HID vs LED, electricity usage, who's better?

[Beard-o]

My HID just konked out. Not the bulb. It's either the ballast, or the light. Anyway, I'm moving on.

My wife and I went to a hydroponic store to price out new LEDs. The guy who worked there knew me, and asked why don't I try and figure out what's wrong, and try and fix it.
I told him the unit is old. The ballast was new last year, but was running real hot. Plus it uses beaucoup electricity compared to a LED.

Well he says that not necessarily the case. They tend to use about the same, with the LED possibly using only slightly less. He says "700w is 700w, doesn't matter if it comes from an HID or an LED". However the HID expends much of its energy into heat. While the LED expends much of it energy into light that your plants will thrive on.

So ok, any thoughts?

 

[Kamau42]

My HID just konked out. Not the bulb. It's either the ballast, or the light. Anyway, I'm moving on.

My wife and I went to a hydroponic store to price out new LEDs. The guy who worked there knew me, and asked why don't I try and figure out what's wrong, and try and fix it.
I told him the unit is old. The ballast was new last year, but was running real hot. Plus it uses beaucoup electricity compared to a LED.

Well he says that not necessarily the case. They tend to use about the same, with the LED possibly using only slightly less. He says "700w is 700w, doesn't matter if it comes from an HID or an LED". However the HID expends much of its energy into heat. While the LED expends much of it energy into light that your plants will thrive on.

So ok, any thoughts?

For once a hydro store guy is kinda right. 700 watts is 700 watts but just like he said the LED has more usable light energy.

 

[420Dust]

I run both in my tent.

 

[Fangthane]

I think HID is great if you're in a situation where the added heat can benefit you. Now that's it's getting chilly here, the plants in my veg tent were actually getting droopy and pissy about how the cool down. I put my CMH in there today and they perked right up. I'm gonna stick it out with LED since I think it's obvious they're the future, but I'll keep a HID around just in case.

 

[Hugo Phurst]

I've used fluorescent, HID & LED.
LED is the best of the three for light/watt, waste heat & longevity.
But HID is cheap as shit right now

 

[conor c]

It goes in roundabouts if your in anywhere cold as you will need to provide heat in lights off chances are if you grow with leds if your climates not bad its proly cheaper than hid

 

[HydoDan]

I get the same yield with 400 watts of LED as I did from 800 watts of HPS..
So I basically cut my power consumption in half..

 

[Thundercat]

It really comes down to environment. If you can run an LED without having to add lots of extra heat via heaters then they save money. If you live someplace colder and your grow needs heat, then sticking with HPS might be the better idea. If you have to run AC in the summer, then the HPS might cost more again...

The grow guy was correct, 700 watts is 700 watts. Because of the extra light output with LED, you can use less wattage to produce more light and in turn, save money. Like Hydrodan said, he gets the same yields with half the wattage.

But if you have to add a 4-500 watt(or many are 1000-1500 watt) heater then you aren't just using that 700 watts anymore. Whereas with the hps you might still only use 700w without the heaters, as long as you don't need AC.

I'm sure you get the point. You just have to look at your setup and environment and see what would actually be best.

I've only ever ran HPS in my personal grows. I lived in the north and grew in unfinished basements so in the winters I still had to add heat. In the summer I had my ventilation set up so I never needed AC at my last spot(maxed out at 83). So I never saw the point in spending money to "upgrade" to different lights.

I'm starting the process of setting up a new grow space that I intend to fully climate control. I'm planning on going with LED this time for the light spread and the low profile of the fixtures. I believe it will allow me to push my grow a step further having total control of the environment, and having more light.

 

[Charles U Farley]

I get the same yield with 400 watts of LED as I did from 800 watts of HPS..
So I basically cut my power consumption in half..

I'm running an 8x4 tent and a 5x5 tent with two SF4000s, two SF2000s and 1 SF 2000 Pro for a little more than the same electrical cost I used to have in a 2x5 closet with a thousand watt MH light.

 

[popeyesailorman]

It has been several years since I weighed my harvest but when I did, I came up with consumables $200 a grow for 12 zips. Homemade led cob lights 380w. Jacks 321 recharge and clonex for seedlings $5 for nutes, coco $10, seeds DIY.
I have no idea how much HID would be.

 

[Delps8]

My HID just konked out. Not the bulb. It's either the ballast, or the light. Anyway, I'm moving on.

My wife and I went to a hydroponic store to price out new LEDs. The guy who worked there knew me, and asked why don't I try and figure out what's wrong, and try and fix it.
I told him the unit is old. The ballast was new last year, but was running real hot. Plus it uses beaucoup electricity compared to a LED.

Well he says that not necessarily the case. They tend to use about the same, with the LED possibly using only slightly less. He says "700w is 700w, doesn't matter if it comes from an HID or an LED". However the HID expends much of its energy into heat. While the LED expends much of it energy into light that your plants will thrive on.

So ok, any thoughts?

"700 watts is 700 watts" - bright lad, that fellow (no pun intended).

Grow lighting is not measured in the number of watts being input because the only thing it tells you is how many watts the fixture is drawing from the wall. I realize that, at one time, growers discussed grow lighting using watts but, seeing that there is no consistent relationship between watts from the wall, the amount of light generated by a grow light, or the amount of light hitting a plant, there's no reason to even talk about it.

Measurements about grow lighting center around the color of the light/the frequency of the photons, the amount of light that the fixture can generate (PPF), the amount of light falling on a square meter of the canopy in one second (PPFD expressed in µmols), and the amount of light falling on the canopy in a day (DLI expressed in mols).

HID's Some gas discharge generate light in the IR spectrum. IR is good for keeping things warm but plants cannot use IR for growth. One of the reasons why gas discharge lights are being replaced is that, for a given level of power from the wall, LED's deliver far more photons. Yes, gas discharge generates photons, of course but, by their very design, gas discharge lights generate quite a bit of heat.

What about the argument to use GD because it will keep the tent warm? There may be some merit in that.
Some growers have their grow in an area that's cool all year 'round - basement grows, for example. If you have a grow like that and if you want to keep using gas discharge, it might make economic sense. Other than that, I don't think I could come up with an argument to use gas discharge rather than LED.

 

[Grower1974]

"700 watts is 700 watts" - bright lad, that fellow (no pun intended).

Grow lighting is not measured in the number of watts being input because the only thing it tells you is how many watts the fixture is drawing from the wall. I realize that, at one time, growers discussed grow lighting using watts but, seeing that there is no consistent relationship between watts from the wall, the amount of light generated by a grow light, or the amount of light hitting a plant, there's no reason to even talk about it.

Measurements about grow lighting center around the color of the light/the frequency of the photons, the amount of light that the fixture can generate (PPF), the amount of light falling on a square meter of the canopy in one second (PPFD expressed in µmols), and the amount of light falling on the canopy in a day (DLI expressed in mols).

HID's Some gas discharge generate light in the IR spectrum. IR is good for keeping things warm but plants cannot use IR for growth. One of the reasons why gas discharge lights are being replaced is that, for a given level of power from the wall, LED's deliver far more photons. Yes, gas discharge generates photons, of course but, by their very design, gas discharge lights generate quite a bit of heat.

What about the argument to use GD because it will keep the tent warm? There may be some merit in that.
Some growers have their grow in an area that's cool all year 'round - basement grows, for example. If you have a grow like that and if you want to keep using gas discharge, it might make economic sense. Other than that, I don't think I could come up with an argument to use gas discharge rather than LED.

Yep. The 10+ year old figure of watts per sq/ft doesn’t mean much these days. Obviously with most current LED diodes, you still need at least some power to light up a specific space with photons, but these newer 301B/H diodes and their equivalents are putting out 850-950PPFD with as little as 30W/sq ft.