Temp > VPD or VPD >Temp

THCharlie

Member
I’m sorry if I sound ignorant, but I used to run 4 600 hids hood cooled in a recirculating drip ring hydroponic setup in a spare bedroom early 2000s. Then kids happened. Now it’s legal in my state. I bought a couple tents, and LEDs, and learned about VPD, which wasn’t really a thing back then. I live in a pretty cold climate and don’t particularly like growing outdoors. I can keep temps down through other seasons, so I keep it indoors. Trying to keep electricity costs down and not buy air conditioning for 3 months. I was used to a 10x12x10 room with 3 600s air cooled from inside to outside with separate squirrel cage fan and filter for exhaust in flower, and in the closet ran a… I’m sorry not 600 but 400 mh for flower. These cramped 4x4 tents are hard to keep the temps down in. So what I have are 2 4x4 tents each with a growers choice 680roi led, a 6” ac infinity inline fan for exhaust, 3 oscillating fans, a dehumidifier and an active air 75 pint humidifier in each tent. One with a co2 regulator ran by a trolmaster controller and one with no co2 ran by an ac infinity 69 pro controller. I have a 2x4 with a growers choice 280 in it for mothers and clones( which poses no problems). Any non sarcastic “positive reinforcement” real world solutions would be greatly appreciated. This old dog needs to learn new tricks. ✌
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
seems pretty easy: either buy an A/C and keep temps down or don't grow in the summer.

this summer was my last attempt: i'm going back to being able to suck in cold outside air to keep my temps down and take summers off
Luckily, I have central air, so my growroom temps stay low enough, and I mean like 71‐72°f, that I can control temps pretty easily. At least until early, mid flower, when I turn the lights up. Then I bring the ac temps down a lil more. Tent temps are the biggest hurdle, when tent growing, imo.
 

Midwestgorillagrower

Active Member
Similar situation here; grew in the late 90’s to mid 00’s outdoors and indoors with fluorescents for veg and hps for flowering. All leds now aside from fluorescents for cloning. In many ways it was like relearning everything over again. I prefer LEDs over hps in many ways, especially for the lower heat they add and efficiency, but the best tasting and most potent plant I ever grew was probably under a hps. My memory and nostalgia for that jamacian sativa may be influencing my opinion, so I’m not sure about that statement The wealth of information available online now is great. We did some silly things back then. I try to look at as much valid scientific data as I can and continually change things as new info comes to light. I was a big compost tea proponent- aerating it for a day, etc.up until a couple months ago when i found information that suggested otherwise. Now I mostly top dress the same nutrients and water in.Keeping it simple as i can. Do your plants look healthy? I was concerned that my vpd wasn’t always in the ideal range, yet my harvest turned out fine. I use it as a guide but I can’t always control every aspect due to my setup. Different varieties perform differently at the same vpd in my experience, so I see it as more of a guide/baseline to start with.
 

THCharlie

Member
Similar situation here; grew in the late 90’s to mid 00’s outdoors and indoors with fluorescents for veg and hps for flowering. All leds now aside from fluorescents for cloning. In many ways it was like relearning everything over again. I prefer LEDs over hps in many ways, especially for the lower heat they add and efficiency, but the best tasting and most potent plant I ever grew was probably under a hps. My memory and nostalgia for that jamacian sativa may be influencing my opinion, so I’m not sure about that statement The wealth of information available online now is great. We did some silly things back then. I try to look at as much valid scientific data as I can and continually change things as new info comes to light. I was a big compost tea proponent- aerating it for a day, etc.up until a couple months ago when i found information that suggested otherwise. Now I mostly top dress the same nutrients and water in.Keeping it simple as i can. Do your plants look healthy? I was concerned that my vpd wasn’t always in the ideal range, yet my harvest turned out fine. I use it as a guide but I can’t always control every aspect due to my setup. Different varieties perform differently at the same vpd in my experience, so I see it as more of a guide/baseline to start with.
Front tent is picture….veg looks good but scared when I switch to flower which I could do any day now
 

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Midwestgorillagrower

Active Member
Have you tried to lower the humidity? I would try to either in the grow space or where it draws air into the grow space. In my experience, I’m way more concerned about humidity being too high than high temps.
 

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Personally I run a 3-Ton ductless mini split, during the summer I might notice my bill go up 50 dollars per month. 9 light grow all 645-720w LED fixtures I will pay 50 dollars to not risk sucking bugs/mildews/molds/contaminantes into my grow space, also it's good insurance against goons and helps not draw attention to your house/building not having vents all over it. Then you can spend extra money on IPM products and still pay to run your ventilation systems anyhow..

Lots of grow houses in Michigan are being robbed right now, some of the robberies have made the news with people being shot and facing life in prison. Shit ain't a joke. I keep my setup very invisible.
 

ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
Front tent is picture….veg looks good but scared when I switch to flower which I could do any day now
those numbers will go up once you switch to flower. you will need to find a way to lower your numbers before starting to flower imo, both temps and rh

the laundry room on the top of the first pic would be great numbers to aim for, maybe a little higher since you're running co2.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Was wondering about everyone’s thoughts on Temp versus VPD. Does Temp really matter as long as the VPD is correct? Or should you keep your grow under a certain Temp with correct VPD?
Yes.

VPD is a calculated proxy value for values of RH and leaf surface temperature that will provide an "optimal" growing environment. That raises the question - what does "optimal" mean in this context? My take on it is that that "optimal" means that the plant will function at the the highest level of photosynthesis. Research tells us that increasing photosynthesis ≠ maximum yield or maximum "quality".

I've grown cannabis in the low to mid-80's in seedling and veg but for my upcoming grow, I'm going to try to keep temps in the high 70's. My rationale is that even my little 2' x 4' tent will generate a prodigious amount of cannabis so I'm willing to sacrifice quantity to improve quality. A big driver for looking to make this change was the comments by Mitch Westmoreland in a You Tube video "Does Hemp Need Extra Water and Fertilizer?".

My notes from that video:

"Discusses temperature - Optimum temp to maximize CBD and yield and keep THC below 3%

Plants grown at 73 and 84 degrees. Plants at 84 were taller but colas were smaller in girth.

At 84 little but taller, a bit more vegetative biomass. Yield wasn't all that affected by the increase tempearature. At 84%, cannabanoids were roughly 1/2 of what they were at cooler temperatures.

Suggest that the optimum is between 70 and 80.

Fertilizer
You've probably come across hundreds of companies promising to boost yield. They "lack a theoretical basis" and you'll probably end up just throwing away money and excess nutrients that will end up polluting our nice rivers.

We recomend that you fertilize it just as you would tomatoes. This is a good comparison there's nothing particularly special about hemp.

One of the big claims that you'll see coming out out of the cannabis industry is that high phosphorus will increase yield and will increase cannabanoid content. We've tested this.

We look at a range of phosporus treatments ranging from borderline deficient to excessive. We found no significan difference, especially as we move toward the rates recommended by the cannabis industry. This has implications because phosporhus is a potent pollutant in our environment.

What we're trying to do is get growers to use as little P as we can while still getting a good crop.

Drought stress
In veg - they're very resiliant. Got to the point where they were severely wilted. They recovered so that it seems as if nothing happened. Hard to see which one's were stressed and while ones were well watered.

In flower - yellowing and dropping of leaves and reduction in yield. CBD and THC did not increase.

Temperature - yield increased slightly. CBD and THC plummeted - "cut in half basically". We don't have a good explanation for this right now. We're going to see if we can reproduce this and see if we can come up with an explanation for what's going on." (emphasis mine)
 

Cpappa27

Well-Known Member
Another option is depending on what you think your temps and rh may be in the future you can also buy strains that thrive in those conditions. For instance VPD says at 90 degrees and 40% to 30% humidity you're pretty high in the danger zone but there are landrace strains of cannabis that thrive and prefer climates like that that grow in deserts, that are also used in many genetics today. Theres also landrace cannabis that thrives in humid continental climates where temps will be around 60-65 F with humidity in the 70s and 80s which is also in the red VPD. VPD is cool and all but don't freak out if you're not in range its not that big of a deal.

I found with growing pot you can always make it happen no matter what the situation is, its a rugged plant, it doesnt need to be babied. It seems today many want to squeeze that last quarter ounce out of a plants and will pay big bucks to do and create a shltload more work, or end up killing the damn from god knows what. Im growing to save money and because I enjoy it. I dont want it to become a burden or a hassle with too much micromanaging, because then its not fun anymore. Just keep it simple and more than likely things will go fine, if you just keep it simple. Plus a little stress on the plant is good, cannabis grows better when it gets a little stressed out once in a while. Good luck.


EDIT: If you're growing on a much larger scale for business or profit then yes a quarter ounce out of each plant may be quite profitable. My message is for the every day Joe Grow who wants to grow some of their own buds.
 

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
that's how the sheriff found a grow house not too far from us. they didn't bother trying to scrub the smells coming out
If a sheriff/cop can find it, imagine a violent criminal that smells it. Then 3 things that might happen
They rob you while your home
They rob you while your gone
They for whatever reason decide to not rob you.

I'll take the odds of keeping my grow looking as normal as possible with no vents/ducting/covered windows etc.

Here is a place I used to drive by all the time and this was before legalization in my state. That building screams weed grow. barbed wire fences, huge exhaust hood vents that stank coming out the roof, 200 amp service panel outside.
(pic from google maps, they since changed the building)
1692919695274.png
 
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rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
If a sheriff/cop can find it, imagine a violent criminal that smells it. Then 3 things that might happen
They rob you while your home
They rob you while your gone
They for whatever reason decide to not rob you.

I'll take the odds of keeping my grow looking as normal as possible with no vents/ducting/covered windows etc.
for sure.
these people weren't very smart and they were meth freaks too. they each were working 47 hour shifts. lol. but a pretty nice grow op from the pics.
 

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
for sure.
these people weren't very smart and they were meth freaks too. they each were working 47 hour shifts. lol. but a pretty nice grow op from the pics.
The inside was dirty and I know someone who worked there, said they were spraying Eagle20 and Avid Abamectin without respirators on flowers. The no respirator part is karma but that place was pumping out literal poison weed.
 

Cpappa27

Well-Known Member
If a sheriff/cop can find it, imagine a violent criminal that smells it. Then 3 things that might happen
They rob you while your home
They rob you while your gone
They for whatever reason decide to not rob you.

I'll take the odds of keeping my grow looking as normal as possible with no vents/ducting/covered windows etc.

Here is a place I used to drive by all the time and this was before legalization in my state. That building screams weed grow. barbed wire fences, huge exhaust hood vents that stank coming out the roof, 200 amp service panel outside.
(pic from google maps, they since changed the building)
View attachment 5320846
That building screams raid me.
 
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