Yield help needed from the pros!

[wreign]

Hey growers!

have been trying to improve my yield for 3 cycles and while slowly improving still far from the norm I see everyone talking about ....1g/w..50g/sf...etc. Would really appreciate some feedback from experienced growers here.

Here's my setup:

Veg

- separate veg room with LEDS. Getting about 200PPFD at the canopy
- when they are about 20 inches i transplant into 7gals and veg them in flower room for another month
- no problems in veg
- I now veg until they are 36-40 inches tall (not counting the container) before I flip
- have tried flipping at 20 inches, 24 inches, 30 inches, 36 and 42 inches

Flower

- promix
- 12 1000w DE's
- start flower at 600w ramp up to 1000w by day 10, run 1100w until week 6
- during the first 6 weeks they are getting about 700PPFD at the canopy
- last two weeks I dial down to 750w and they are at 450PPFD
- leaf temp is never above 78F
- i have tried 9, 6, 5, 4 and 3 plans per light
- light space is 4x5
- pretty much veg until all space is filled then flip
- i lollipop, use SOG net and fill the squares
- my last run i had about 12-18 tops per plant
- use pro mix, veg in 1 gals, transplant into 7 gals, veg some more then flip
- no CO2
- water every other day for the first 3 weeks, then once per day for 4-6, then back to every other day, last week about once every 3 days
- nutes are 800-1100 during first half of the flower, then 700 till the end
- i go heavy on potash after week 3 all the way until week 6-7
- generally do not have any nutes, ash, quality issues. smoke is great, taste is awesome no complaints
- full air circulation

My problem:

- Ive run 3 cycles
- 1st cycle .6/lb per light had lost of heat problems
- 2nd cycle .75 per light still some heat problems
- 3rd cycle 1.25 per light solved heat problems
- last cycle was the best one to date, had 4 plants under a bulb and flipped at 38inches on average. each plant filled a 2x2+ was getting just a bit crowded but manageable. got just over 4 oz per plant.

My production cost per lb is $400, not counting labour.

I need to hit 1.5lb per light in order to make this sustainable. Ideally 2lb so I get to that 1g/w.

My ideas:

- i will be adding lights to VEG room so I can grow to desired size all the way there but this will not solve the flower room yield problem
- upgading to LEDs is not an option at this time
- I dont want to run CO2 until i have fully maximized everything else
- one option is to water less but more frequently, maybe downsize pots to 5 gal so they dryback faster and water daily
- or do drip feed twice per day
- introduce foliar spray Ive researched some stuff that can boost yield by 20% or so they claim
- run lights closer to the canopy, cut to 800w and run like 2 feet away, ive measured can boost PPFD to about 800 so 15% more from current levels
- add MH bulb last 10 days
- add oxygen pump and oxygen meter to aim for 45% dyssolved oxygen

I'm sure I missed a few things. I should also add that while this is my 3rd run in this setup I have been growing a while back but took a break for a few years. I have never gotten more than 1lb per 1000w but back than was doing 20-25 2 gals in 4x4 with 2 week veg.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Modern Selections]

You said it... Heat problems.

Get your environment right and make sure your genetics have the capability to yield and everything should fall into place.

 

[Hobbes]

.

Are you training your plants?

Topping 3 times will give you 8 colas and keep the plant much shorter.

.

 

[wreign]

I did solve the heat problem and came up to 4-5 oz per plant. But this is still only a pound per 1000w DE HPS which I feel is very low.

I am topping at least 2-3 times. I avg about 10-16 colas. Problem is they are not baseball bat size colas they seem to max out at the size of can or red bull.

 

[Hobbes]

.

Pics?

.

 

[wreign]

i think this is week 4 from last cycle. I dont have any other pics.

 

[Rurumo]

That's a lot of lights/plants in an unsealed room. Do you have a Co2 monitor in there? I know you don't run Co2, but I wonder what your levels are in that room, you might have something bottlenecking your growth like that. How do you ventilate it?

 

[hotrodharley]

Hey growers!

have been trying to improve my yield for 3 cycles and while slowly improving still far from the norm I see everyone talking about ....1g/w..50g/sf...etc. Would really appreciate some feedback from experienced growers here.

Here's my setup:

Veg

- separate veg room with LEDS. Getting about 200PPFD at the canopy
- when they are about 20 inches i transplant into 7gals and veg them in flower room for another month
- no problems in veg
- I now veg until they are 36-40 inches tall (not counting the container) before I flip
- have tried flipping at 20 inches, 24 inches, 30 inches, 36 and 42 inches

Flower

- promix
- 12 1000w DE's
- start flower at 600w ramp up to 1000w by day 10, run 1100w until week 6
- during the first 6 weeks they are getting about 700PPFD at the canopy
- last two weeks I dial down to 750w and they are at 450PPFD
- leaf temp is never above 78F
- i have tried 9, 6, 5, 4 and 3 plans per light
- light space is 4x5
- pretty much veg until all space is filled then flip
- i lollipop, use SOG net and fill the squares
- my last run i had about 12-18 tops per plant
- use pro mix, veg in 1 gals, transplant into 7 gals, veg some more then flip
- no CO2
- water every other day for the first 3 weeks, then once per day for 4-6, then back to every other day, last week about once every 3 days
- nutes are 800-1100 during first half of the flower, then 700 till the end
- i go heavy on potash after week 3 all the way until week 6-7
- generally do not have any nutes, ash, quality issues. smoke is great, taste is awesome no complaints
- full air circulation

My problem:

- Ive run 3 cycles
- 1st cycle .6/lb per light had lost of heat problems
- 2nd cycle .75 per light still some heat problems
- 3rd cycle 1.25 per light solved heat problems
- last cycle was the best one to date, had 4 plants under a bulb and flipped at 38inches on average. each plant filled a 2x2+ was getting just a bit crowded but manageable. got just over 4 oz per plant.

My production cost per lb is $400, not counting labour.

I need to hit 1.5lb per light in order to make this sustainable. Ideally 2lb so I get to that 1g/w.

My ideas:

- i will be adding lights to VEG room so I can grow to desired size all the way there but this will not solve the flower room yield problem
- upgading to LEDs is not an option at this time
- I dont want to run CO2 until i have fully maximized everything else
- one option is to water less but more frequently, maybe downsize pots to 5 gal so they dryback faster and water daily
- or do drip feed twice per day
- introduce foliar spray Ive researched some stuff that can boost yield by 20% or so they claim
- run lights closer to the canopy, cut to 800w and run like 2 feet away, ive measured can boost PPFD to about 800 so 15% more from current levels
- add MH bulb last 10 days
- add oxygen pump and oxygen meter to aim for 45% dyssolved oxygen

I'm sure I missed a few things. I should also add that while this is my 3rd run in this setup I have been growing a while back but took a break for a few years. I have never gotten more than 1lb per 1000w but back than was doing 20-25 2 gals in 4x4 with 2 week veg.

Thank you in advance!

No need for 5 gallon bags
No foliar sprays in flower. None.
Watering less but more frequently - bad idea.

Suggest smaller bags and shorter veg times. Consider coco if you are able to do it properly.

 

[Modern Selections]

What strain? Genetics make the difference. GSC will not be growing baseball bats etc..

 

[Hobbes]

What strain? Genetics make the difference. GSC will not be growing baseball bats etc..

I agree. I just ran East Coast Sour Diesel and the colas were particularly big, as I've heard about SD.

.

 

[MtRainDog]

Excess heat would be the most obvious problem.

I agree with going a shorter veg time too. If you're topping for 12+ tops, try 4 or 6 instead. They look pretty mature and are likely outgrowing their pots which will inhibit yield. If anything you could gain another cycle per year by reducing veg time by roughly a month

 

[7CardBud]

Your water cycles don't make sense. In soilless mixes you want to water to 20% runoff when the pot is very light yet still slightly damp.
I don't see any benefit of doing stretches of very soggy media, then very dry media. Keep a soild wet-dry cycle the whole grow.
Promix does well with fairly short wet-dry cycles, I personally shoot for about every other day.
I try to plan the proper amount of media for the grow, but if I end up watering every day or every three days, I still don't interrupt the normal wet-dry cycle.

 

[wreign]

Excess heat would be the most obvious problem.

I agree with going a shorter veg time too. If you're topping for 12+ tops, try 4 or 6 instead. They look pretty mature and are likely outgrowing their pots which will inhibit yield. If anything you could gain another cycle per year by reducing veg time by roughly a month

These are 7gal air pots. so probably comparable to 8-9gals. I transplant into them when plants are about 2 feet from 1 gal. They veg for another month. So basically 2 month of veg and 2 months of flower in 7 gal.

I do have a separate veg room just not dialed in yet. Once I do, I will veg in 3 gals until they are 3-4 ft, transplantin 7 gals and flip.

My main issue is yield in the 60 days of flower, I do want to go perpetual but it wont solve my 60 day yield issue though.

 

[wreign]

Your water cycles don't make sense. In soilless mixes you want to water to 20% runoff when the pot is very light yet still slightly damp.
I don't see any benefit of doing stretches of very soggy media, then very dry media. Keep a soild wet-dry cycle the whole grow.
Promix does well with fairly short wet-dry cycles, I personally shoot for about every other day.
I try to plan the proper amount of media for the grow, but if I end up watering every day or every three days, I still don't interrupt the normal wet-dry cycle.

I try to aim for water every other day but once they go into peak flower they dry too fast. Even if I flood them they typically need water the next day, so thats why its daily between week 3 and 6. After that they slow down drinking significantly...even if I water normally they just dont drink that much in the last two weeks plus I do like to crop steer them with dryer medium for better product plus keep the room dryer.

Youre saying I'll be better off say watering daily just adjusting water amount so they are always at the same level moisture vise? This makes sense. And that was oneof my questions about less water but more frequently.

So weeks 1-3 of flower id water less so they dry back within 24 hrs. In weeks 3-6 water daily as i do now. Weeks 6-8 water even less than weeks 1-3 but daily.

 

[wreign]

Excess heat would be the most obvious problem.

I agree with going a shorter veg time too. If you're topping for 12+ tops, try 4 or 6 instead. They look pretty mature and are likely outgrowing their pots which will inhibit yield. If anything you could gain another cycle per year by reducing veg time by roughly a month

My idea was to get 10-20 grams per top. It seems Im getting about 10, avg 4-5oz per plant. If i go down to 4-6 tops they have to be tall colas, will they get enough light? I try not to to more then a foot above the net. Will 4-6 tops give me an oz+ per top? I tried flipping at 24 inches with 4-6 tops. They finished at 36inches. Got 1.5oz per plant in 3gals.

 

[wreign]

That's a lot of lights/plants in an unsealed room. Do you have a Co2 monitor in there? I know you don't run Co2, but I wonder what your levels are in that room, you might have something bottlenecking your growth like that. How do you ventilate it?

Good point. I was just thinking about that today. Theoretically I should not have an issue as i have 2inline 600cfm fans. On with filter on the intake and exaust just outside as im in the bush and no issue with smell. During flower they start running few hours before light on and for about an hour after they go off.

I will get a co2 gage to check though...something is definitely bottlenecking. I thought maybe it the PPFD and my water schedule ...could be the co2.

 

[Treesomewanted77]

These are 7gal air pots. so probably comparable to 8-9gals. I transplant into them when plants are about 2 feet from 1 gal. They veg for another month. So basically 2 month of veg and 2 months of flower in 7 gal.

I do have a separate veg room just not dialed in yet. Once I do, I will veg in 3 gals until they are 3-4 ft, transplantin 7 gals and flip.

My main issue is yield in the 60 days of flower, I do want to go perpetual but it wont solve my 60 day yield issue though.

I see you’re saying the issue is yield in 60 days of flowering. That may be the issue. 60 days may not be enough as most plants bulk up a lot in the last couple weeks. Not saying this is the issue but I haven’t found many that actually finish in 60 days. I do coco so not sure about the pro mix methods. If I had that space I would be doing coco DTW with automatic feedings multiple times per day but that’s just me. Hope you get it figured out you got a nice setup for sure.

 

[Thundercat]

Genetics, environment, and length of flower time are the three major variables here.

What genetics are you running? Are you using clones or seeds? Those two questions will determine a lot. Seeds will always produce random results to some extent. If you want to dial in yields and quality you need to pheno hunt a plant that will specifically grow well in your room and environment.

There aren’t many plants that finish in 8weeks from 12/12. If you harvest a plant that needs 10-12 weeks at 8 weeks there will be significant yield loss and quality loss.

bigger plants don’t always yield more based on the time they take to veg. I’m a big advocate for many small plants in a SOG. I spent 10+ years growing that way pulling a average 2 lbs from my 1k hps on a regular cycle.

45 clones fit into a 4x4 space with only 1-2 weeks veg time in 6inch pots, and with decent genetics you can easily average over 20g dried per plant.

 

[wreign]

I see you’re saying the issue is yield in 60 days of flowering. That may be the issue. 60 days may not be enough as most plants bulk up a lot in the last couple weeks. Not saying this is the issue but I haven’t found many that actually finish in 60 days. I do coco so not sure about the pro mix methods. If I had that space I would be doing coco DTW with automatic feedings multiple times per day but that’s just me. Hope you get it figured out you got a nice setup for sure.

Thank you. The strains I have all finish by day 65 max. I get your point re cutting early as the last few weeks make a huge difference… but for instance i ran sluriccane for 3 cycles and the last one for the shortest 9.5 weeks and yielded the most. (First one was 12 weeks, second 11).

I am thinking my problem is the waterring. I do want to try at least once per day vs every other day. In this kind of a setup do you go by manufacturers ideal moisture readings or trial and error. If the latter whats a good rule of thumb for medium moisture levels. Thanks

 

[wreign]

Genetics, environment, and length of flower time are the three major variables here.

What genetics are you running? Are you using clones or seeds? Those two questions will determine a lot. Seeds will always produce random results to some extent. If you want to dial in yields and quality you need to pheno hunt a plant that will specifically grow well in your room and environment.

There aren’t many plants that finish in 8weeks from 12/12. If you harvest a plant that needs 10-12 weeks at 8 weeks there will be significant yield loss and quality loss.

bigger plants don’t always yield more based on the time they take to veg. I’m a big advocate for many small plants in a SOG. I spent 10+ years growing that way pulling a average 2 lbs from my 1k hps on a regular cycle.

45 clones fit into a 4x4 space with only 1-2 weeks veg time in 6inch pots, and with decent genetics you can easily average over 20g dried per plant.

This would be the easiest solution, my problem is plant count. Currently im at 12 lights but as soon as i make it work i expand to 48. Its impossible to manage that many plants for a single person.