Seems a few issues in flower Day 29

Curveman

Member
What do you folks think ? I discovered some RO water had turned down into the 4.5 ph range. and have been noticing a progressive yellowing up of the previously deep verdant green leaf color. these tips, as you can probably see are uniform in their tip browning and drying up. Over the last few days this has been slowly advancing upleaf. Growing in FFOF soil in 3.7 gallon plastic buckets, typically alternating nutes and RO water every two days roughly. Plant is Eleven Roses and demands this watering schedule. Easy to track as I weigh the container. pH's have been back in range for irrigation for 4-6 days. Have stopped CaMg additions for a couple of weeks or so.

Appreciate any observations/ wisdom you may offer. Thanks very much.


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Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
S deficiency. It looks like nitrogen but with a couple of differences.

First the fan leaves yellow at the tips and progresses towards the stem of the leaf.

It’ll tend to yellow around the middle/lower part of the plant before making its way upward.

Also the leaves become very easy to pluck off and do so even when they are still partially green.

Treat with 1tsp of Epsom salts per gallon until deficiency stops. Then continue with 1/2tsp per gallon.

Good luck :)
 

Curveman

Member
Stopping the Calmag reduced nitrogen
Thanks for your observation Herbs & Suds. I would like to make sure I understand what your suggestion means. Are you saying I should entirely stop CaMg and that you think I have an N deficiency ? I'd just like to clarify that. I would appreciate if you don't mind why you suggest stopping the CaMg. I do agree the leaves kinda' present on maybe an N deficiency which I'll address in my post below.

Thanks again for your time and input.
 

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your observation Herbs & Suds. I would like to make sure I understand what your suggestion means. Are you saying I should entirely stop CaMg and that you think I have an N deficiency ? I'd just like to clarify that. I would appreciate if you don't mind why you suggest stopping the CaMg. I do agree the leaves kinda' present on maybe an N deficiency which I'll address in my post below.

Thanks again for your time and input.
They look hungry
And cutting Calmag without increasing nitrogen will do that
Basically you are saying out loud what you did to cause them to go downhill
 

Curveman

Member
S deficiency. It looks like nitrogen but with a couple of differences.

First the fan leaves yellow at the tips and progresses towards the stem of the leaf.

It’ll tend to yellow around the middle/lower part of the plant before making its way upward.

Also the leaves become very easy to pluck off and do so even when they are still partially green.

Treat with 1tsp of Epsom salts per gallon until deficiency stops. Then continue with 1/2tsp per gallon.

Good luck :)
Thank you Nutty sKunK for your observation and input. I looked carefully at references for sulfur deficiency and admit the leaves do somewhat present some aspects of that potential deficiency. I checked the bottom of the leaves and there is no presence of pink or reddish tint which can often accompany low S. The stems and leaf veins of this strain have naturally occurring red/pink/purple coloration. There have been no easily pluckable leaf sets except some very old smaller leaves deep in the canopy.

Since epsom salts primary benefit is to provide Mg, do you think that would be in short supply if I had been feeding more CaMg ?

I would also offer that these coloration changes/symptoms are only demonstrably present on fan leaves that have been around for quite awhile (the oldest leaves on the plant). Newer leaf sets and developing sugar leaves are not presenting these issues.

Again, thanks very much for your suggestions and taking time to offer help ! Looking forward to anything other you might have to offer.
 

Curveman

Member
So, this morning I took Rose out of the tent and in to our sun room. I wanted to use natural light to avoid any spectrum bias from the LED's. The natural coloration of the all the leaves in general do not present as much yellow as under the lights. I plucked two more of the older leaf fans which were presenting as the others I've posted. Reviewing the situation from outside the tent gave me a better feeling about the overall health and severity of what I thought I was seeing and shared here.

I thought it was prudent to check a couple of things in case there might be a need to flush the soil and pick the feeding back up after a "clean sweep". I watered with RO yesterday (14 8oz cups of RO and 2 cups of RO containing a dose of mycorrhizae). From the drain holes in the container a small amount of runoff remained in the bottom of the catchment overflow. This had been sitting there all yesterday afternoon and through the night till I was able to access the tent after the lights came back on (around 1100 this morning). I was able to get enough pf the runoff to do a pH test which I ran twice. Both times the pH reading was a solid 6.5. I then used a pipet to gather as much remaining effluent as possible to run the TDS. I barely was able to get enough to submerse my meter. I strained it through a clean coffee filter to remove the detritus. I tested, cleaning the electrodes between each test with RO water, and the TDS indicated an average of 3050 ppm. Clearly too high, but you have to keep in mind that the samples had been in the catchment for about 24 hrs and that evaporation had been occurring during that period and salt concentrations would have been measurably increased as a result.

So, I'm thinking now I could flush with RO and start over on the nutes or, water a couple of more times (roughly every 36-42 hours; the soil and plant clearly needs this schedule as measured by soil dryness, container weight and relative humidity readings inside the tent) with RO water and monitor the TDS's after each watering. I am amenable to reintroducing the CaMg and increasing N to a responsible level. I've been watering with RO and nutes to around 1300-1400 ppm during the 28 days in flower.

I sue Advanced Nutrients pH perfect base elements of Micro, Grow and Bloom and have been adding Big Bud since the second week in flower. Both Bloom and Grow contain S, .2% and .5% respectively. My nutrient schedule has been every other watering, so about feeding once every four days.

Would appreciate any other observations or suggestions you all may have. Thanks very much.
 

Curveman

Member
They look hungry
And cutting Calmag without increasing nitrogen will do that
Basically you are saying out loud what you did to cause them to go downhill
Yeah, personally I tend to agree. Just concerned a bit with the tip burn and exceeding a responsible TDS. Thanks for confirming your previous post. I'll have to check what TDS the 2 ml per gallon of water the CaMg produces.
 

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
Thank you Nutty sKunK for your observation and input. I looked carefully at references for sulfur deficiency and admit the leaves do somewhat present some aspects of that potential deficiency. I checked the bottom of the leaves and there is no presence of pink or reddish tint which can often accompany low S. The stems and leaf veins of this strain have naturally occurring red/pink/purple coloration. There have been no easily pluckable leaf sets except some very old smaller leaves deep in the canopy.

Since epsom salts primary benefit is to provide Mg, do you think that would be in short supply if I had been feeding more CaMg ?

I would also offer that these coloration changes/symptoms are only demonstrably present on fan leaves that have been around for quite awhile (the oldest leaves on the plant). Newer leaf sets and developing sugar leaves are not presenting these issues.

Again, thanks very much for your suggestions and taking time to offer help ! Looking forward to anything other you might have to offer.
It was noted on other plants (so more thoroughly researched) that S deficiency should technically go from top but it actually started the bottom.

If more N doesn’t fix its most likely S def,

Epsom salts is like 55% sulphur so more S than Mag!

It may be light stress but those wee small leaves are prime to go with S/N deficiency
 

Curveman

Member
thanks herb&suds (that weed&beer... :?:) and Nutty sKunK !!

So no concern from either of you on the higher tds ? Recommending going up on the N might exacerbate that reading, though I know as a result of the evap from the effluent, it is higher than it would be at the time of application just from the nutrient feed.
 

Curveman

Member
They look hungry
And cutting Calmag without increasing nitrogen will do that
Basically you are saying out loud what you did to cause them to go downhill
I'm just posting back up to this thread with some follow-on regarding this thread.

First off you and nutty skunk were both correct about the nutrient deficiencies. A couple of things in combination plus my apparently overly conservative feeding and watering schedule must have contributed to the underfed condition.

I checked with Advanced Nutrients about their recommended dosage schedule. They clarified that their "weekly" nutrient recommendation actually means to include the recommended dosage in every watering. No non-nutrient waterings in between. My fertigation schedule alternated feeding and watering. A day or so later I took my TDS meter to my local garden store and asked them to check the calibration. After much scrutiny by my friend and cannawonk Jeff, he said "It's wrong". We dug out the calculator and determined it was reporting TDS readings around 30% too high. So, I'd been accommodating those readings by curtailing the dosages.

It may sound counterintuitive but I decided one evening to flush the 3.7 gallon container and plant and ran about 7 gallons of pH'd tap water through it, let it all drain until it wouldn't anymore and put it back in the tent. Two and a half days later it was ready to start fertigating again. We're about six days down the road and Rose is inhaling a little over a gallon per day (just a slight amount of run off after 18 cups). I am correcting the TDS readings and feeding the recommended dosage each time. The smell is back on and strong in the tent and the transpo-evap rate has really taken off. New pistils continue to populate the ever-growing buds. I think it's turned around really well. All the trichomes are still crystal clear and only a small percent of the pistils are getting rusty.

I wanted to thank you guys. I didn't want to ghost this thread because I appreciated your interest and responses. I'll post some new pictures later as things develop. I always try to give respect where it's due and try to own my own errors. So thanks again.
 

Curveman

Member
It was noted on other plants (so more thoroughly researched) that S deficiency should technically go from top but it actually started the bottom.

If more N doesn’t fix its most likely S def,

Epsom salts is like 55% sulphur so more S than Mag!

It may be light stress but those wee small leaves are prime to go with S/N deficiency
Nutty SkunK - I bumped this thread to you in case you were interested in reading my most recent posting.

Thanks to you for your interest and posts. In the end they were important as an accurate assessment. You can read my follow up. Thanks again.
 

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
Nutty SkunK - I bumped this thread to you in case you were interested in reading my most recent posting.

Thanks to you for your interest and posts. In the end they were important as an accurate assessment. You can read my follow up. Thanks again.
Glad it worked out for you bud!! When you get comfortable with your growing environment you learn to read the plants instead of using instruments to measure.

Hopefully you get some nice sticky buds :D
 
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