Droopy plant dry leaves in coco. Not looking happy.

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Pics of my clones. Some stretching but then good spacing, just a dance with the light. Too close or too far. Too far is easier to fix than too close. Only recently realized this as a newer grower that theyre sensative unless things are really dialed in?

Idk Im high its time to go to bed lol. Ive had them look like yours though not even that long ago.
 

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FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
What level are you feeding at now?
It is getting 1.2 ec daily not including the starting ec of the water which is about 0.3. I will probably bump that up to 1.4 then maybe 1.6 if its happy. Unless somebody more informed has a better idea.
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
Pics of my clones. Some stretching but then good spacing, just a dance with the light. Too close or too far. Too far is easier to fix than too close. Only recently realized this as a newer grower that theyre sensative unless things are really dialed in?

Idk Im high its time to go to bed lol. Ive had them look like yours though not even that long ago.

Very pretty plant buddy! Enjoy! Thanks for stopping by
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Last thing I will add if not mentioned already is I dont up ec unless runoff ec is the same or less than incoming ec. Had to juice up my clones a lot of ec to get them to stop also showing the same signs you may have.
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
It is getting 1.2 ec daily not including the starting ec of the water which is about 0.3. I will probably bump that up to 1.4 then maybe 1.6 if its happy. Unless somebody more informed has a better idea.
It doesn't appear you have a nute problem. It looks like you have a low, medium moisture problem. I wouldn't throw more feed at it, until I got it growing vigorously. Even then, if it doesn't need it, it doesn't need it. That's just my opinion. It's your plant. Do what you want.

Does it look any better yet?
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
It doesn't appear you have a nute problem. It looks like you have a low, medium moisture problem. I wouldn't throw more feed at it, until I got it growing vigorously. Even then, if it doesn't need it, it doesn't need it. That's just my opinion. It's your plant. Do what you want.

Does it look any better yet?
Na it doesn't look look better. There are other plants in the tent that look happy but they are younger and in different pots. I'll just water daily with the temps up and give it a week or something I suppose. And I'll up nutes like you said when it's growing more vigorously.

Do you think it wants multiple waterings? It has beautiful roots growing out of the bottom of the fabric pot but the weight seems heavy after a day of watering.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
How is that even possible?
Its happened before I got the same ec or slightly less and was told to expect that if I need to raise the ec. Feeding more times per day I guess does give them more nutes I notice as they look less overfed than usual.

I just dont usually fix an issue by upping the frequency but ya I been running these clones a while. I do 1.8ec 5x a day if I do any less ec I get same ec or less.

I know its possible because its how I go yup that for sure needs more ec. Idk just what my experience been I sure aint in problems section for veg anymore with this pheno. Maybe flower but not yet last couple runs. Not for deficiencies anyway.
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Na it doesn't look look better. There are other plants in the tent that look happy but they are younger and in different pots. I'll just water daily with the temps up and give it a week or something I suppose. And I'll up nutes like you said when it's growing more vigorously.

Do you think it wants multiple waterings? It has beautiful roots growing out of the bottom of the fabric pot but the weight seems heavy after a day of watering.
Does it need multiple waterings? As stated, you don't want coco to get dry.

I believe i did two fertigations, per day, when my plants were around the same size. Eventually I was doing 6, but it was a big plant in a small container.
 

Zogs

Well-Known Member
I suggest doing some reading on growing in coco. Coco For cannabis site is a good start. Coco is a great medium to grow in as long as you follow a few simples rules. I think most of them already mentioned. But I'll put it in one spot for you to make it easy.

1. Never let Coco Dry out. As mentioned earlier, coco can become hydrophobic, It's a thing. Water it as much as you can and always make sure you get good run off. Unlike soil, frequent watering in coco provides oxygen to the roots , and that makes your leaves happy and perky. On top of that, getting good run off means you won't have nutrient build up in the soil. You can't over water strait coco/perlite.

2. Stay on top of your PH. Your input PH should be between 5.7 and 5.9. This is for the optimal uptake of Calcium. Don't worry about run off ph, there is no accurate way to check it, and it doesn't matter if your paying attention to your input and watering frequently.

3. Allocate some of your nutrient feeding to allow for calmag. Coco always needs Calcium, go read up on it. ( i saw you were using some coco specific nutes. You may or may not need additional calmag)

4. Never just plain water.

5. Don't take advice from people that don't grow in coco if they don't know the above rules of coco.

Thats pretty much the law of the land when it comes to coco.
 
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Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
I would disagree that you cannot over water coco. Daily watering of coco with waterlogged roots has not worked out well in our grow with results looking fairly similar to here. If cold temps and climate has been addressed and the plant still wont drink properly; evidenced by completely hanging leaves, OP should try to figure out why the roots wont draw water/feed when all other factors are inline.
If you have massive roots you can water your coco daily or even multiple times a day with very good results; flooding the pot means that when the water runs off air will be drawn into the media which is really good. But if there is a too much water in your pot when you water your roots zone can get into an anaerobic state and start rotting or just not working well.
Though i agree that one shouldnt let coco dry out completely, the last bit of water tends to concentrate nutes and burn leaf tips, i dont think that hydrophobic coco is such a big thing to fear if youre hand watering: just start your watering by wetting the top with an amount which wont give you any runoff. Leave it for a little while and then water again slowly until run off and your coco is not hydro phobic anymore. If you wanna make sure you can even take another break before you do the final until runoff watering. This would be a very manageable problem in comparison to anaerobic root problems.



The rules of coco posted above are not wrong, just seem to be tailored for a specific subset of coco grows:
When you have a pot full of roots and doing automatic watering. The rules would work fantastically if your plant was able to handle the waterings but in this case i think OP is likely drowning the plants.
Id add one point to it; make sure to water with extra heavy feed to buffer at transplant since coco tend to attract nutes leave little for the plant. Second watering go back to normal. Also since led plants tend to drink less than HID plants you can usually go up a bit nute strength compared to hid grown coco. If the plant drinks less juice the juice have to be stronger to get the same amount of nutes.

This means you really have to control runoff, primarily for EC is vital; how else are you going to know whats the actual EC of the root zone? If youve been overwatering with little transpiration and growth the coco is likely to drift towards getting hot with nutes.
It doesnt help that led lights and coco can be a little extra hard to get the hang off but really easy once you get the hang off it.

I dont really care to argue with anyone who has a different point of view here, just to provide a another perspective. Anyone who has a working system should continue doing things the way theyre doing it. But OPs coco grow is not working out, even though hes corrected environment and followed advice. Logic states that if the advice didnt work you need to try something different or revise thinking.

Ill trust my plants more than the guys on the internet. Which i guess is somewhat ironic cause i would just be another guy on the internet to the rest of you guys, lol.

Hope OP can sort this out. Anyone who feels offended by me being a bit contrarian to your advice; consider me saying youre partially right rather than completely wrong, im not here to start any flame war over small stuff, only to give another perspective:)
 

steve870

Well-Known Member
growing with coco is like growing with rock wool. you need to treat it as hydro. Everytime you water you should get 25% runoff and measure runoff ec. It shouldn't be much higher than the input ec. If you let it dry out. chances are your ec is the coco is way too high. Flush it once with straight water until runoff and measure ec. flush again and Get it under 1.5-2
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
I would disagree that you cannot over water coco. Daily watering of coco with waterlogged roots has not worked out well in our grow with results looking fairly similar to here. If cold temps and climate has been addressed and the plant still wont drink properly; evidenced by completely hanging leaves, OP should try to figure out why the roots wont draw water/feed when all other factors are inline.
If you have massive roots you can water your coco daily or even multiple times a day with very good results; flooding the pot means that when the water runs off air will be drawn into the media which is really good. But if there is a too much water in your pot when you water your roots zone can get into an anaerobic state and start rotting or just not working well.
Though i agree that one shouldnt let coco dry out completely, the last bit of water tends to concentrate nutes and burn leaf tips, i dont think that hydrophobic coco is such a big thing to fear if youre hand watering: just start your watering by wetting the top with an amount which wont give you any runoff. Leave it for a little while and then water again slowly until run off and your coco is not hydro phobic anymore. If you wanna make sure you can even take another break before you do the final until runoff watering. This would be a very manageable problem in comparison to anaerobic root problems.



The rules of coco posted above are not wrong, just seem to be tailored for a specific subset of coco grows:
When you have a pot full of roots and doing automatic watering. The rules would work fantastically if your plant was able to handle the waterings but in this case i think OP is likely drowning the plants.
Id add one point to it; make sure to water with extra heavy feed to buffer at transplant since coco tend to attract nutes leave little for the plant. Second watering go back to normal. Also since led plants tend to drink less than HID plants you can usually go up a bit nute strength compared to hid grown coco. If the plant drinks less juice the juice have to be stronger to get the same amount of nutes.

This means you really have to control runoff, primarily for EC is vital; how else are you going to know whats the actual EC of the root zone? If youve been overwatering with little transpiration and growth the coco is likely to drift towards getting hot with nutes.
It doesnt help that led lights and coco can be a little extra hard to get the hang off but really easy once you get the hang off it.

I dont really care to argue with anyone who has a different point of view here, just to provide a another perspective. Anyone who has a working system should continue doing things the way theyre doing it. But OPs coco grow is not working out, even though hes corrected environment and followed advice. Logic states that if the advice didnt work you need to try something different or revise thinking.

Ill trust my plants more than the guys on the internet. Which i guess is somewhat ironic cause i would just be another guy on the internet to the rest of you guys, lol.

Hope OP can sort this out. Anyone who feels offended by me being a bit contrarian to your advice; consider me saying youre partially right rather than completely wrong, im not here to start any flame war over small stuff, only to give another perspective:)
Thank you for helping, some good points buddy I also agree I should water more under LED and I will probably pot up more so roots are big enough for pots to ensure I am not over watering.
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
I suggest doing some reading on growing in coco. Coco For cannabis site is a good start. Coco is a great medium to grow in as long as you follow a few simples rules. I think most of them already mentioned. But I'll put it in one spot for you to make it easy.

1. Never let Coco Dry out. As mentioned earlier, coco can become hydrophobic, It's a thing. Water it as much as you can and always make sure you get good run off. Unlike soil, frequent watering in coco provides oxygen to the roots , and that makes your leaves happy and perky. On top of that, getting good run off means you won't have nutrient build up in the soil. You can't over water strait coco/perlite.

2. Stay on top of your PH. Your input PH should be between 5.7 and 5.9. This is for the optimal uptake of Calcium. Don't worry about run off ph, there is no accurate way to check it, and it doesn't matter if your paying attention to your input and watering frequently.

3. Allocate some of your nutrient feeding to allow for calmag. Coco always needs Calcium, go read up on it. ( i saw you were using some coco specific nutes. You may or may not need additional calmag)

4. Never just plain water.

5. Don't take advice from people that don't grow in coco if they don't know the above rules of coco.

Thats pretty much the law of the land when it comes to coco.
Thanks buddy one thing I did was to give a ph of 6.1 as I thought it would help with calcium uptake but I'll go back to normal 5.8 and see if that helps and remember to track ph more.
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
growing with coco is like growing with rock wool. you need to treat it as hydro. Everytime you water you should get 25% runoff and measure runoff ec. It shouldn't be much higher than the input ec. If you let it dry out. chances are your ec is the coco is way too high. Flush it once with straight water until runoff and measure ec. flush again and Get it under 1.5-2
Yeah I will go back to getting run off as I haven't been doing that as much as the canna rep specifically told me not to get run off due to buffering or something. Perhaps I will try both some day and see which the plants like but for now I'll get run off and see if there are improvements. Thank you
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Thank you for helping, some good points buddy I also agree I should water more under LED and I will probably pot up more so roots are big enough for pots to ensure I am not over watering.
Thats really not what i said, quite the opposite. If youre watering that plant until runoff every day youre likely drowning the roots. Poting up is would only exaggerate this problem. What im saying is that to water everyday youd need to have your pot jam full with roots and a fully transpiring plant; so that it almost drinks all that was watered before the next daily watering. Just water the pot when its light, but maybe not completely dry.
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
Thats really not what i said, quite the opposite. If youre watering that plant until runoff every day youre likely drowning the roots. Poting up is would only exaggerate this problem. What im saying is that to water everyday youd need to have your pot jam full with roots and a fully transpiring plant; so that it almost drinks all that was watered before the next daily watering. Just water the pot when its light, but maybe not completely dry.
Sorry I miss typed, I meant "feed more" instead of "water more" as in up the nutrient strength of the waterings becuase if LED lights like you pointed out. Thanks again
 

FatBoyVik

Well-Known Member
How they looking?
Not incredible, about the same as before. Temps have been bang on 25 so no issue with that. Just looks sad all the time and droopy and I was planing to take clones so make room in the tent but I need it to recover before that. Will hold out a few more days and hope it perks up
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Not incredible, about the same as before. Temps have been bang on 25 so no issue with that. Just looks sad all the time and droopy and I was planing to take clones so make room in the tent but I need it to recover before that. Will hold out a few more days and hope it perks up
Post some pics. If she hasn't gotten any worse, then there may still be a chance.
 
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