Jack's 321 or me?

HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
I'm new to Jack's 321 and have some concerns:

I have the sealed grow room dialed in almost perfectly. Humidity, CO2, Ph, PPM's, temps, lights, etc... are ALL well within the recommended range.

The nutrient solution is chilled to 65 degrees and the EC/PPM's are EXACTLY as recommended by Jack's. EC of 2.4 and PPM's of 1200 (500 scale) and 1680 (700) scale. I am using hydroton as media in Air Pots.

These were young Wedding Cake clones that are now in early veg on an 18/6 light cycle. I use well water with an EC of .09 and < 50PPM's. The water is really good!

See the attached tissue sample report where I sent in some leaves a few days ago. I've also attached the report for my well water.

According to this report, my plants should look GREAT! The ONLY thing it could be is overwatering. But I'm skeptical. I water via flood/drain 2x a day (every 12 hours) for 3-minutes. 6 minutes total daily. I've done this for months without issue.


THOUGHTS?




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Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
Also, the water temp can be 65, but if its sitting in the root zone, and the room temp is warmer than the water, you're going to end up with root rot problems.
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
Your PH is a little high according to the water report. How often are you irrigating? You might have some uneven watering in that medium that is creating some hot EC zones, especially if you only have that one feed line per pot.
I use jacks 321 feeding 2x a day at 1.4EC, but I'm about to bump it up to 3-4x a day since im in early flower. I've never gone over 1.8 EC with Jacks fwiw.
 
HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
Tolerance Break said:
2.4 EC is too high, and if those pellets are your whole medium, you're not feeding nearly often enough and the roots are drying out.
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Just to clarify:

I've been feeding plants using this EXACT method (hydroton, Air Pots, top feed, and drain to reservoir) for the last 2 years without problems. The Air Pots drain very well so the roots aren't sitting in water. If the EC is too high, wouldn't the tissue sample report reflect this?
 
HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
Your PH is a little high according to the water report. How often are you irrigating? You might have some uneven watering in that medium that is creating some hot EC zones, especially if you only have that one feed line per pot.
I use jacks 321 feeding 2x a day at 1.4EC, but I'm about to bump it up to 3-4x a day since im in early flower. I've never gone over 1.8 EC with Jacks fwiw.
Click to expand...

My Ph out of the tap is a little high. However, I adjust and keep it 5.8 - 6.0. Most often, after mixing a fresh reservoir, the Ph settles in right around 6.0. When it fluctuates a little, I will adjust. But not too often. It's pretty stable.
 
HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
do you think the EC is too low then? no way those plants should be deficient at 2.4 unless your pH is not accurate
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  • I don't think the EC is too low or too high. I would expect too low or too high to be reflected in the attached lab report. Correct?

  • Looking at the tissue sample lab report, there aren't any deficiencies noted. For the most part, everything is within acceptable ranges.

I have 2 Ph meters and calibrated both of them, to eliminate that as a source of the problem. If I'm reading the lab report correctly, the tissue samples look really good overall. A couple of things aren't in the 'perfect' range but shouldn't cause any issues. Not like this.

That leaves me scratching my head. Below are a couple of pics from my last grow. The ONLY change is from AN to Jack's. I got tired of how dirty the reservoir gets when using AN products. Jack's is so much cleaner!

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HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
Your PH is a little high according to the water report. How often are you irrigating? You might have some uneven watering in that medium that is creating some hot EC zones, especially if you only have that one feed line per pot.
I use jacks 321 feeding 2x a day at 1.4EC, but I'm about to bump it up to 3-4x a day since im in early flower. I've never gone over 1.8 EC with Jacks fwiw.
Click to expand...

What do you recommend for my target EC? These were small clones 3-weeks ago.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
HydroDawg421 said:
  • I don't think the EC is too low or too high. I would expect too low or too high to be reflected in the attached lab report. Correct?

  • Looking at the tissue sample lab report, there aren't any deficiencies noted. For the most part, everything is within acceptable ranges.

I have 2 Ph meters and calibrated both of them, to eliminate that as a source of the problem. If I'm reading the lab report correctly, the tissue samples look really good overall. A couple of things aren't in the 'perfect' range but shouldn't cause any issues. Not like this.

That leaves me scratching my head. Below are a couple of pics from my last grow. The ONLY change is from AN to Jack's. I got tired of how dirty the reservoir gets when using AN products. Jack's is so much cleaner!

View attachment 5217619View attachment 5217622View attachment 5217623
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honestly i didn't even read the tissue report. i just use my eyes to see that they look deficient in maybe N or Mg or both. there is also soem tip burn i saw. my guess is they are nute locked and need a good flush and much lighter nutes until they recover.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
@HydroDawg421

did you ever run your AN mix in a nute calc and see how it compares to 321? i'd be curious to see the NPKCaMg of each recipe and see if there are any huge differences.

that's my 2nd and last guess. lol.
 
HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
Gemtree said:
Could also be light stress or root issue. What’s your runoff ec vs what you put in?
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My 'runoff' gravity drains back to the reservoir. The EC after a fresh nutrient change is 2.4. I check it daily and it doesn't move too much in either direction.
 
HydroDawg421

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
@HydroDawg421

did you ever run your AN mix in a nute calc and see how it compares to 321? i'd be curious to see the NPKCaMg of each recipe and see if there are any huge differences.

that's my 2nd and last guess. lol.
Click to expand...

No. I never had the need to.

Funny thing . . . I'm more precise in measuring the Jack's since it's granules and weighted by grams on a scale. I was fairly accurate with the AN but not nearly as precise. I even went and bought a 'scientific' certified scale to ensure Jack's is dead on the $$.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
HydroDawg421 said:
No. I never had the need to.

Funny thing . . . I'm more precise in measuring the Jack's since it's granules and weighted by grams on a scale. I was fairly accurate with the AN but not nearly as precise. I even went and bought a 'scientific' certified scale to ensure Jack's is dead on the $$.
Click to expand...
not to beat a dead horse but your comment about not rising or dropping much daily. that sounds like nute lockout to me. plants that size should be going down by like at least 0.2 daily
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
I would run some h202 in your rez just to be safe, there's algae on your drain.

Jacks EC chart calls for 2.3 in veg, not 2.4, but thats still waaaay too high imo unless you're running an NFT. Imo, your plants are drinking more water than nutrients and salts are building up in the medium, causing lockout.

jf your environment is sealed and dialed in, but your plants aren't uptaking nutrients, your environment conditions might be more harm than good.

Best of luck
 
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