Member
Rollitup Advertiser
Hello, we don’t have an SE1000 model. You might be referring to the SF1000 (LM301H EVO) and SF1000D (LM301B)?

The LM301H EVO diodes are more efficient than LM301B, which means you'll get more light output per watt, improving the overall performance. In addition, the SF1000 has a dimming function that allows you to adjust the light intensity according to different growth stages, while the SF1000D can only adapt to different growth stages by adjusting the hanging height. This is why the SF1000D is a bit cheaper.

Hope that helps!
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Lm301b / 301h : its the same diode. Exactly the same, only difference is in binning (testing for output) : bs are tested for lums (which measure brightness to the human eye) and hs are binned using ppf (plant related, measures output in photons) and the h is always top bin. Waterproof, extra sulfur resistant yadayada: its the same in both diodes but in the h model they push these features for more for marketing. Its the same diode but lets say the H is elite, but a top bin b would be the same.
301h evo- has a different photon pump and phosphor. The 437nm photon pump means the blue peak hits both chlorophyll a and bs action spectrum. I would expect a little better plant health but i havent tried it.
Efficiency gain in evo h: somewhat illusory: due to a different and lower blue peak the evo h can achieve the same cct spectrum with less phosphor. Which means a some efficiency gain. But its not comparing apples to apples, a 3500k evo h is comparable to a 4000k with a 450nm photon pump if you look at real rgb energy levels. They get away with this due to cct spectrum being human eye centric; the same amount of cold/warm to the human eye is done with more total blue in the evo-h. And the more blue in your white diode the more efficient it is, phosphor added always means some efficiency loss.
 
D

Diode.Dude

Member
Samsung LED is exiting the LED market. Certain EOLs went a few months ago, and as of this week, all general lighting LEDs(Horti is in general lighting) have been EOL'ed.
Last time buys in June 25, all last parts shipped by dec 25. So still time for people to stock up, but why? Samsung 301's are great...but they aren't magic or anything different than other top LED companies.
Cree(3030 E, 2835 G), Nichia(757), Osram(Duris and osconiq), all have great options to hit 301 specs all day. 3030 or 2835's.
 
B

blyat

New Member
Thank you so much everyone, Maybe I am overthinking it too much. I will check which is the best deal money wise and act accordingly. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to respond to my post.
 
Rufus T. Firefly

Rufus T. Firefly

Well-Known Member
What is the size and setup of your grow space? For example a thousand watts may be too much wattage for a 5x5 if you aren't ruining CO2 in a closed room.

I think 700-ish watts might be more efficient in a 5x5 tent.
 
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KitnerPush

Active Member
blyat said:
Thank you so much everyone, Maybe I am overthinking it too much. I will check which is the best deal money wise and act accordingly. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to respond to my post.
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Theres a banging deal on the 700w from that company that also makes drip emitters... cant think of the name right now.. starts with a b
 
welight

welight

Well-Known Member
Diode.Dude said:
Samsung LED is exiting the LED market. Certain EOLs went a few months ago, and as of this week, all general lighting LEDs(Horti is in general lighting) have been EOL'ed.
Last time buys in June 25, all last parts shipped by dec 25. So still time for people to stock up, but why? Samsung 301's are great...but they aren't magic or anything different than other top LED companies.
Cree(3030 E, 2835 G), Nichia(757), Osram(Duris and osconiq), all have great options to hit 301 specs all day. 3030 or 2835's.
Click to expand...
For anyone interested
Cree Cross Reference to Samsung
Cree Performance vs Samsung
1733964286199.png
 
K

KitnerPush

Active Member
ttystikk said:
About 8 years ago I built a shit ton of LED modules with Cree CXB3590 chips, used 90 degree lenses and they grow plants like crazy to this very day.
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You would have done that with citizen, lumileds or any COB of that time too. In fact, lumileds were and are more efficient than Cree. I'm not saying cree doesn't grow bud, I'm saying their pricing has not been feasible compared to Osram in their mono lineup, and I'm not buying the fact that we need to move to Cree because Samsung is ending production. There are a lot better options out there, at much lower prices. The brand-hype inflated prices should end...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
KitnerPush said:
You would have done that with citizen, lumileds or any COB of that time too. In fact, lumileds were and are more efficient than Cree. I'm not saying cree doesn't grow bud, I'm saying their pricing has not been feasible compared to Osram in their mono lineup, and I'm not buying the fact that we need to move to Cree because Samsung is ending production. There are a lot better options out there, at much lower prices. The brand-hype inflated prices should end...
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Eight years ago they were highly competitive on price and performance, which is why I used them. Things change and I have no idea who has the lead now.

The point I made above is that no matter what you choose, if the design is solid you'll be able to use the lights for many years, even decades.

Here's what I did with them;
20160226_104711.jpg
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Eight years ago they were highly competitive on price and performance, which is why I used them. Things change and I have no idea who has the lead now.

The point I made above is that no matter what you choose, if the design is solid you'll be able to use the lights for many years, even decades.

Here's what I did with them;
View attachment 5445566
Click to expand...
Initially it seems as cree cxb datasheet overstated their spec or that someone messed up those spreadsheets; chilledled did sphere tests which gave much lower output, also all those tests done by @CobKits in his looooong thread had some veros and other cobs ranked higher.
Im not a cob guy though, midpowers seems much easier to work with.
 
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