Can I go Trimless?

[OBWan5269]

Greetings to my fellow indoor grower bros and gals. I've been Lurking and Learning for a while. Wow, you folks, this place and stuff is fascinating!

I have some questions i'm hoping to learn about.
I'm starting a DTW Coco project. My intention is to use

SOG, 1 gallon fabric pots with 8 inch centers (stem to stem) with about 1 inch between pots.

Start with clones directly into the pots. 1 week of veg or less.

I'm anticipating a 10 to 11 week cycle.

Will I have to trim or will I be able to get away with the straight to flower / many small pots / single cola / short cycle grow?

OBWan5269

 

[bignugs68]

Welcome!!! I'm fairly new as well to growing, but like you I've been reading for a LONG time. 1gal pots with 8" diameter is what I read right? never heard of stem to stem, but I'm guessing that means edge to edge. I would imagine you'll still need to trim the sides and such, in fact I thought that was the purpose of those grows to remove all branches but leave the budsites on the main stem node. Even 12/12 from start you will have branches extending beyond the 1inch gap between them, because they will still veg for about month, or so I've read - The Dude Grow Show. I've never used the many plants, quick grow method like SOG.

Also if you don't have a PPFD reader(how much light a point in your tent is receiving), definitely get one. For free you can use the app Photone with a diffuser. On my old pixel 6a, its within 8ppfd of what my light manual says it should read, all within human error. Like me holding it at a slight angle. Just remember to cover you're front camera with a piece of white printer paper(cheapest diffuser) and check if the app on your phone reads PPFD close to the number(s) your light's manual says it should at 100% 12", 18", and 24" away; those are the distances rated in my manual anyways.

 

[StareCase]

Clone to flower ... doable provided the clones were taken from a sexually mature mom.

 

[THT]

1 week of veg or less.

we do this regularly with clones and -strain depending- they stay pretty small, I would usually veg a little longer to get substantial yields, from seed 12/12 is great

 

[OBWan5269]

Welcome!!! I'm fairly new as well to growing, but like you I've been reading for a LONG time. 1gal pots with 8" diameter is what I read right? never heard of stem to stem, but I'm guessing that means edge to edge. I would imagine you'll still need to trim the sides and such, in fact I thought that was the purpose of those grows to remove all branches but leave the budsites on the main stem node. Even 12/12 from start you will have branches extending beyond the 1inch gap between them, because they will still veg for about month, or so I've read - The Dude Grow Show. I've never used the many plants, quick grow method like SOG.

Also if you don't have a PPFD reader(how much light a point in your tent is receiving), definitely get one. For free you can use the app Photone with a diffuser. On my old pixel 6a, its within 8ppfd of what my light manual says it should read, all within human error. Like me holding it at a slight angle. Just remember to cover you're front camera with a piece of white printer paper(cheapest diffuser) and check if the app on your phone reads PPFD close to the number(s) your light's manual says it should at 100% 12", 18", and 24" away; those are the distances rated in my manual anyways.

Welcome!!! I'm fairly new as well to growing, but like you I've been reading for a LONG time. 1gal pots with 8" diameter is what I read right? never heard of stem to stem, but I'm guessing that means edge to edge. I would imagine you'll still need to trim the sides and such, in fact I thought that was the purpose of those grows to remove all branches but leave the budsites on the main stem node. Even 12/12 from start you will have branches extending beyond the 1inch gap between them, because they will still veg for about month, or so I've read - The Dude Grow Show. I've never used the many plants, quick grow method like SOG.

Also if you don't have a PPFD reader(how much light a point in your tent is receiving), definitely get one. For free you can use the app Photone with a diffuser. On my old pixel 6a, its within 8ppfd of what my light manual says it should read, all within human error. Like me holding it at a slight angle. Just remember to cover you're front camera with a piece of white printer paper(cheapest diffuser) and check if the app on your phone reads PPFD close to the number(s) your light's manual says it should at 100% 12", 18", and 24" away; those are the distances rated in my manual anyways.

BN68, thanks for the great perspectives! I'll have to get that app. My light says its for 6x6 veg & 5x5 flower. Once i'm set up - I'll see.

 

[OBWan5269]

Clone to flower ... doable provided the clones were taken from a sexually mature mom.

Hi StareCase,
I'm pretty sure that they will be from a sexually mature mom. I'll have to verify that from my clone guy.

I know that there are a lot of variables but it's good to hear that it's likely possible. The trimming is what I wasn't quite sure about. I'm going to have a lot of challenges but if I can possibly bypass the trimming it's going to make the cycle very much more OBWan5269 friendly! (you know...the knees and back stuff!) I will have a lot more ability to chase technical issues and keep an eye on everything.

OBWan5269

 

[OBWan5269]

we do this regularly with clones and -strain depending- they stay pretty small, I would usually veg a little longer to get substantial yields, from seed 12/12 is great

Thanks THT
It's great to hear that this can be done. I've been thinking that the strain will be either a big help or a big pain.... "choose wisely" as the saying goes!

I know the indicas are much better for this than the sativas, but I think (at least at this point) that I would like a sativa dominant strain ultimately if I can find the right one and get proficient at this cycle.

OBWan5269

 

[OBWan5269]

we do this regularly with clones and -strain depending- they stay pretty small, I would usually veg a little longer to get substantial yields, from seed 12/12 is great

Do you find that when you run the longer veg, that they can still, free stand on their own?

When they "stay pretty small", about what heights do you typically see at finish?

Thanks for helping me out to get some more insight. It's really helpful for my planning and of course lowering the pain of the getting going phase!

OBWan5269

 

[Star Dog]

What you're suggesting is pretty much what I do with clones.

3ltr pots, coco.

 

[OBWan5269]

What you're suggesting is pretty much what I do with clones.
View attachment 5442555View attachment 5442556
3ltr pots, coco.

Thanks for the pics Star Dog. You have some great looking plants. Do you hand water or use an irrigation system?

About how far along, are those, and how long do they typically take till they finish?

Are you using 3 liters pots, to help reduce the watering / fertigation events?

OBWan5269

 

[THT]

that they can still, free stand on their own?

Lots of factors in this, the strain for sure, the base/pot that you are using, and i recommend ALWAYS using a net if you can to help support and keep things even.

When they "stay pretty small", about what heights do you typically see at finish?

between 1 and 2 feet. small, low yield, usually not worth the wait for less than 1oz.

 

[Star Dog]

Thanks for the pics Star Dog. You have some great looking plants. Do you hand water or use an irrigation system?

About how far along, are those, and how long do they typically take till they finish?

Are you using 3 liters pots, to help reduce the watering / fertigation events?

OBWan5269

Thanks bud, i was using a auto feeder I put together at the time to deal with the small pots frequency of feeding, the pot size wasn't by design they were just to hand at the time, with 3ltr feeding is too frequent it's a pain to calculate the necessary volume +15% 3/7 times a day.

9/10wks is about average for me with clones depending on the strain.

Diary and other stuff.

Jan 11th... Seeds sown, skunk special, star dog and kings juice. Bc = blue cheese x blueberry aka bluchi. Bc clones male 3x female 2x (flwr) 11th... Re vegging bc mother. January 24th 5 seedlings from 9 seeds isn't great. 3x bc male clones. 24.7/25.2c 65/68% ec 0.9 ph 5.9... Bc mother Jan...

www.rollitup.org

I found pics of those plants in growth.

 

[OBWan5269]

Lots of factors in this, the strain for sure, the base/pot that you are using, and i recommend ALWAYS using a net if you can to help support and keep things even.



between 1 and 2 feet. small, low yield, usually not worth the wait for less than 1oz.

Thanks THT,

I was wondering about using a net. Looks like i will deploy them!
Are you getting hollow stems?
1-2 feet is smaller than i was imagining! I was suspecting 2-3 feet.
I guess strain and veg will need to be balanced to accommodate my targets.

OBWan5269

 

[OBWan5269]

Thanks bud, i was using a auto feeder I put together at the time to deal with the small pots frequency of feeding, the pot size wasn't by design they were just to hand at the time, with 3ltr feeding is too frequent it's a pain to calculate the necessary volume +15% 3/7 times a day.

9/10wks is about average for me with clones depending on the strain.

Diary and other stuff.

Jan 11th... Seeds sown, skunk special, star dog and kings juice. Bc = blue cheese x blueberry aka bluchi. Bc clones male 3x female 2x (flwr) 11th... Re vegging bc mother. January 24th 5 seedlings from 9 seeds isn't great. 3x bc male clones. 24.7/25.2c 65/68% ec 0.9 ph 5.9... Bc mother Jan...

www.rollitup.org

I found pics of those plants in growth.

Whoa Dude! I just skimmed that "Diary and other stuff", you're running some extraordinary botany there bro! Some of those specimens are just pistil bombs!

I've got what I need to run with the dry salts, but I'm going to start with Jacks 321 till I get some experience and confidence in my equipment.

I just read the thread about the lighting profiles and that sounds like a revolutionary paradigm enlightenment. Definitely goes against what you would intuitively expect. Somebody's comment of "best thing I have ever done" sure says a lot.

Thanks for sharing, it's a real eye opener.

OBWan5269

 

[Rocket Soul]

What is the destination of all your produce? This is what is going to let you know if you can go trimless.

To me a 10-11 week cycle seems a little optimistic if you dont have a separate veg/seedling area. If youre lacking in space its also a good idea tofigure out how youre going to dry and cure all your produce.

We moved away from this type of growing due to difficulties in maintaining a healthy environment for the plants, too packed in its hard to control rh underneath cannopy, many crops lost to bud rot and pm

 

[Star Dog]

I've got what I need to run with the dry salts, but I'm going to start with Jacks 321 till I get some experience and confidence in my equipment.

It sounds like you've got the right idea bro just learning a bit at a time to get enough confidence in your method, as time goes on you get more comfortable in what you're doing, starting seems daunting there's a lot to take in at the start tbf.

 

[OBWan5269]

What is the destination of all your produce? This is what is going to let you know if you can go trimless.

To me a 10-11 week cycle seems a little optimistic if you dont have a separate veg/seedling area. If youre lacking in space its also a good idea tofigure out how youre going to dry and cure all your produce.

We moved away from this type of growing due to difficulties in maintaining a healthy environment for the plants, too packed in its hard to control rh underneath cannopy, many crops lost to bud rot and pm

Rocket Soul, big thanks for the benefit of your experience. I truly appreciate it and thank you for passing it on. You clearly have a good level of decency in you to warn this blooming idiot of what he's up against. I think I can make this work, i have seen it done and am going to give it a go.

The 10-11 week cycle is regularly achieved with fertigated coco, run at "on demand" events dictated by adjusting fertigation frequency to deliver target runoff. I am confident that if I meet the feeding needs as dictated by the runoff in coco, that its basically hydroponics being run in soil free coco. Meeting the called for fertigation frequency, produces optimized feeding / oxygenation with very similar to hydroponics conditions / results.

The canopy humidity and powdery mildew / bud rot are likely some of the main challenges. I'm just dumb enough to think that since I've seen it done, I will somehow be able to figure it out (and I have some really good clues!) It's still possible that I may crash and burn. But I'm gonna try it!

I don't have to meet any schedules or deadlines. I'll just use my grow space to dry / cure these plants. I'll get my clones from a buddy. I'm under no pressure or constraints - I'm doing this for fun.

All that said,
I want to thank you for your warnings of what you have experienced! I really appreciate it and have learned more from it! Thanks buddy!

OBWan5269

 

[OBWan5269]

It sounds like you've got the right idea bro just learning a bit at a time to get enough confidence in your method, as time goes on you get more comfortable in what you're doing, starting seems daunting there's a lot to take in at the start tbf.

Thanks Star Dog,
There is a lot to understand and I am just getting a beginning of what I think I need. I've been studying for some time and a lot of it is starting to fall into place. I am feeling ready to start the hands on learning (my garage may be a bit behind - but it's coming along!)

OBWan5269

 

[Rocket Soul]

Rocket Soul, big thanks for the benefit of your experience. I truly appreciate it and thank you for passing it on. You clearly have a good level of decency in you to warn this blooming idiot of what he's up against. I think I can make this work, i have seen it done and am going to give it a go.

The 10-11 week cycle is regularly achieved with fertigated coco, run at "on demand" events dictated by adjusting fertigation frequency to deliver target runoff. I am confident that if I meet the feeding needs as dictated by the runoff in coco, that its basically hydroponics being run in soil free coco. Meeting the called for fertigation frequency, produces optimized feeding / oxygenation with very similar to hydroponics conditions / results.

The canopy humidity and powdery mildew / bud rot are likely some of the main challenges. I'm just dumb enough to think that since I've seen it done, I will somehow be able to figure it out (and I have some really good clues!) It's still possible that I may crash and burn. But I'm gonna try it!

I don't have to meet any schedules or deadlines. I'll just use my grow space to dry / cure these plants. I'll get my clones from a buddy. I'm under no pressure or constraints - I'm doing this for fun.

All that said,
I want to thank you for your warnings of what you have experienced! I really appreciate it and have learned more from it! Thanks buddy!

OBWan5269

Try small fans standing in between the pots or facing tent walls, this creates a sort of diffuse airmovement underneath your cannopy which will help against molds. Hope all works put and sorry if i sound doomy. Losing a crop to mold is the worst

 

[OBWan5269]

Try small fans standing in between the pots or facing tent walls, this creates a sort of diffuse airmovement underneath your cannopy which will help against molds. Hope all works put and sorry if i sound doomy. Losing a crop to mold is the worst

Please accept my condolences for mold crop losses. I think this is one of the most significant problems that i will have to address. Thank you for the small fans advice. I will probably re double my air circulation efforts! The seriousness of PM and Bud Rot sound like the largest of the challenges that will have to be surmounted / mastered. I would love to get my hands on one of the AC Infinity dehumidifying, AC atmospheric controllers that are currently sold out, I think that it would be really helpful. I have my fingers crossed! I currently have some of the small clip on fans but it sounds like i should greatly increase the air flow to keep the canopy rh buildup from establishing PM and bud rot conditions.

OBWan5269