Stuff that doesn't really fit in either "Examples of" thread....

[Fogdog]

No, I think they can be more subtle than that and simply have two FBI agents serve him his summons.

From what I've read, he just tosses them in the trash.

“On or about March 3, 2023, I was informed that a private process server was pulled over by law enforcement officers after serving Bundy at Bundy’s residence,” the filing reads. “The process server was informed that he had been trespassed by Bundy.”

“Mr. Bundy expressed to me that he feels like he is being harassed by all the papers that have been served on him (by mail and personnel service),” Wunder wrote of a recent phone call with Bundy. “Mr. Bundy went on to say that he is at his breaking point. By the tone in his voice I believe he is. In my opinion, if this continues, there is potential for someone to getting hurt. My concern is with the safety of process servers and my deputies. I do not want to risk harm over a civil issue.”

So, I'm not sure what to think about this. He's been served and it has him "at his breaking point"!!!? Doesn't that mean he's supposed to appear or he will be arrested? Apparently not. Something is missing in that story from the Daily Beast. I'm just not motivated to find out. I don't think this will end well for Bundy but he seems to be acting as if the law doesn't apply to him. And the Sherriff seems to think so too.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

From what I've read, he just tosses them in the trash.

“On or about March 3, 2023, I was informed that a private process server was pulled over by law enforcement officers after serving Bundy at Bundy’s residence,” the filing reads. “The process server was informed that he had been trespassed by Bundy.”

“Mr. Bundy expressed to me that he feels like he is being harassed by all the papers that have been served on him (by mail and personnel service),” Wunder wrote of a recent phone call with Bundy. “Mr. Bundy went on to say that he is at his breaking point. By the tone in his voice I believe he is. In my opinion, if this continues, there is potential for someone to getting hurt. My concern is with the safety of process servers and my deputies. I do not want to risk harm over a civil issue.”

So, I'm not sure what to think about this. He's been served and it has him "at his breaking point"!!!? Doesn't that mean he's supposed to appear or he will be arrested? Apparently not. Something is missing in that story from the Daily Beast. I'm just not motivated to find out. I don't think this will end well for Bundy but he seems to be acting as if the law doesn't apply to him. And the Sherriff seems to think so too.

I think an issue like this would attract Garland's attention, it's right up his ally and I don't think he likes scofflaws.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

From what I've read, he just tosses them in the trash.

“On or about March 3, 2023, I was informed that a private process server was pulled over by law enforcement officers after serving Bundy at Bundy’s residence,” the filing reads. “The process server was informed that he had been trespassed by Bundy.”

“Mr. Bundy expressed to me that he feels like he is being harassed by all the papers that have been served on him (by mail and personnel service),” Wunder wrote of a recent phone call with Bundy. “Mr. Bundy went on to say that he is at his breaking point. By the tone in his voice I believe he is. In my opinion, if this continues, there is potential for someone to getting hurt. My concern is with the safety of process servers and my deputies. I do not want to risk harm over a civil issue.”

So, I'm not sure what to think about this. He's been served and it has him "at his breaking point"!!!? Doesn't that mean he's supposed to appear or he will be arrested? Apparently not. Something is missing in that story from the Daily Beast. I'm just not motivated to find out. I don't think this will end well for Bundy but he seems to be acting as if the law doesn't apply to him. And the Sherriff seems to think so too.

So, Mr. Bundy does not want to answer for his conduct before the law and is snowflaking when required. If he does not show up, then the judge issues an arrest warrant and the sheriff enforces it, with the FBI standing over his fucking shoulder. Seems a simple enough problem to solve, if he refuses the FBI removes him from his job, they do it all the time.

 

[Fogdog]

So, Mr. Bundy does not want to answer for his conduct before the law and is snowflaking when required. If he does not show up, then the judge issues an arrest warrant and the sheriff enforces it, with the FBI standing over his fucking shoulder. Seems a simple enough problem to solve, if he refuses the FBI removes him from his job, they do it all the time.

I don't know why that's not happening.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I don't know why that's not happening.

A better political position would make all this much easier for the democrats, right now they are walking a tight rope. After 24 we will see how it shakes out, but a confluence of factors makes 24 a very hard year for the republicans. Unless they can trigger a recession by fucking with the debt ceiling and then they and foxnews can blame it on Biden and they have their acceptable candidate win.

I beleve it has become a war of political extermination, by the republicans for their survival and for the democrats as a constitutional duty. Foxnews has got to go if they win power, the last time Obama complained the media stood up for them, the next time will be different. However, you need 2 more senate seats for anything to happen and need to get rid of brain-dead Diane from CA, she is unfit to serve and is too vain to resign. The graveyards are full of indispensable people. Ron Johnson should be targeted and demands made of the DOJ to investigate his role in J6 along with several other republican senators, before the next election cycle, this shit has gone on too long and it will be two election cycles for criminals then. Ron got elected in the last election cycle after trying to hand fake electors to the VP at the capitol in furtherance of a conspiracy. He went into his 2022 reelection campaign as clean as a cat's asshole with no accountability. The country will remain broken until shit like this is fixed, Trump is not the only one above the law.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Several states had fake electors, but only 2 states are indicting them, why is this so? Wisconsin had fake electors and Ron Johnston tried to deliver them at the capitol on J6 in furtherance of a conspiracy to overturn the legitimate election with fraud. I've seen enough evidence on TV to convict the fucker and what about state charges for the fake electors from his state? Every state has forgery laws at least.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

America Fails the Civilization Test

The average American my age is roughly six times more likely to die in the coming year than his counterpart in Switzerland.

www.theatlantic.com

America Fails the Civilization Test
The average American my age is roughly six times more likely to die in the coming year than his counterpart in Switzerland.
By Derek Thompson

The true test of a civilization may be the answer to a basic question: Can it keep its children alive?

For most of recorded history, the answer everywhere was plainly no. Roughly half of all people—tens of billions of us—died before finishing puberty until about the 1700s, when breakthroughs in medicine and hygiene led to tremendous advances in longevity. In Central Europe, for example, the mortality rate for children fell from roughly 50 percent in 1750 to 0.3 percent in 2020. You will not find more unambiguous evidence of human progress.

How’s the U.S. doing on the civilization test? When graded on a curve against its peer nations, it is failing. The U.S. mortality rate is much higher, at almost every age, than that of most of Europe, Japan, and Australia. That is, compared with the citizens of these nations, American infants are less likely to turn 5, American teenagers are less likely to turn 30, and American 30-somethings are less likely to survive to retirement.
...

 

[CANON_Grow]

every preceding generation didn't face a crippling labor shortage that threatens everything from agriculture to the auto industry.....

https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage

https://www.businessinsider.com/labor-shortage-layoffs-laid-off-quit-job-companies-cling-staff-2021-7?op=1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/15/industries-with-worker-shortages/

And it's not just in America...
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/labour-shortages-felt-all-over-europe/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-20/europe-heads-for-jobs-crunch-that-may-be-deeper-than-the-u-s-s?leadSource=uverify wall

https://themilsource.com/2021/11/15/is-asia-also-facing-a-worker-shortage/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/more-japanese-firms-are-raising-wages-combat-labour-shortage-2022-08-17/


This is more than old guys talking about how lazy kids are today...This is a worldwide problem that doesn't seem to be solving itself

.....understanding that they would never be able to purchase housing(worldwide), or the realization that retirement is unlikely for many, or knowing certain jobs will not lead to a career as they are already transitioning to be obsolete (think long haul trucking is still a career in 15 years?).

From the third and sixth links you posted, it basically states it's not so much a labour shortage, but a shortage of people willing to work for an unlivable wage.

From link #3 - "Although the job market is heating up, there’s not a broad national worker shortage, said Nick Bunker, an economist at the job site Indeed who has long followed federal job-openings data. When you have a shortage in the market, you’re doing your best to get supply by paying more for it, but nothing’s happening,” Bunker said. In the current job market, though, employers in many sectors are raising wages and seeing immediate response from applicants."

From link #6 - "He added that this is happening, “Particularly in low-wage jobs like manufacturing and mining, which have a downstream effect on ‘exported to the west’” finished goods such as electronics, toys and clothing.”

Don't get me wrong, a bit more money isn't going to solve the problem; industries that adapt and realize employees are not just tools that can be easily replaced, will do just fine. It's just going to take a bit of time for the markets to adjust with how the times have changed. We will all need to adapt to the new reality as the era of cheap shit was never sustainable.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

.....understanding that they would never be able to purchase housing(worldwide), or the realization that retirement is unlikely for many, or knowing certain jobs will not lead to a career as they are already transitioning to be obsolete (think long haul trucking is still a career in 15 years?).

From the third and sixth links you posted, it basically states it's not so much a labour shortage, but a shortage of people willing to work for an unlivable wage.

From link #3 - "Although the job market is heating up, there’s not a broad national worker shortage, said Nick Bunker, an economist at the job site Indeed who has long followed federal job-openings data. When you have a shortage in the market, you’re doing your best to get supply by paying more for it, but nothing’s happening,” Bunker said. In the current job market, though, employers in many sectors are raising wages and seeing immediate response from applicants."

From link #6 - "He added that this is happening, “Particularly in low-wage jobs like manufacturing and mining, which have a downstream effect on ‘exported to the west’” finished goods such as electronics, toys and clothing.”

Don't get me wrong, a bit more money isn't going to solve the problem; industries that adapt and realize employees are not just tools that can be easily replaced, will do just fine. It's just going to take a bit of time for the markets to adjust with how the times have changed. We will all need to adapt to the new reality as the era of cheap shit was never sustainable.

One factor is different than preceding generations, birth control pills and female emancipation and it started in the early 60s and really caught on by the 70's. People were having less children all of a sudden. It ended the post war baby boom, and those late boomers are retiring or have since Covid and there are fewer young people in each succeeding decade. So here we are in 2023 with a labor shortage, and it is real enough around here with immigrants filling jobs at the fast food and retail places. We let a lot of people in 24% of people in Canada are foreign born, and many of them are not citizens or want to be apparently, but they work and live here. In America the immigration situation is much worse, republicans don't want any immigration, legal or otherwise because the vast majority of immigrants today are black, brown or Muslim, few Europeans want to come any more and they have their own demographic crises.

 

[CANON_Grow]

One factor is different than preceding generations, birth control pills and female emancipation and it started in the early 60s and really caught on by the 70's. People were having less children all of a sudden. It ended the post war baby boom, and those late boomers are retiring or have since Covid and there are fewer young people in each succeeding decade. So here we are in 2023 with a labor shortage, and it is real enough around here with immigrants filling jobs at the fast food and retail places. We let a lot of people in 24% of people in Canada are foreign born, and many of them are not citizens or want to be apparently, but they work and live here. In America the immigration situation is much worse, republicans don't want any immigration, legal or otherwise because the vast majority of immigrants today are black, brown or Muslim, few Europeans want to come any more and they have their own demographic crises.

This is from memory, so it could be complete BS; drop in birth rates correlated to a society's wealth quite closely and showed quite a dramatic drop the further a society got from being a "farming society". Farms required cheap labour, kids provided that. Kids also provided the insurance to look after parents when they got old, so you didn't want to just rely on one heir, especially with child mortality rates being higher in the past. Looking at where birth rates are the highest today pretty much backs up that theory.

I don't believe it will be an existential crisis that Elon and others do. It's just the beginning of the transition to where our society goes. At some point birth rates will begin to rise again, when evolution requires it.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

This is from memory, so it could be complete BS; drop in birth rates correlated to a society's wealth quite closely and showed quite a dramatic drop the further a society got from being a "farming society". Farms required cheap labour, kids provided that. Kids also provided the insurance to look after parents when they got old, so you didn't want to just rely on one heir, especially with child mortality rates being higher in the past. Looking at where birth rates are the highest today pretty much backs up that theory.

I don't believe it will be an existential crisis that Elon and others do. It's just the beginning of the transition to where our society goes. At some point birth rates will begin to rise again, when evolution requires it.

I think birth control exacerbated that trend, I don't think the falling birth rate is a bad, but a good thing. Capitalism has a problem with it and so do governments when it comes to providing pensions for the elderly who are living longer these days. I could have retired at 55 but stayed on to 57 and the average person is living longer, I have a private corporate pension and the usual CPP and OAS.

A considerable reduction of the global population by 2123 would be desirable and with the spread of female emancipation, birth control and better living conditions, it sure looks like there will be a lot fewer humans in 100 years. We will develop humanoid robots and others that will end up doing most of the work and serving and the current labor shortage is helping to drive this future trend in automation. AI will replace a lot of humans and already has in some fields like approving loans and mortgages. AI might make a pretty good lawyer and could be able to write you up a very good legal court case for $20 online. Don't think the creative arts are immune either, from writers to actors, to musicians and artists competing with machines and eventually bested by them. Managing a corporation is a complex task and AI might be cheaper and much better than a high paid CEO, any MBA could do the job, if AI was running the show.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I don't disagree. I just know that Idaho is more like Mississippi than Washington and Oregon. I don't understand why they have so much support but they do.

Take a look at how different that state is today compared to 30 years ago, when I first moved there. It was still full of highly conservative people but when the Republican controlled legislature tried to enact laws that severely limited a woman's right to choose. The then Democratic governor vetoed it and the electorate punished the Republican Party to the point where the legislature for the first time in years was controlled by Democrats. Now, the state has some of the most restrictive anti choice laws in the country and they are talking about even more restrictive laws.

Ammon Bundy has a lot of support in that state, including, apparently the Sheriff. Probably the governor too. The state always had conservative folk but not like this. So, it's a touch point. Do you suggest the feds charge in and set off the powder keg?

Do you suggest they let him run free? To encourage more defiance of the law?
Yeah, i do, i do suggest they march the fuck in and set off the powderkeg, because something IS going to...Might as well have the storm troopers in place when you go after militia leading criminals.
It may end up being the enema the country needs, to get it's head out of it's ass.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

.....understanding that they would never be able to purchase housing(worldwide), or the realization that retirement is unlikely for many, or knowing certain jobs will not lead to a career as they are already transitioning to be obsolete (think long haul trucking is still a career in 15 years?).

From the third and sixth links you posted, it basically states it's not so much a labour shortage, but a shortage of people willing to work for an unlivable wage.

From link #3 - "Although the job market is heating up, there’s not a broad national worker shortage, said Nick Bunker, an economist at the job site Indeed who has long followed federal job-openings data. When you have a shortage in the market, you’re doing your best to get supply by paying more for it, but nothing’s happening,” Bunker said. In the current job market, though, employers in many sectors are raising wages and seeing immediate response from applicants."

From link #6 - "He added that this is happening, “Particularly in low-wage jobs like manufacturing and mining, which have a downstream effect on ‘exported to the west’” finished goods such as electronics, toys and clothing.”

Don't get me wrong, a bit more money isn't going to solve the problem; industries that adapt and realize employees are not just tools that can be easily replaced, will do just fine. It's just going to take a bit of time for the markets to adjust with how the times have changed. We will all need to adapt to the new reality as the era of cheap shit was never sustainable.

no, i'm not arguing about the cause, people deserve to be paid enough to live on, no one should have to work two jobs unless they want something beyond the basics...and working conditions should be up to par with most other countries, with paid leave for reasonable reasons, and a shorter work week, But no matter what the cause, the shortage is there...And i'll be perfectly honest with you...I'm going to say at least 20 percent, maybe as much as 30% of those who are choosing not to work right now...would still choose not to work if employers offered them everything they were asking for.

 

[HGCC]

This is from memory, so it could be complete BS; drop in birth rates correlated to a society's wealth quite closely and showed quite a dramatic drop the further a society got from being a "farming society". Farms required cheap labour, kids provided that. Kids also provided the insurance to look after parents when they got old, so you didn't want to just rely on one heir, especially with child mortality rates being higher in the past. Looking at where birth rates are the highest today pretty much backs up that theory.

I don't believe it will be an existential crisis that Elon and others do. It's just the beginning of the transition to where our society goes. At some point birth rates will begin to rise again, when evolution requires it.

That's the explanation I have always gone with as well.

 

[CANON_Grow]

no, i'm not arguing about the cause, people deserve to be paid enough to live on, no one should have to work two jobs unless they want something beyond the basics...and working conditions should be up to par with most other countries, with paid leave for reasonable reasons, and a shorter work week, But no matter what the cause, the shortage is there...And i'll be perfectly honest with you...I'm going to say at least 20 percent, maybe as much as 30% of those who are choosing not to work right now...would still choose not to work if employers offered them everything they were asking for.

It won't take that long for people to realize that they won't keep being paid to film their feet or booty hole, or that their podcast isn't likely to be a successful venture. In all seriousness, I think a shortage of employees might become the new normal - people will want to be contracted instead of employed. So yes, a shortage of employees, but not a shortage of people willing to do the work.

History would suggest we are in the fourth turning (whether history will continue to repeat the same cycle is unknown), The Crisis, which feels like a pretty accurate description of the last 15 years. So another five to seven years of this cycle and then it gets better.

 

[cannabineer]

It won't take that long for people to realize that they won't keep being paid to film their feet or booty hole, or that their podcast isn't likely to be a successful venture. In all seriousness, I think a shortage of employees might become the new normal - people will want to be contracted instead of employed. So yes, a shortage of employees, but not a shortage of people willing to do the work.

History would suggest we are in the fourth turning (whether history will continue to repeat the same cycle is unknown), The Crisis, which feels like a pretty accurate description of the last 15 years. So another five to seven years of this cycle and then it gets better.

only if you subscribe to the generational hypothesis, which imo is crap.

 

[CANON_Grow]

only if you subscribe to the generational hypothesis, which imo is crap.

I would agree that the generational hypothesis is nonsensical, but there is an interesting correlation with the cyclical nature societies appear to follow.

 

[cannabineer]

I would agree that the generational hypothesis is nonsensical, but there is an interesting correlation with the cyclical nature societies appear to follow.

I think it is an instance of apophenia writ large: our talent for seeing patterns in noise. Add some confirmation bias and a deemphasis of poorly-fitting facts, imo you end up with trying to turn random chance into something cyclical. It’s an attractive delusion not much different than folks who go to Vegas with a Winning System. There might be a brief period where it seems to work, but run it long enough and invariably the house has all the folks’ money.

 

[CANON_Grow]

I think it is an instance of apophenia writ large: our talent for seeing patterns in noise. Add some confirmation bias and a deemphasis of poorly-fitting facts, imo you end up with trying to turn random chance into something cyclical. It’s an attractive delusion not much different than folks who go to Vegas with a Winning System. There might be a brief period where it seems to work, but run it long enough and invariably the house has all the folks’ money.

You're most likely correct. There are many variables that guide how and where society goes, and any single event could completely alter everything. With that being said, we can observe what has happened in society in the past and use it to make an educated guess on what is likely to occur next. To continue with your analogy, it's counting cards in Vegas.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

It won't take that long for people to realize that they won't keep being paid to film their feet or booty hole, or that their podcast isn't likely to be a successful venture. In all seriousness, I think a shortage of employees might become the new normal - people will want to be contracted instead of employed. So yes, a shortage of employees, but not a shortage of people willing to do the work.

History would suggest we are in the fourth turning (whether history will continue to repeat the same cycle is unknown), The Crisis, which feels like a pretty accurate description of the last 15 years. So another five to seven years of this cycle and then it gets better.

5 to 7 more years for the republicans to try to destroy democracy and install a fascist state? I'm pretty sure we're going to have to do something before then...