Dealing with Politics and Family

How many family members have you quit speaking to family since 2014 due to politics?

  • 0

    Votes: 38 65.5%
  • 1

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • 2

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • 3+

    Votes: 18 31.0%

  • Total voters
    58

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
We've been through this rodeo before, so we can understand much better now. What Vlad tried to do to liberal democracies is now happening to him and we haven't even been trying much either, yet. About 60 to70% are buying it, but not that many have bought into it and living conditions will get worse rapidly inside Russia. News will spread by word of mouth, there are no secret police like there used to be, however Vlad's internal security services are larger than his army. How effect this new force are at mass suppression remains to be seen, most have never killed anybody before.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
TV is big no question, but it is really just one directional. The ability to have a black box response to every insane thing that someone says online that nudges them into truly thinking that they are onto something, with the constant feedback is truly a powerful tool to brainwash people with.

As for the money thing, businesses and people accepting it for goods and services are deciding what it is worth. All those billions of transactions everyday with our dollar as the method of exchange is why it is so stable. And even the trolling of the Fed about them buying/selling existing treasuries (to impact interest rates up or down to keep the economy stable) depends on large businesses that are made up of citizens buying those treasuries in the first place. So at the end of the day I don't agree with 'the real war' being about who gets to control what money is/isn't. Unless you just mean humanity, then sure, humans do conduct war. Shit I guess you could get really down the rabbit hole and think about how other animals/lifeforms too conduct wars, generally over resources or territories, which could be defined as 'money'.

The ants were interesting and they war much like us.

 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Only the super wealthy (and the people they brainwash) want us to go back to having recessions every couple years like it was prior to the Federal Reserve system started to use the tools they have to keep our economy more stable.

Now we just have to wait for the Republicans to screw everything up enough to cause them.

Screen Shot 2022-03-08 at 9.23.18 PM.png
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/19/russia-vpn-internet/Screen Shot 2022-03-19 at 1.08.35 PM.png
Days after Russian tanks rolled into Ukraine, Maria, a 37-year-old mother in western Russia, downloaded a virtual private network, an effort to circumvent the blockade she saw descending across the country’s Internet.

The instinct proved correct. As the Kremlin began reversing years of relative Internet freedom and restricting American social networks and Western news sites, the VPN proved a lifeline, allowing her to chat with a friend in the United States and read updates on Facebook and Instagram, refreshing news about the war every 10 to 20 minutes. Maria thinks the conflict is a “tragedy” and says reading about it leaves her with “anger, sadness and empathy.”

But Maria says her mother believes what she sees on Russian-state run television, where the Russian invasion is portrayed as a righteous military campaign to free Ukraine from Nazis. The different visions have led to bitter arguments, and after one that left her mother in tears, Maria vowed to stop talking to her about the war.

Some Russians — often with social, educational or professional ties to the United States and Western Europe — are trying to pierce Russian President Vladimir Putin’s propaganda bubble, at times leaving them at odds with their own families, friends and co-workers. The war in Ukraine is only deepening the divide that was already present between young, tech-savvy people and an older generation who gets their news mostly from TV and has always been more comfortable with Putin’s vision of the country.

Nearly 85 percent of the country’s population is online, according to data from the World Bank. But only some of those people use American social networks. In 2022, about half of Russian Internet users were on Instagram, and only a fraction were on Facebook and Twitter, according to data from research firm eMarketer.

Many Russians who go online have come to rely on a range of digital tools to outmaneuver Russian censors. They seek out independent news about the war online, splitting them from others whose information comes from government propaganda that floods TV, government-backed websites and large swaths of social networks that remain unrestricted, like Telegram or VK, which are home to many pro-government groups.

This ideological gulf was reflected in interviews with a half-dozen people in Russia, who in most instances spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid violating the country’s fake news law.

“Shock, hatred and depression,” are the words Mikhail Shevelev, a Moscow-based journalist, uses to describe the “very serious” and “drastic” divide that has emerged between people reading independent online sources and those who primarily get their news from TV.

“It’s really difficult for anyone — even Russians who do not live in Russia — to understand the scale of absolutely illogical perceptions of information and outright lies,” he said.

Older Russians make up the primary viewership of Russia’s state television news, which has been flooded with reports of fake U.S. biowarfare labs and Ukrainian “Nazis.”

At the same time, Putin is using increasingly advanced censorship technology. In addition to the recent restrictions on Facebook and Twitter, Russia has blocked the websites of many major Western media outlets, including Britain’s BBC and Germany’s Deutsche Welle. In response to sanctions and public pressure, major tech companies including Apple, Microsoft and Amazon have suspended some sales and services in the country, further contributing to what’s being called a “digital iron curtain.”

Still, Russians seem determined to get around the restrictions. According to the digital intelligence firm Sensor Tower, the top five VPNs in Apple’s App Store and the Google Play store were downloaded 6.4 million times between Feb. 24 and March 13. In the three weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine, the same VPN apps were downloaded only 253,000 times.

Independent Russian media organizations, which have moved their reporters outside of the country, still report some of what’s happening in Ukraine, and there are still some discussions happening on community groups on VK, Russia’s most popular social media network, according to Russians who spoke to The Washington Post. Some Russians are also finding independent news on Telegram and YouTube, which Russia has not yet blocked.

Alexander, a tech worker from Moscow in his 20s, said he’s aware of people who’ve unfriended each other online, writing posts about how they’ll never shake a certain person’s hand again because of their opinion on the war. “My aunt, she stopped talking to a few of her friends whom she knew for ages,” he said.

Bot accounts, widely assumed to be run by government employees, muddy the picture by commenting and posting pro-government messages on VK, said Daria, a Moscow resident in her 20s. “It’s sometimes difficult to distinguish a bot from a genuine government supporter.”
Some Russians who use VPNs are finding the posts and arguments around the war too intense and are pulling back.

Lucy, a 29-year-old designer from the North Caucasus region in Russia, said she has cut back on using Instagram because of angry comments against Russians. She has relatives in Ukraine who’ve had to flee the Russian attack, and said she is half Ukrainian herself. But the heated environment online has pushed her away from engaging on social media.

“At the beginning, I empathized a lot with them. I might not be there, but as I’m a very sensitive person I can feel the pain they’re going through,” she said. As the war progressed, she began getting death threats online, and she unfollowed many of the Ukrainian accounts she had been following. “It’s very hard to be blamed for something you don’t do personally,” Lucy said.

Other young Russians said these online attacks on Russians are pushing some toward a more pro-war position in line with the government. One channel on Telegram was full of memes and posts decrying “Russophobia,” and saying that Western countries were supporting Ukraine out of hatred against Russians.

One pro-government Telegram group, with over 110,000 subscribers, posted a video of what it claimed were volunteers heading to Ukraine to help with the invasion. “We don’t need the whole world with us, dear friends. It is enough if all the Russian peoples are with us,” read the caption under the video.

Putin’s years-long campaign to tighten his grip on Russia’s once-open information ecosystem intensified in November 2019, when the country’s “sovereign Internet” law came into force. That law required Internet providers in Russia to install government-issued black boxes on their premises that would enable the government to control Web traffic by giving the Russian government the power to slow a site from loading or block it entirely.

Some people in Russia are also turning to Tor, an open source system that enables anonymous communications, to visit services. Twitter and Facebook have built versions of their platforms that work with the software. Artem Kozliuk, head of the Russian digital rights group Roskomsvoboda, said that he and others in the country are navigating an increasingly complex mix of VPNs and special browser plug-ins to access basic information on both their laptops and phones. His organization is putting together a guide to help people navigate the different services.

“Now information goes through many proxy systems, through many obstacles before it reaches users,” he said.

Despite the surge in VPN interest, the Kremlin’s crackdown has made many fearful of sharing their political views online. And the two-tier information system continues to rule Russian opinion.

“A huge number of Russians, including me, don’t comment and don’t share their opinion on social media in any way,” Daria said. “People who watch television do believe that there are no civilian casualties and our government only fights against nationalists who oppress Russians living in Ukraine … People who read and watch government-controlled sources aren’t exposed to pictures of destroyed cities and fleeing Ukrainians.”

Ilya Yablokov, a lecturer at the University of Sheffield who studies the Russian Internet, said he believes Russia’s censorship abilities so far have allowed the government to succeed in controlling the narrative inside the country’s borders. But that may not always be the case
“It’s the control of power, it’s the control of narrative, it’s the control of population,” he said. “The question is for how long are they going to be winning?”
 

Offmymeds

Well-Known Member
Our problem seems worse with only 1 year of propaganda from Fox & the GOP. I just read some quotes from Trump supporters at his last rally. "He's honest and real". "Biden hasn't done anything."...

 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member


Putting trump aside.........I can't for the life of me understand why anyone with any sense of morality wants to be a member of a political party that spews nothing but hate, in which every racist, bigot, and asshole in the country belongs to. Maybe that's just me.
It is not just you. It is hard to imagine how people are so able to put their blinders with the stuff being spewed out there.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member



It is not just you. It is hard to imagine how people are so able to put their blinders with the stuff being spewed out there.
Wilful ignorance. My team, good or evil.

They say foul and disgusting things about Harris and Walz but get all butthurt because they called them weird in return.

These two pictures are not the same.

:peace:
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/aug/12/trump-maga-divide-son-father
Screen Shot 2024-08-12 at 10.14.17 PM.png
I didn’t get a call from my son on Father’s Day this year. Our political disagreements have made things hard.

I’m a 59-year-old progressive and a special education teacher, and I’m voting for Kamala Harris in November. Nick* is 21, and he would say that he holds traditional, conservative values – but he’s conflating those values with radical Maga ideas, which correlate the right with patriotism, manhood, intelligence, independence and honesty. I understand where my son’s vulnerabilities came from, and why this rightwing posturing was able to seep into him. I understand it, but I still regret it.

Nick’s mom and I wanted to teach our son that democracy is an active sport. You don’t just sit back and watch. We lived in Houston, in the belly of the petrochemical beast, and I remember going to a demonstration against Halliburton, the Iraq war, and Dick Cheney’s role in the company. Groups brought puppets – it was almost like street theater – and we rolled Nick along in his stroller. That was the community we were plugged into: artists, musicians, teachers, writers. That’s how Nick came up.

Nick was a sweet kid. He was really quiet. He’s on the upper end of the autism spectrum, so he can have difficulty interpreting social cues. All he wanted to do was follow whatever the big kids were doing.

Nick never found a person that he could really link or vibe with. He loves animals, though. We let him get a dog when he was young, and that allowed him to be more than a follower. He was all about serving the dog’s interest. I’ve seen Nick’s heart melt – he can’t tolerate cruelty to animals or people who are vulnerable, which feels ironic, given his politics now.

Some of the older guys at school who Nick was trying to emulate were really into building computers, hacking and the dark web. He got online as a teen, joined some far-right message boards, and I think that’s where he got massaged into these rightwing positions. He started echoing those points, and then he got praise from whatever knuckleheads posted that crap – it became a spiral. Nick was kind of lost, but on the internet, he was able to be a different person, to have more confidence and show off how bright he is.

We had moved to the Bay Area in 2017, after Trump won the election. Nick was 15 or 16 when he said that he liked Trump. I can understand how Trump appealed to a childish sensibility: he’s this clownish figure who does whatever he wants.

I also know that when you come of age, you want to reject your parents’ beliefs. My father was a Reagan Republican who was really old school, values wise. A lot of my political development was a rejection of his values, so I wonder now how much of Nick’s fascination with Maga is a reaction against the way I brought him up.

I’ve never been a macho kind of man. To me, our biggest responsibility as humans is to look after each other. Men have been given places of privilege in society, so when people talk about being a man, to me that means: what do you use your privilege for? I worked at a pirate radio station in Houston, and we helped with emergency efforts during Tropical Storm Allison in 2001. For me, manhood is all about using your energy to make life better for the person next to you.

But I think that Trump appeals to a perceived loss of masculine power: by his logic, because we’re treating LGBTQ+ people like humans, some men feel a loss over that, as their outrageous privilege has diminished somewhat, at least on surface level. Nick was vulnerable to that because he was becoming a man. I think he also naively thought, well, Trump’s a powerful person running for president; he can’t just get up there and spew bullshit.

Nick and I would get into arguments at the dinner table over things like immigration. He would say that there’s this invasion of people coming across the border, but I could usually move him when I got into the emotional, human thing. When I showed him photos of families being separated from their babies because of the Trump administration, he couldn’t tolerate that. Sometimes he might say, “Oh, that’s a doctored photo,” but I could see on his face that the photos had an effect.

It wasn’t enough. Nick posted a meme on some site – I don’t remember which one – of an orangutan riding a bicycle. It had some horribly racist caption relating Black women to monkeys. The other kids at school saw it and were rightly offended. When I spoke to Nick about it, he asked why it was racist. I said: “It’s because you’re depicting a human being as an animal, depriving them of their humanity.” I’m an educator, and my role is not to tell kids what to think, but to show them how to think. I felt this sense of failure. How is it that I have a son who was so incapable of critical thinking that he says he didn’t see anything racist in that meme?

My wife and I divorced in 2020, and Nick lived with me for six months in California after that, but he later went back to live with her in Houston, so I saw and heard less from him. I no longer have the same influence over him. I can’t be there to talk about the human cost of Trump’s policies, which might change his mind.

Nick started hanging out with guys in Houston who shared his beliefs or had even more radical ones. They started talking about what makes a man. They said men have to be strong, so Nick bought a bike and rides it around every day. That’s a healthy habit. But they also say things like “men smoke”, so now he does that too.

They introduced Nick to guns and started taking him to the shooting range. On his 21st birthday, his mother and I sent him money, thinking he’d spend it on a computer or something, but he went out and bought a gun. He didn’t tell either of us, because he knows how we feel about them.

One of his rightwing friends is really wealthy. It’s nice to have a friend who takes you out to dinner, but it also means Nick hears all this stuff about how people who aren’t rich are basically parasites. And he doesn’t want to listen to his mom or me, because I’ve been a teacher my whole life and we always scrimped by, so he thinks we’re lazy, stupid hippies. Why would he listen to anything we say, when his friend’s parents have a Mercedes in the driveway and live in a million-dollar house?

Nick has a girlfriend now, who he met online in one of his rightwing forums. My ex says that she’s a perfectly lovely girl and isn’t some sort of Marjorie Taylor Greene type, just a country Catholic kid. She’s also Latina, so his feelings on immigration have softened after he spent time with her family. He’s got something at stake now.

When Nick and I talk these days, it’s mostly over text. We barely speak on the phone. I hope that I’ll reach an economic status where I can fly to Texas more often. I just want to be physically present with him. If there’s a conversation going on, even if he’s just telling me to fuck off or calling me a libtard, that’s something I can work with. Even if we argue, I can always tell him that I love him.

  • This story uses a pseudonym to protect the subject’s identity
 

Ozumoz66

Well-Known Member
Its ok to have different opinions. In the end, most of it doesn't matter. Life and death.
Less ego, less suffering! In the end we all have nothing.

Some family members have become persona non grata when their level of disrespect exceeds my willingness to tolerate them. They've become an unaffordable emotional investment and boundaries are essential. I still love them, but from afar. A valiant effort is made daily to eliminate negativity.

IRL there is only one rule at our place - don't be an asshole - if you can't be kind, be quiet.
 
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