Week 5 flower gets me everytime.
- Thread starter 10-46
- Start date
10-46
Member
Son of a #@$% ! Ok, so it can be done. Thanks for rubbing it in... Salt ? Check. Wound? Check....
Appreciate it man, I still have some learning and work to do it seems.... Thanks for the pic ! Looks amazing too, those flowers are incredible !
10-46
Member
Thanks, I've been through quite a few of these charts but have found no clear matches, everything looks a like ! I'll look harder, thanks for the chart.
What I've seen at week 5, a few brown spots, no big deal you'd think. Week 6 All hell breaks out, larger brown spots, yellowing.... I've been able to slow it down with cal mag, feedings and watching PH and runoff but still have a ways to go.
It takes some posts and time before you can give likes or use private messages. So stick around and it will all work.
DudeTheDevin
Member
Everybody is always talking about nutes but nutes role in grow success is less than 10%, the key is the environment for transpiration!
They like warm environment, lots of light and usually small amounts of nutes (strain dependant). And keep your roots in good condition.
So what kind of temps you have?
They like warm environment, lots of light and usually small amounts of nutes (strain dependant). And keep your roots in good condition.
So what kind of temps you have?
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Few things to know. Do you feed every water?
when do you start feeding?
Is your water soft or hard?
Do you feed to runoff once in flowering?
Do you feed to run off in veg?
when do you start feeding?
Is your water soft or hard?
Do you feed to runoff once in flowering?
Do you feed to run off in veg?
budman111
Well-Known Member
10-46
Member
My temperatures are a little on the cool side, around 72 lights on and 69 lights off. During flower, temps can increase to 74 or so. I am considering buying a small heater to bump up temperature a bit, but I don't think I'm too far off as is.
Roots ! thanks for mentioning, I seem to keep the roots looking nice and white through veg, but I've noticed they are a light brown after harvest,... I think they are healthy, but will say they dont stay bright white all the way to harvest.
10-46
Member
10-46
Member
Thanks, now I'll see about getting a bag of Epsom Salt...Magnesium issues
Its pretty amazing how difficult deficiencies can be to correct. So far we have one saying its a P or K deficiency, now one for Mag...
Increasing Cal/Mag (fox farm Bush doctor)... has helped to mininize these spots in later grows, so I think you may be right.
10-46
Member
For those helping, I really appreciate it. I am 5 grows in now and feel like I lost my car keys and don't know where to look? Does that make sense?
Here are more details as I understand you need information to help..
Lights Spider Farmer SF1000 at around 16 inches.
Soil, Fox Farm Ocean Forest (stopped using this) Coco Loco (stopped using this) back to Happy Frog....(25 % more perlite added)
3 or 5 gallon smart pot (cloth) depending on the size im after, currently leaning towards using 3 gallons for next grow... (have gone as high as 7 gallons)
Dynagrow Foliage Pro and Bloom.... I use Protekt to PH the feed...
General Dynamics PH drops. (love them)
Cheap PPM pen, gets me in the neighborhood for EC/PPM readings.
RO water PPM's around 20... (I add a little cal mag and protekt, very light on the Cal/Mag... Just enough to make up for such soft water?
2.x 2 x 4 ft grow space
Fan, Carbon filter/exhaust fan
4 inch passive intake, might double this.
Temps 69-74 RH 50-60 Veg 40-50 flower. (I drop RH towards end of flower as the colas get thick)
Here are more details as I understand you need information to help..
Lights Spider Farmer SF1000 at around 16 inches.
Soil, Fox Farm Ocean Forest (stopped using this) Coco Loco (stopped using this) back to Happy Frog....(25 % more perlite added)
3 or 5 gallon smart pot (cloth) depending on the size im after, currently leaning towards using 3 gallons for next grow... (have gone as high as 7 gallons)
Dynagrow Foliage Pro and Bloom.... I use Protekt to PH the feed...
General Dynamics PH drops. (love them)
Cheap PPM pen, gets me in the neighborhood for EC/PPM readings.
RO water PPM's around 20... (I add a little cal mag and protekt, very light on the Cal/Mag... Just enough to make up for such soft water?
2.x 2 x 4 ft grow space
Fan, Carbon filter/exhaust fan
4 inch passive intake, might double this.
Temps 69-74 RH 50-60 Veg 40-50 flower. (I drop RH towards end of flower as the colas get thick)
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
There's nothing inherently wrong with Dyna-Gro, it's economical and convenient, but it could use some help in a few regards. It only has 2.5% Ca, 0.5% Mg and essentially no Sulfur (< 0.1%), much lower than most other formulations. MaxiBloom for example has 5% Ca (2x), 3% Mg (6x), and 4% S (>40x), fairly typical values. I assume that's why they sell and recommend using MagPro as well to compensate.
I'm not suggesting the use of a Dyna-Gro is causing your issues, but it's important to know what your baseline is when deciding to take corrective measures.
Always add Silica first! If using ProTek as a pH down, it should be diluted first else you risk precipitates dropping out of solution.
Your temps are too low, aim for low 80s under LEDs.
Samwiseman420
Well-Known Member
I already said it wasn't nutes. It's salt build up FROM the nutes. Once the roots get clogged from salt the deficiencies start to show..............and show fast.
Use a root cleaner with your feeds. This helps dissolve the salt and allows your roots to breathe. This is why it's happening after 5 weeks. You can make your own H2O2 mix or use something like Athena Cleanse and add that right into your feed schedule.
Maybe this will stimulate some belief. Some bag seed @ 6 weeks. This is what happened after I fixed my salt build up problems
Use a root cleaner with your feeds. This helps dissolve the salt and allows your roots to breathe. This is why it's happening after 5 weeks. You can make your own H2O2 mix or use something like Athena Cleanse and add that right into your feed schedule.
Maybe this will stimulate some belief. Some bag seed @ 6 weeks. This is what happened after I fixed my salt build up problems
10-46
Member
I already said it wasn't nutes. It's salt build up FROM the nutes. Once the roots get clogged from salt the deficiencies start to show..............and show fast.
Use a root cleaner with your feeds. This helps dissolve the salt and allows your roots to breathe. This is why it's happening after 5 weeks. You can make your own H2O2 mix or use something like Athena Cleanse and add that right into your feed schedule.
Maybe this will stimulate some belief. Some bag seed @ 6 weeks. This is what happened after I fixed my salt build up problems
View attachment 5431367
Thanks, I heard you before and am taking notes ! I've always been a little worried to use the cleansing/flush agents, as I've read people have problems with them, but I'll give it a try. Athena is available in my area, I'll see about getting some cleanse.
Salt buildup is mentioned often as a problem, especially during flower, so I'm with you ! I intentionally use a lot of perlite and lighter soils watering to runoff for one reason, to rinse out excess salts. Maybe this isn't enough? Thanks, I'll give the flushing agents a try... I try to stay away from a lot of the snake oil they try to sell, but will try a cleansing agent.
Thanks for the picture, those buds look delicious !
Samwiseman420
Well-Known Member
Don't flush tho. Just add it into your nute regiment every feed. There is nothing else you need to do.
10-46
Member
Thanks, good to know as I hate flushing ! It always takes my plants a while to bounce back after a hard flush, I really hate to do it.
Man I'm hoping this little trick solves my problem, I'll be posting my next grow soon. Northern Lights #10, Master Kush, or White Rhino... I'm still deciding and am limited to low(er) odor strains.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Sounds like they are lacking something! If you aren’t feeding until the soil is depleted you’re chasing up with nutrients.
The way I see it is that bottom leaves yellow/die it’s lacking that nutrient. Tops yellow, burn and die then it’s most likely salt build up. Since you are feeding lower I’m guessing it’s not enough.
RO water with just calmag isn’t enough. You’re missing vital trace minerals. Manganese being a suspect here potentially.
Week 5 flower is when they demand most of the food in their lives!
This is a photoperiod right? It’s the same timeframe with an auto (week 5 total age)
Also lots of run off is just making the problem worse. Stripping minerals and nutrients.
How hot is your starting soil? I prefer light mix so I can up the feed when they need it. Also promotes rooting as your plants look a little small and the soil looks quite rough and full of bark?
The way I see it is that bottom leaves yellow/die it’s lacking that nutrient. Tops yellow, burn and die then it’s most likely salt build up. Since you are feeding lower I’m guessing it’s not enough.
RO water with just calmag isn’t enough. You’re missing vital trace minerals. Manganese being a suspect here potentially.
Week 5 flower is when they demand most of the food in their lives!
This is a photoperiod right? It’s the same timeframe with an auto (week 5 total age)
Also lots of run off is just making the problem worse. Stripping minerals and nutrients.
How hot is your starting soil? I prefer light mix so I can up the feed when they need it. Also promotes rooting as your plants look a little small and the soil looks quite rough and full of bark?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
It looks like a bit of a conundrum and im not the best at spotting nute related stuff but im going to lean the way of salt build up and high calcium blocking out potasium for that yellowing tip look.
But there may be some other unfortunate stuff happening at the same time. It seems like you gone about this by correcting nutes when there is another thing to adress first: enviroment.
74F is too cold imo for a led grow. You want atleast 79 for high intensity led growing or the plant will not be able to transpire or run its metabolism properly to keep up with the light you give. Go research led grows with vpd/vapour pressure deficit. Its the way to get your led plants to drink properly to be able to keep up. Its a sort of "rising sea lifting all ships approach" rather than trying to fix the nute balance. Youll know its transpiring well when all leaves have a huge leaf boner and standing straight. Also look into if your temps are uniform up and down the plant. Some of the pics seem to show top leaves with burnt tips (nute burn) but lowers without: this to me would indicate that your plant isnt transpring uniformly: where its hot the plant drinks more and gets too much nutes while lowers dont get enough to create this problem.
Also, mixing organic nutes in soil with hydro nutes means that your runoff measurements may be off. Ive not seen you mention what ec you get, if your pen is an issue get a good one, blue lab is good.
My general led recommendation is to use good quality coco (we use canna which has workdd better than other brands) and to try to follow vpd but really looking for that desireable plant posture of no saggy leaves. Dial this in, then make a note of ec in and out at every watering, try to see how they trend and adjust.
Coco pots dont have to be big, they can handle huge plants in small containers. Your plant size would make me thing that 2 gallons should be enough. 5 gallons of coco and youll have too much water retention and salt build ups and hard to control runoff. It would waste coco and water and nutes and only create problems.
When up potting always do a extra strong feed the first time to buffer the coco. This as long as the coco is unbuffered and good quality. You can also prebuffer but thats complicated.
Try to implement some of this, especially climate for the next grow, post it with temps/rh, ec in/out and peeps around will help you out. This one i dont really know how to get you out of problems; raising temps now with media likely hot is going to create more transpiration and even more nutr burn. Once someone starts playing around with their nutes too much, adding this and that to fight deficiencies, its very hard to get back on track cause youll have what looks like lock out, deficiencies and ocer feeding all at the same time: it just gets impossible to weed out whats what from online
But next time make sure you add more heat and keep an eye on where you land in the vpd charts when starting flower
But there may be some other unfortunate stuff happening at the same time. It seems like you gone about this by correcting nutes when there is another thing to adress first: enviroment.
74F is too cold imo for a led grow. You want atleast 79 for high intensity led growing or the plant will not be able to transpire or run its metabolism properly to keep up with the light you give. Go research led grows with vpd/vapour pressure deficit. Its the way to get your led plants to drink properly to be able to keep up. Its a sort of "rising sea lifting all ships approach" rather than trying to fix the nute balance. Youll know its transpiring well when all leaves have a huge leaf boner and standing straight. Also look into if your temps are uniform up and down the plant. Some of the pics seem to show top leaves with burnt tips (nute burn) but lowers without: this to me would indicate that your plant isnt transpring uniformly: where its hot the plant drinks more and gets too much nutes while lowers dont get enough to create this problem.
Also, mixing organic nutes in soil with hydro nutes means that your runoff measurements may be off. Ive not seen you mention what ec you get, if your pen is an issue get a good one, blue lab is good.
My general led recommendation is to use good quality coco (we use canna which has workdd better than other brands) and to try to follow vpd but really looking for that desireable plant posture of no saggy leaves. Dial this in, then make a note of ec in and out at every watering, try to see how they trend and adjust.
Coco pots dont have to be big, they can handle huge plants in small containers. Your plant size would make me thing that 2 gallons should be enough. 5 gallons of coco and youll have too much water retention and salt build ups and hard to control runoff. It would waste coco and water and nutes and only create problems.
When up potting always do a extra strong feed the first time to buffer the coco. This as long as the coco is unbuffered and good quality. You can also prebuffer but thats complicated.
Try to implement some of this, especially climate for the next grow, post it with temps/rh, ec in/out and peeps around will help you out. This one i dont really know how to get you out of problems; raising temps now with media likely hot is going to create more transpiration and even more nutr burn. Once someone starts playing around with their nutes too much, adding this and that to fight deficiencies, its very hard to get back on track cause youll have what looks like lock out, deficiencies and ocer feeding all at the same time: it just gets impossible to weed out whats what from online
But next time make sure you add more heat and keep an eye on where you land in the vpd charts when starting flower
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
For one, Id get the temps up to 80f-84f. They wont use nutrients like they should at cooler temps.
Weed is a Calcium/Sulfur/Magnesium hog. I myself like to use Epsom Salts for my source of Magnesium, and Sulfur. And I se it most every watering, in small amounts. I* strive for a 1-1-2 ratio. And also use Kelp, for Micros, as well as Azomite.
Sulfur has also been linked to terpene production.
While I mainly use chemicals-Master Blend
4-18-38
15.5-0-0 Calcium Nitrate, which is almost 20% Calcium
Epsom Salts.
I use it from start to finish, and Slowly, Over Time, increase the feeding amount, as I feed at every watering, I reduce the amount of fertilizer, as per full dose. I may start out with seedlings at 10% of recommended dose. And start from there.
In say an 9 weeks flowering strain, I will increase fertilizer, when I see they are growing, and tolerating, what Im giving them.
Then at around the 23 weeks in a 63 day flowering strain, I will add a small amount of
0-52-34. Monopotassium Phosphate. From week 3-4. While still, Slightly increasing, Base Formula PPM.
Week 65 MPK is stopped, and Epsom Salts, is increased for 2 weeks. Base PPM, is still slightly, going up.
Last 2 weeks, ALL fertilizer is reduced by 25% week 8, and another 25%, on week 9.
Weed is a Calcium/Sulfur/Magnesium hog. I myself like to use Epsom Salts for my source of Magnesium, and Sulfur. And I se it most every watering, in small amounts. I* strive for a 1-1-2 ratio. And also use Kelp, for Micros, as well as Azomite.
Sulfur has also been linked to terpene production.
While I mainly use chemicals-Master Blend
4-18-38
15.5-0-0 Calcium Nitrate, which is almost 20% Calcium
Epsom Salts.
I use it from start to finish, and Slowly, Over Time, increase the feeding amount, as I feed at every watering, I reduce the amount of fertilizer, as per full dose. I may start out with seedlings at 10% of recommended dose. And start from there.
In say an 9 weeks flowering strain, I will increase fertilizer, when I see they are growing, and tolerating, what Im giving them.
Then at around the 23 weeks in a 63 day flowering strain, I will add a small amount of
0-52-34. Monopotassium Phosphate. From week 3-4. While still, Slightly increasing, Base Formula PPM.
Week 65 MPK is stopped, and Epsom Salts, is increased for 2 weeks. Base PPM, is still slightly, going up.
Last 2 weeks, ALL fertilizer is reduced by 25% week 8, and another 25%, on week 9.
Last edited: