LED/T5 Veg, 400W HPS Flower SCOG Cabinet

[loh-pan]

I have an idea for a cabinet to keep it all stealth with regards to smell.
I had an idea about preventing smell while wondering around the duct work section of the hardware store. hopefully some activated carbon used in an aquarium can be made to make a pouch and secure it to the duct booster fan.
all just an idea now.

I have a lot to learn about drip and i would like to try scrog. I think i have a much better understanding of it reading your thread.

Thank you for your help and hopefully i'll be back with some results.

 

[jonnynobody]

Great grow journal bro, very detailed pictures! It seems like you've got your scrog technique down nicely for maximizing that small space. I was just curious about your cloning process...you mentioned that you take cuttings near the end of flowering and you nurse them in the flower cab? I've never cloned before but I was under the impression that a 12/12 light cycle is not ok for vegetative growth and may stress the plant??

In my upcoming project, I planned to keep a separate mother / veg cab but if it's cool to keep clones in the same cab under the same light cycle as the flowering plants, your technique is perfect.

 

[beennoobed]

yea im also interexted in ur cloning method..

 

[cruzer101]

Hey Johnny,

I guess i didnt explain it right. I take 2 cuttings from the bottom of each plant right before they go into flower. Then clone and veg them in the lower shelf while the upper shelf is flowering.

Clones take a week or so to root in the rooter cube then I put it in the rockwool cube. I feed them by hand. I hold the rockwool cube and dip it in the nutrient solution for about 6 to 8 seconds. In about a week I can see the roots coming out of the bottom of the rockwool cube but I leave it alone and the roots are air pruned.

This builds a short but stocky root system in the cube over the next 6 weeks. I top them to keep them short.

The week before transplanting I slowly back off to about half the water I usually feed them and get there new home (hydroton) real moist. I give them a dip and put them in the hydroton. No need to worry about transplant shock because I am moving the whole root system.

Then I start the top feed with the drip system. 1 gph drippers. 30 min a day. The run off goes into the hydroton and the roots follow. Another thing I didnt mention is along with the top feed I have a second line that runs across the top of the hydroton next to the cube and free flows (no dripper) into the hydroton. My thinking here is plants do not need water at the top of the root system especially during flower.

By dripping at one point of the cube the other 3/4 of the cube stays dry. and the water or solution drips into the hydroton.
By adding the second line I am adding moisture right to the roots.

I take two more cuttings from each and start again. Keep the best and toss the rest. I hope that clears things up.
​

 

[jonnynobody]

I like that process...simple perpetual harvest, very nice.

Will have to try that with my tomato garden gotta have my tomatoes!

BTW. were the LED's a purchase you're satisfied w/? (I.e. did they perform as well as you expected).

Also, do you think scrog is more effective from clone rather than seed or does it matter at all?

 

[cruzer101]

Thanks, I try to keep things simple. Doesn't always work.

About the LEDs
I have found them to be extremely effective when the plant is small. Unfortunately when the plant becomes six inches or so tall they just dont have the penetrating capability to reach the lower leaves, add that fact to the dominate power of the 400w and they are a waste of space in the flower area.

Think of it like a flashlight compared to a cars headlight. Side by side and you dont even see the flashlight right?


I removed them from my flower area and I am going to use them on the walls of the veg area.

SCOG
No need for a screen until you want to train the plant.
​

 

[beennoobed]

nicely said n accomplished!
n.e new pics?

 

[cruzer101]

nicely said n accomplished!
n.e new pics?

Pics?

Do I have Pics?

I thought you would never ask!

LOL I can’t stop taking them. I take about 20 every night. Load them on my pc. Change my wallpaper to the latest fav and stop by here.

 

[beennoobed]

so mayb i should ask if you could show us some new pics?
is that better or would u like me to ask in a different way?

 

[cruzer101]

My bad,

I just kinda figured the journal was finished.
No Problem here are a few shots of the next batch.
Here is the first week​

I lost the center one. I accidently over nuted.​

Oh well, I lost one but the others have more bud sites so I guess it made up for it.

Here is next pic.​

I have made some modifications.​

First off I am using window flower boxes and planting a row of plants. I am thinking it will give them more room to root.
I needed a larger veg area so I cut a hole in the lower shelf and extended the drain and put the reservoirs on the bottom of the cabinet. This gives me the whole lower shelf to veg. I mounted the sunblaze t5 HO lamp on the lower shelf. I still haven’t added the LEDs yet, but I get like 8000 lumens from the sunblaze light alone. It has four 24’ high output T-5 bulbs that are 24w to run but put out like 40W each. For bulbs I have four 6500k and two 3000k bulbs so I can mix. Right now there is 3 6500k and one 3000K.​

Then I cut another hole in that shelf and added a second res on the bottom.
Now I have a flower res and a veg res.​

I cut a hole in the top of the cabinet and vented air from outside into the lights ventilation so thats inclosed now. Thats the yellow thing. It vents up and out and at the same time makes it easier to see.​

I removed the LED’s from the flower area and got more space to grow. At 5 weeks into flower I stopped watering the cubes and I am watering the hydroton only.​

The other thing I found out is if I un-hook the screen from the sides of the cabinet at this stage it supports the branches on the outside better. Then I added batwings made out of cardboard and mylar to the sides to get more light to the lower buds.

Here is a shot without the HPS on, you get a better ides of what I mean. The buds are much bigger​

I bought some female white widow seeds and got three to pop so they will going in the mix this next round.
Here is a shot of the babes today.​

As you can see I have put all my veg girls in 4" pots. I put some hydroton under the rockwoll cube and still dip them to water.
Then when its time to move them up it will just slide right out and into the upper container.​

By then I will have removed the flower tray and replaced it with a ebb and flow tray.
I cut this drain hole too big. Maybe one for veggin too.​

So that gets you up to speed on this grow.​

Thanks for stoppin by.​

 

[beennoobed]

journals r never finished, just forgotten about, lookin nice n neat man...

 

[potpimp]

Man what a great grow journal!! +rep to you!

 

[MediMaryUser]

nice setup youve got there

 

[cruzer101]

Well Thanks everyone, I just love doing this and I cant share it with anybody I know because
Im afraid they will get stoned and accidently let it slip, tell sombody and I will get ripped off.

OK here is what I did today.

Time to mount the leds in the veg area but the panel was a bit too large.

Here is what it looked like.

Then with power

So I took everything off the board and cut a couple inches off each side and each end.

Then I used a silicon glue spray and attached the mylar

Then re-alinged the blue lights. The extra blue will help promote females in my next grow. I am starting with 10 seeds.

When I mount the panels I bought and assembled from homegrownlights.com I made some spacers so they were not touching the board.

OK so I mounter it all, heres a pic of the new array.

here a pic with power.

Cool huh?

Now I can use this right next to my sunblaze T5

Heres a pic of my new veg area. Oh yea, I added a DIY ebb and flow system to automate the feeding.
I am going to do the same up top once this batch finishes. I plan on harvesting Christmas if they are ready.

OK I know you want to see the buds. lol I am the same way.

Here is a shot of today before the HPS kicks in. I got a lot of wasted space on the sides and the back.

You can get a better idea of the changes I made up here in this pic. I am using flower boxes instead of single contianers
and at this point I am watering strictly the hydroton. not the rockwool. See my batwings on the sides?

OK One close up of the front bud.

Sorry about the flash but without it you cant see the trichomes.

Now I have an even layer of buds across the surface and a second layer just under those.

This is going to be bigger than the last harvest and I have figured out how to improve on it again.
My new goal is to get 4oz dried and cured out of each grow.

But I will save that for another post.

Thanks again everyone.
Feel free to add comments or ask questions.

 

[420 4 fun]

Hi Cruzer,

Thanks for the very detailed journal, I enjoyed it.
I am not new to growing, but I am checking out LEDs and how well they are and can perform. Seems like they are not at a point of replacing HPS in the flowering stages unless one does what you are doing, SCROG, and the grower uses some very high powered LEDs, like the newer upgraded ufos or the 300 watt panels. 2 of the 300 watters, I'd love to see that with a SCROG, on a 3x6 table.

I was meaning to ask you, you have 6 plants in flower, about how many tops do you have going with your second show in this thread? The 2nd one looks much better in regards to mass, I think you will dbl the last one, just a guess tho. What did you change on this one from the 1st one? You mentioed you would go up the sides and you added batwings.

One thing I would try with a scrog like yours, because you only have one light source, right in the middle, the 400hps, try to form the scrog like a big wide "U" to form an eqaul distance from the bulb. this way the farther away plants will get equal light and be denser buds, you will maximize the yield this way. When bigger shows o a scrog, they will have a 4x8 tray and 2 1000 watters over it.

I am a fan of the stadium/coliseum style.

Thats all I can think of for now, good luck with the harvest!!!

 

[potpimp]

420 I bet two of those 300w LED panels would make a 1000w HPS dim in shame. I would guarantee it. Cruzer those are two bushy little bitches man! I smell hash for Christmas

 

[cruzer101]

Hi 420,

I just counted them and I have 26 tops that are the same size and height.
Then about 1 1/2 inches down I have another 20 or so that are about 3/4 of that size. Then under those there are several small buds. The whole canopy is about eight inches thick.

I think what made the difference was the veg time. On the first grow I vegged for 26 days. On the second grow I had to wait for them to finish so I vegged for 60 days. That gave the plants time to mature. The second thing I did actually was an accident. I over nuted them when I started flowering. Like 1600 ppms for three days and this strain likes about half that. I killed one but the others recovered and produced more bud sites.

About the veg. something I realized after searching for info on bonsai mums. I kept them in the Rockwool cube the whole time. By doing that the roots that popped out the bottom died. This went on for over a month. I think I semi bonsaied (if that’s a word) them. In other words I believe they will only grow to about 3/4 of there normal size because the roots were confined to the cube. This has its good points and bad points. Good obviously is cabinet grows do not have much space and they will not overgrow in the cabinet but the bad is the size of the buds would be 3/4 size too.

On the last grow I had an infestation of spider mites and didn’t realize it until they made a web. That means they were sucking the juice out of my plants for weeks and I didn’t know. I have been keeping an eye on this grow because I still have the dam things. This flowering I have taken preventive measures. I got a pest strip and safers spray. When I see a leaf with a few on it I spray the batch. The next day I spray with distilled water. I repete this about a week later to get the ones that hatch. So dar I sprayed this grow 3 times. This along with the pest strip (not the sticky kind) has kept them in check.

I put this vegging batch into small grow cups with some hydroton under the cubes. Not a lot because I don’t have the height under there but we will see if my theory of the semi bonsai is correct.

In regards to the position of the light. I did that for two reasons. One was I vent straight out the back of the cab and that was a straight shot. The other was exactly what you had mentioned. I have seen stadium grows and I figured I would do a mini one. But instead of raising the outer plants I would just raise the screen up the sides and let them grow up it. I will try that next flower. I have four Apollo and three White widows. The Apollo will go on the sides and the widow in the middle.

Thats the plan anyway. doesn't always happen as planned.

Thanks for the imput.
​

 

[cruzer101]

Hey Pimp,

No kidding, Hash for Christmas. I got a set of bubble bags and made a few grams out of some shake I had. One of these days I will have enough balls to do it with buds.
I took pics, you guys wanna see?

 

[jbrain420]

Hey Pimp,

No kidding, Hash for Christmas. I got a set of bubble bags and made a few grams out of some shake I had. One of these days I will have enough balls to do it with buds.
I took pics, you guys wanna see?

Yes, up those pics. I always wanted to get a set of bags. there just so damn expensive. How much shake did you use and how much did u get out of it. Lets say I have 10oz of leaves and shake. How much do u think I could get out of that?

 

[420 4 fun]

Hi Cruzer,

Next show, when your babies have rooted, make a mite solution in a salad bowl, take the babies one by one and submerse the whole plant into the solution, PROTECT the roots though.

Then go about your normal routine,

Then in a week or 2, before you upsize to the next pot size up, do it again.

Then during the vegging and flowering, spray them weekly with neem oil.
I did it about 2 hours before the lights came on, using a green light bulb to not awaken them. With your scrog, make sure to spray on the underside of the leaves, thats where the eggs are.
If you have solo plants in buckets or pots, you can do this individually to each one, just spray and rotate. Its real easy with 2 ppl

Anyways, this is what I used to do years ago, and it worked very well perhaps there is a better mite killer out there nowadays.


Please keep updates on your show, TY in advance

Hi 420,

I just counted them and I have 26 tops that are the same size and height.
Then about 1 1/2 inches down I have another 20 or so that are about 3/4 of that size. Then under those there are several small buds. The whole canopy is about eight inches thick.

I think what made the difference was the veg time. On the first grow I vegged for 26 days. On the second grow I had to wait for them to finish so I vegged for 60 days. That gave the plants time to mature. The second thing I did actually was an accident. I over nuted them when I started flowering. Like 1600 ppms for three days and this strain likes about half that. I killed one but the others recovered and produced more bud sites.

About the veg. something I realized after searching for info on bonsai mums. I kept them in the Rockwool cube the whole time. By doing that the roots that popped out the bottom died. This went on for over a month. I think I semi bonsaied (if that’s a word) them. In other words I believe they will only grow to about 3/4 of there normal size because the roots were confined to the cube. This has its good points and bad points. Good obviously is cabinet grows do not have much space and they will not overgrow in the cabinet but the bad is the size of the buds would be 3/4 size too.

On the last grow I had an infestation of spider mites and didn’t realize it until they made a web. That means they were sucking the juice out of my plants for weeks and I didn’t know. I have been keeping an eye on this grow because I still have the dam things. This flowering I have taken preventive measures. I got a pest strip and safers spray. When I see a leaf with a few on it I spray the batch. The next day I spray with distilled water. I repete this about a week later to get the ones that hatch. So dar I sprayed this grow 3 times. This along with the pest strip (not the sticky kind) has kept them in check.

I put this vegging batch into small grow cups with some hydroton under the cubes. Not a lot because I don’t have the height under there but we will see if my theory of the semi bonsai is correct.

In regards to the position of the light. I did that for two reasons. One was I vent straight out the back of the cab and that was a straight shot. The other was exactly what you had mentioned. I have seen stadium grows and I figured I would do a mini one. But instead of raising the outer plants I would just raise the screen up the sides and let them grow up it. I will try that next flower. I have four Apollo and three White widows. The Apollo will go on the sides and the widow in the middle.

Thats the plan anyway. doesn't always happen as planned.

Thanks for the imput.
​