Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Do people on here know that many, many Israelis don't like their far right wing Gov?
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Roger Waters victim of Cancel culture???
- Thread starter Django66
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Some individual may have mentioned it in this thread... Trump is more favorable in US than Netanyahu in Israel. Makes the argument Israel is a demonic/illegitimate state, blurring the lines between the conflict with Palestinian and the current political situation, painting ‘the jews’ with a broad brush dipped in fascist label “because look at Netanyahu” such poor reasoning.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
People judge the US by it's politics...That is what everyone around the world hears about every other country on earth...They don't judge a country on the values of individual people, and it would be idiotic to expect anyone to do that, as it's impossible to know what values all those individual people hold. Most of the rest of the world thinks America is a cross between Tombstone and Bad Boys, with some Die Hard thrown in, and a little 1984...
Most people who actually think, are aware that a country's government's actions and attitudes don't reflect the thoughts and ideas of all of it's residents, but we have very little else to react to.
So in answer to your question, yes, many people here realize that, and realize that Israel still does what it does, despite many of it's citizens not agreeing with it. Just like America, and Australia, and every other country on the planet.
Waters is still a fuck bag fascist piece of shit, no matter what Israel does.
Most people who actually think, are aware that a country's government's actions and attitudes don't reflect the thoughts and ideas of all of it's residents, but we have very little else to react to.
So in answer to your question, yes, many people here realize that, and realize that Israel still does what it does, despite many of it's citizens not agreeing with it. Just like America, and Australia, and every other country on the planet.
Waters is still a fuck bag fascist piece of shit, no matter what Israel does.
PopAndSonGrows
Well-Known Member
Roger Waters is a victim of forgetting what made him popular in the first place, and turning into a typical asshole boomer.
Fuck that guy
Fuck that guy
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Most people I know base opinions and judgement on what they (think they) know, their own frame of reference, their own worldview, and most importantly, on facts. They also know two wrongs don’t make a right. What you describe is unfair judgment, the US is much more than just its politics (even though there are forces keen on politicizing everything from face masks to drag queens…). Politics being popular clickbait, especially since Trump, it does influence people’s opinions about the US and especially social media madness amplifies that. Problem is what people think they know isn’t always so, and it’s definitely never the complete picture, which alone is good reason to limit and nuance the judgement and not jump to extreme conclusions. After Trump was elected it weren’t just Americans who pointed out a trillion times Trump never had the support of most Americans and Hillary actually got millions of votes more. Just like proud boys’ actions don’t represent America, Hill Top Youth’s actions don’t represent Israel.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
But yet there is no proof of your claims and even the German court found no basis.
Have you watched the movie yet?
O Israel is a far right country invading and occupying Palestine. Removing children and families and committing genocide.
Nice to see Waters call them out for it.
But hey you feel what Israel tells you to feel. Waters is a fascist and Sir Bob Geldof is antisemitic. If it makes sense to you then fantastic- it is a drug forum after all.
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Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Orthodox Jews protest Israel’s illegal settlement policy in New York
Holding Palestinian flags and carrying anti-Israel banners, the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Organization, known as Neturei Karta, protested outside the...
"the whole existence of the state of Israel is a crime" - Jewish man.
Jews and Palestinians peacefully protesting together against the Israeli fascist government.
Protests held in London against Netanyahu visit
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was met with hundreds of protesters outside 10 Downing Street on Friday when he went for a meeting with his British...
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Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Sinéad O'Connor & The Band; accordion by Garth Hudson, vocals by Rick Danko & Levon Helm. Fascists the lot of em. Put em up against the wall.
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Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i watched the fucking movie in a theater when it came out...Have you ever read a single comment i have made about israel?
You're implying that anyone disagreeing with your view must be on drugs. What's it like to be that egotistical? Especially in view of how misinformed you are, and how badly you misinterpret what little information you actually posses.
HGCC
Well-Known Member
I still think the movie is about wrasslin with your own inner demons...and one of those for Mr waters is being a fascist, also it's fun that people get invested in this argument.
I think the claim he would be opposed to fascism because his dad got killed by nazis rings hollow. Sometimes, eh even oftentimes, some terrible crap that happens when you are a kid ends up molding you to perform that same behavior. Kids that grow up in an abusive home go on to become abusive themselves for instance. While fascism is bubbling back up now, it was much much more prevalent then, and let's not forget that the nazis had quite a large amount of support in both America and England. Many people embrace fascism.
What do you make of him carefully arranging that bullet on the tracks to shoot his fat friend? If the album is to draw so heavily on his personal experience, does that also fit. (Did that even happen? I remember it fairly distinctly, but the internet just talks about putting it on the tracks and the train cars then going by, I always got the impression he was carefully pointing it to try and shoot that other kid when it went off when the train went by).
I think the claim he would be opposed to fascism because his dad got killed by nazis rings hollow. Sometimes, eh even oftentimes, some terrible crap that happens when you are a kid ends up molding you to perform that same behavior. Kids that grow up in an abusive home go on to become abusive themselves for instance. While fascism is bubbling back up now, it was much much more prevalent then, and let's not forget that the nazis had quite a large amount of support in both America and England. Many people embrace fascism.
What do you make of him carefully arranging that bullet on the tracks to shoot his fat friend? If the album is to draw so heavily on his personal experience, does that also fit. (Did that even happen? I remember it fairly distinctly, but the internet just talks about putting it on the tracks and the train cars then going by, I always got the impression he was carefully pointing it to try and shoot that other kid when it went off when the train went by).
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Fascism was big then and as we see with Republicans and Israel its big now. But its not big in countries who fought against and suffered from Nazis as a rule.
People who call it out and pay the price for it are not by definition fascists.
"Waters said the use of fascist imagery was a statement in "opposition to fascism, injustice and bigotry".[154] He pointed out that he had been using Nazi-inspired uniforms in performances since 1980, but they had only recently attracted controversy.[155] Waters felt the criticism was disingenuous and politically motivated,[154] and that he had been attacked at the behest of the "Israeli lobby" in Germany.[156] In an interview with Double Down News, Waters said the accusations of antisemitism were a "vicious lie" and "deeply insulting", and that he was a victim of cancel culture. He said that the Israeli government was attempting to discredit him as they saw him as an "existential threat to their settler-colonialist, racist, apartheid regime".[155]
And lets face it he is right. He even won his court case they brought against him.
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Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Tasmanian has just done this which is awesome. Looks like its been done with some common sense to
www.7hofm.com.au
Tassie's nazi ban leads the nation - 7HOFM
Tasmanians who display a Nazi symbol or perform a Nazi salute face the prospect of three months in jail or...
www.7hofm.com.au
bursto
Well-Known Member
perfect just what any decent nazi state should do impose more laws and round them up snell snellTasmanian has just done this which is awesome. Looks like its been done with some common sense to
Tassie's nazi ban leads the nation - 7HOFM
Tasmanians who display a Nazi symbol or perform a Nazi salute face the prospect of three months in jail or...
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Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Rules suck. I hear ya. Worlds gone rule stupid. Spose they have to due to our rising numbers. Easy to eat the rich when the rule not to do so hasn't been written.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/fascist-countries
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/28/dnbj-j28.html
https://www.eesc.europa.eu/en/news-media/news/fascism-rise-where-does-it-come-and-how-stop-it-common-european-response
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/31/across-europe-the-far-right-is-rising-that-it-seems-normal-is-all-the-more-terrifying
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/26/politics/europe-far-right-what-matters/index.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/02/mussolini-grandchildren-broder-review-italian-history-fascism/
https://www.theinteldrop.org/2023/04/12/latvia-and-finland-more-of-the-same-fascism-spreading-like-wildfire-through-europe/
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/fascist-rally-spain-europe-far-right-2449705
https://markcarrigan.net/2023/06/08/the-return-of-fascism-in-europe/
this look like they learned a fucking thing?
I did not say he was a fascist, i said he had some fascist attitudes, and i stand by that.
He can claim whatever he wants, most assholes can't seem to perceive that they are assholes...but that does not mean they are not.
I on the other hand, embrace my asshole-ness. The truth will set you free, but it may break your wrist getting the cuffs off...
HGCC
Well-Known Member
It's always been big in Europe, England loves it some neo nazis. It's the direction poor angry white people have gone since the 80s, if they opt to go down that road.
Curious what the "political motivation" would be for attacking pink Floyd. Sometimes old people say offensive things without acknowledging that times change and it's offensive now. It's like someone's well meaning grandma saying "coloreds should be treated equally" and not really grasping that's offensive as hell now and then getting in a huff "well I said they should be equal."
*worth noting, I think he should be able to perform whatever. It was wrong for Germany to ban it, I don't think the state (any of them) should have the power to regulate art. It's up to the audience, if they feel it's offensive then don't go...but that is what 99% of artists claiming cancel culture complain about. This is one particular instance where the complaint by the artist has legs. Will keep arguing though as it's way more interesting than other topics.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
A product of his own making, case in point the distasteful comparison involving Anne Frank.
Official EU statement 2023:
“We pledge to speak out forcefully whenever and wherever antisemitism rises. It is unacceptable that today the hatred of Jews is once again on the march. We will not stand idly by when Jews are being attacked or harassed, when false conspiracy theories and stereotypes are spread, when the Holocaust is denied or distorted [and trivialized], or when the State of Israel’s right to exist in peace and security is questioned.”
2022:
“Antisemitic hatred has no place in our world, and it makes no difference if it is disguised as anti-Zionism or whether it comes from far-right or far-left extremists or from Islamist and other religious fundamentalists. We Europeans cannot – and will not – stay indifferent in the face of increasing antisemitism. Not this time. Not ever again.”
Your claim “But [facism] not big in countries who fought against and suffered from Nazis as a rule.” is unfortunately not a rule, not even a truth. Some (Europe) are perhaps overall more anti-anti-semitic (blood of 6mil jews will do that), but that’s also because they have more who masturbate to Water’s performance conflating their anti-semitism with the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Your false claim proves you’re naive about the effects of Roger Water’s actions and words even if you’d see them for what they are.
Yeah they learned a thing alright, anti-semitism, and it runs deep. Pretty fucked up the countries where over 3/4th of the nearly 7million were killed by invading nazis are the two most far-right anti-immigration barely-democratic jew-hating ruled-by-populist EU members, and, the (former) Soviet Union.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Common sense varies a lot across the planet. Banning nazi symbols and nazi salutes now is great but isn’t going to solve your problems. Understanding the Germans' common sense for banning them would help. The real fans can always visit the war museum in Canberra and soak in nazi symbolism. Like I told Australians there, should just display pictures and items of camps and victims instead. Consistent though, with your comments about how Roger’s hammers are not swastikas, as if that’s the real issue, the symbols itself.Tasmanian has just done this which is awesome. Looks like its been done with some common sense to
Tassie's nazi ban leads the nation - 7HOFM
Tasmanians who display a Nazi symbol or perform a Nazi salute face the prospect of three months in jail or...
Teachers, parents, and others kids not slapping the sh*t out of those lil nazis is the real problem. As as matter of speaking of course. Why do they, like neo-nazis feel comfortable enough to express them freely in such toxic manners. Cause they know they're not alone, cause slowly, bit by bit, people, governments, got more tolerant toward intolerance and people fueling hate.
What this thread needs is a link to Roger Waters announcing a performance in Tasmania.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
True.
Germany didn't ban it. He won the court case and the shows went ahead as far as im awhare