Flushing before harvest is Bro Science!

[farmerfischer]

The placement of a meat thermometer is concerning as well

 

[J. Rocket]

I'd love to hear about your experience with smoking humans. Do you cold smoke, hot smoke? What temps and length of time and do you butcher into primals before breaking down to servings? The best wood, time, temps and process appreciated.

Thanks

whole spit roasting low, slow and even with a kick up to 500* last 1/4 hour. apple wood fire if available.

 

[Greengrouch]

The placement of a meat thermometer is concerning as well

 

[Herb & Suds]

View attachment 5236235

Never again ...

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

View attachment 5236235

I know this one

 

[PadawanWarrior]

View attachment 5236235

 

[Star Dog]

Are you a family guy or American dad fan to?

 

[PJ Diaz]

I think people talking about flushing over the years have really meant to drop Nitrogen towards the end of flowering.

Switch out calcium nitrate for cal chloride or calcium sulphate!

It makes more sense to just feed them a balanced diet start to end is the point. People who do the hardcore load feeding and then give plain water thinking the product will be magically smooth are uneducated/untenured.

I saw a couple of interesting posts on instagram recently which reinforced the idea of dropping N in later flower. John Neulinger (commonly known as the crop steering king of cannabis) has his own flowering nute line, and he suggests subbing cal nit for cal chlor too. Also Athena has a new addition to their line called Fade, which is basically their Core without N.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Are you a family guy or American dad fan to?

I haven't watched those much. I love South Park and Beavis and Butthead though.

But I have taken X,

 

[f.r]

It makes more sense to just feed them a balanced diet start to end is the point. People who do the hardcore load feeding and then give plain water thinking the product will be magically smooth are uneducated/untenured.

I don't disagree, seems nitrates at the end lead to more chlorophyll which isn't that great for smoke in the end.

I saw a couple of interesting posts on instagram recently which reinforced the idea of dropping N in later flower. John Neulinger (commonly known as the crop steering king of cannabis) has his own flowering nute line, and he suggests subbing cal nit for cal chlor too. Also Athena has a new addition to their line called Fade, which is basically their Core without N.

View attachment 5236316

View attachment 5236317

Yeh I have followed josh for a while. My own salt mix is based upon the recipe he released and targetted ppms he had on his instagram before they came out with his fertillizer (albeit with a few changes i personally dropped P and Mg a bit)

Loading up on calcium prior to harvest does not seem to be all that new of an idea in the agricultural world (fruit and veg)

there is an agronomist on insta called slownickel who is a big proponent of getting as much calcium into plants. Also he advocates getting micro nutrient levels right for essential oils like Mn to Fe

 

[lusidghost]

I saw a couple of interesting posts on instagram recently which reinforced the idea of dropping N in later flower. John Neulinger (commonly known as the crop steering king of cannabis) has his own flowering nute line, and he suggests subbing cal nit for cal chlor too. Also Athena has a new addition to their line called Fade, which is basically their Core without N.

View attachment 5236316

View attachment 5236317

I've brought this up a few times on here. NPK RAW has a chart of each nutrient because they sell them individually, and they recommend cutting out most of the nitrogen during flower. When I first started growing I heard Harley Smith said that the plant uses 80% of the nitrogen during vegetation, and it always seemed odd that most nutrient lines don't account for this fact at all.

The chart is in this thread.

I should cut it now?

i stoped to give her P for a week i was using 0-60-0 due to flowering stage

www.rollitup.org

 

[calvin.m16]

I saw a couple of interesting posts on instagram recently which reinforced the idea of dropping N in later flower. John Neulinger (commonly known as the crop steering king of cannabis) has his own flowering nute line, and he suggests subbing cal nit for cal chlor too. Also Athena has a new addition to their line called Fade, which is basically their Core without N.

View attachment 5236316

View attachment 5236317

The problem I have with these people is they always have something to gain when they do these studies, it's always companies that sell nutrients or additives. I do agree with the logic behind it though.

 

[f.r]

Josh has been open about his methodology for a while now, only recently they ahve come out with the fertilizer of there own. He was very open with his own recipes and what ppm of different elements he targets in solution.

It does seem to be taken down though since he started selling his own fertilizer lucky i saved them haha

 

[PJ Diaz]

The problem I have with these people is they always have something to gain when they do these studies, it's always companies that sell nutrients or additives. I do agree with the logic behind it though.

Josh Neulinger was running this sort of line (mixing his own nutes) and posting his results on IG long before he had anything to do with a nute line. He only came up with one because people were asking him to do it.

 

[Kassiopeija]

Loading up on calcium prior to harvest does not seem to be all that new of an idea in the agricultural world (fruit and veg)

It's broscience - "loading up Ca" (lol). How is the plant going to be loaded up?!? And exactly this macronute which the plant can only load into the phloem in minimal amounts, and neither can it retranslocate it. As there is no need - the soil outside is full of Ca.
Preloading other macros (NPK Mg) during veg is what some are practising.

there is an agronomist on insta called slownickel

If that is the same guy as on ICMag you can just scrap what he says (it's evident he just makes stuff up and has zero AG education).

 

[PJ Diaz]

It's broscience - "loading up Ca" (lol). How is the plant going to be loaded up?!? And exactly this macronute which the plant can only load into the phloem in minimal amounts, and neither can it retranslocate it. As there is no need - the soil outside is full of Ca.

Soil outside? Erm, I assumed that this discussion surrounding flushing was related to soil-less media.

 

[f.r]

It's broscience - "loading up Ca" (lol). How is the plant going to be loaded up?!? And exactly this macronute which the plant can only load into the phloem in minimal amounts, and neither can it retranslocate it. As there is no need - the soil outside is full of Ca.
Preloading other macros (NPK Mg) during veg is what some are practising.


If that is the same guy as on ICMag you can just scrap what he says (it's evident he just makes stuff up and has zero AG education).

Loading was just a stoned wrong way of describing it by me, i am far from an expert. Calcium seems to play an important role in plants, it can enhance the uptake of a lot of other minerals within the plant as well.

Pre harvest applications of calcium are not knew to the agricultural industry right?

I don't really browse icmag so i'm not sure. I also don't follow anyone 100%, but i can appreciate some of the articles posted on his instagram as at least being thought provoking. I also understand he is pushing his own product.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

It's broscience - "loading up Ca" (lol). How is the plant going to be loaded up?!? And exactly this macronute which the plant can only load into the phloem in minimal amounts, and neither can it retranslocate it. As there is no need - the soil outside is full of Ca.
Preloading other macros (NPK Mg) during veg is what some are practising.


If that is the same guy as on ICMag you can just scrap what he says (it's evident he just makes stuff up and has zero AG education).

I thought calcium in its derivative form inside the plant autotranslocates where its deficient and use the most making its abundance integral to numerous catalytic process. And is why it's so necessary and easily becomes deficient during blooms first 3 weeks while the plant is doing the most cellular growth

I'll have to relook that up, just did

Macroautophagy, is that not super important for Calcium? Or am I the dunning Kruger here on this thought process?

"Calcium (Ca2+) has been implicated in autophagic signalling pathways encompassing both mTOR and AMPK, as well as in autophagy seemingly not involving these kinases. Numerous studies have shown that cytosolic Ca2+ signals can trigger autophagy."

And more on autophagy

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6303781/#:~:text=Autophagy%20is%20a%20major%20degradation,model%20plants%20to%20crop%20species

.

 

[Kassiopeija]

And is why it's so necessary and easily becomes deficient during blooms first 3 weeks while the plant is doing the most cellular growth

3 weeks in is just after stretch phase done. My response was to a claim of "pre-loading Ca before harvest" so this should be within the last 2 weeks, so week 8-10 for conventional drug-type strains...

I thought calcium in its derivative form inside the plant autotranslocates where its deficient

Absolutely not, at least not within plants where actually quite the opposite is true - Ca has a great "flaw" to miss in some sink (flower or fruit) tissue due to bad phloem-translocation.
One popular example would be "bitter pit" deficiency in apples.
But Cannabis is very efficient in assimilating Ca++ so if it's there the plant will get to use it.
Yes, in hydro there needs to be a steady supply of Ca. Srsly, the differences between water-culture or soil are so deep it's not even the same topic anymore.... in soil the CEC will hold enough Ca for weeks.

Pre harvest applications of calcium are not knew to the agricultural industry right?

Not that I'm aware of, but it could be, maybe for other plants that have difficulties mobilizing it towards the end? But in the case of hemp Bugbee says firmly it is a really good Ca-mobilizer/assimilator. When you just think of the many carboxylic & organic acids its roots release to ensure this...

I'm pretty sure most of you have seen these diagrams, from an great US Ag fert producer:

This "hoodie"-type of upping and downing is typical to some nutes. One could say the "pre-loading" already began in late veg and topped at the phase of greatest plantmass gains. Physiologically this makes sense due to lots of new cells being created.

Would some of you treat Ca rather like S in this regard?

 

[Kassiopeija]

"Calcium (Ca2+) has been implicated in autophagic signalling pathways encompassing both mTOR and AMPK, as well as in autophagy seemingly not involving these kinases. Numerous studies have shown that cytosolic Ca2+ signals can trigger autophagy."

And more on autophagy

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6303781/#:~:text=Autophagy is a major degradation,model plants to crop species

Yes, the Ca-ion serves also as an important, even crucial, messenger or exchange ion and it is because of this relation, or rather antagonisation, of the K-ion which opens up ways for cells to regulate its own internal turgidity etc.
For this, Ca is separated swiftly from K once it enters the plant - resulting in highly uneven apoplastic to symplastic Ca-levels of several orders of magnitude. It's a must, although Na & Si levels influences this a bit. (*)

Here this review explains it better:

edit:
(*) the implications of this paragraph is that plants have almost no ("no good") method to "cannibalize" Ca back - ie. from leaf to bud. Yeah there always a bit free Ca within the various plant fluids but that's nowhere near sufficient to carry it over a certain time if roots get to see just RO.