exotic genetix

radicaldank42

radicaldank42

Well-Known Member
Dividedsky said:
Contanminates from brand new plastic baggies in a box? Are you talking about PBA's from plastics? I don't know.. I never thought of that when popping seeds I mean they just basically crack in the paper towel, dont think it would be a huge concern, i wear vinyl gloves when handling seeds though...I understand not curing bud in low quality plastics...when curing larger amounts I use food safe 5 gal buckets with gamma seals, they work great for curing larger amounts. Otherwise I use large glass jars. Got some apples & bananas in one right now.
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yea theres stuff in that bag during its making air and such was blown in it who knows what was in that air etc. everything that you buy new has contaminates on it. and who knows how cleanthe factorys in china are that made the bags. lol or in the usa.
 
Have2

Have2

Well-Known Member
ketamine_disposal_unit said:
I get my seeds blessed by a Peruvian shaman during their once-a-milenium seedbearers ritual festival, under the solstice moon as mercury is in retrogade, then I sand with fine grit Himalayan whetstone but only at a 32.3° angle and under 45.32% humidity at 24.5°c, but I have to travel to at least 65° latitude to do it. Then I soak the beans in freshly milked yak semen for three and a half days under far red spectrum ultrasonic heatwave. Then I get Snoop Dogg to kiss them and send them to a special seed bank lab in Siberia for their ultra top secret 4th stage germination program.

Super simple. Super effective. Works every time.
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are you experiencing some hermies? :P
 
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Griffon

Well-Known Member
Not only Exotic, Archive and Inhouse also have a super pandemic of Hermies from 200-300 $ pack.., Archive recommend to clone the plant instead of directly put a seeds into flower.
 
radicaldank42

radicaldank42

Well-Known Member
Griffon said:
Not only Exotic, Archive and Inhouse also have a super pandemic of Hermies from 200-300 $ pack.., Archive recommend to clone the plant instead of directly put a seeds into flower.
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What strains? Are you running fem or regs? People say the silver whatever prevents the Hermie gene from being introduced but you're making the plant Hermie to produce it anyways. So I believe you have that chance regardless. Another thing what's the environment like cause Hermie is usually caused by the grower not saying you did anything particularly bad but enough for the plant to be pissed off.
 
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originalphenohunters

Well-Known Member
radicaldank42 said:
What strains? Are you running fem or regs? People say the silver whatever prevents the Hermie gene from being introduced but you're making the plant Hermie to produce it anyways. So I believe you have that chance regardless. Another thing what's the environment like cause Hermie is usually caused by the grower not saying you did anything particularly bad but enough for the plant to be pissed off.
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9 times out of 10 it's the grower's environment and they're too inexperienced to know any better. Typically, it's light leaks they're unaware of. Like door frames, light strips, grow tents always have light leaks, window coverings, green light during night cycle, and the list goes on. All the "clone only" mother plants used in most of these hybrids (sour diesel, bubba kush, purple urkle, cherry pie, etc) all will hermi given light leaks in the grow room. To expect the seeds made from them to not produce the same results, in the same messed up environment, is pure stupidity.
 
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ketamine_disposal_unit

Well-Known Member
originalphenohunters said:
9 times out of 10 it's the grower's environment and they're too inexperienced to know any better. Typically, it's light leaks they're unaware of. Like door frames, light strips, grow tents always have light leaks, window coverings, green light during night cycle, and the list goes on. All the "clone only" mother plants used in most of these hybrids (sour diesel, bubba kush, purple urkle, cherry pie, etc) all will hermi given light leaks in the grow room. To expect the seeds made from them to not produce the same results, in the same messed up environment, is pure stupidity.
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Well I've been growing for 2 years and had no hermie issues on any strains except a pack of exotic beans so who knows
 
Aheadatime

Aheadatime

Well-Known Member
originalphenohunters said:
9 times out of 10 it's the grower's environment and they're too inexperienced to know any better. Typically, it's light leaks they're unaware of. Like door frames, light strips, grow tents always have light leaks, window coverings, green light during night cycle, and the list goes on. All the "clone only" mother plants used in most of these hybrids (sour diesel, bubba kush, purple urkle, cherry pie, etc) all will hermi given light leaks in the grow room. To expect the seeds made from them to not produce the same results, in the same messed up environment, is pure stupidity.
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My room is tight, and I've been growing for near 10 years now. I don't have issues with any old clone or pack of seeds. The reality is some companies produce more herms than others, period. Exotic is fire, but they've definitely been in the herm category for me. Blaming it on the grower is weak. The reality is we're not breeding these plants in a very well researched way, and because of legality issues, we don't know which genomes being passed on are responsible for herm tendencies. More research is needed. But yeah, some genetic pools are more herm prone even without environmental triggers.
 
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originalphenohunters

Well-Known Member
Aheadatime said:
My room is tight, and I've been growing for near 10 years now. I don't have issues with any old clone or pack of seeds. The reality is some companies produce more herms than others, period. Exotic is fire, but they've definitely been in the herm category for me. Blaming it on the grower is weak. The reality is we're not breeding these plants in a very well researched way, and because of legality issues, we don't know which genomes being passed on are responsible for herm tendencies. More research is needed. But yeah, some genetic pools are more herm prone even without environmental triggers.
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Considering 90%+ of the "highest quality" clones of today are all the direct result of accidental (ie hermi) hybridization, it seems the trait is inherent in the vast majority of today's gene pool. To expect any grower without university level breeding facilities to be able to "breed" stable progeny from hermaphroditic parents in just one or two generations of hybridization is literally asking the impossible. Genetic pools are not more "herm prone" randomly. There a specific sets of environmental triggers that cause it. Which are numerous. An indoor environment alone, or a 12/12 light cycle are completely unnatural to a cannabis plant, that is meant be outdoors under the sun. What you mean is that certain varietals are more hermaphroditic prone in YOUR ENVIRONMENT. Those plants that are prone in your environment, could be completely "stable" in 9.9 out of 10 gardens.
 
Aheadatime

Aheadatime

Well-Known Member
originalphenohunters said:
Considering 90%+ of the "highest quality" clones of today are all the direct result of accidental (ie hermi) hybridization, it seems the trait is inherent in the vast majority of today's gene pool.
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This is more true in some gene pools than others. Breeders who work with the latest hype x latest hype are obviously more prone to it in my experience.

To expect any grower without university level breeding facilities to be able to "breed" stable progeny from hermaphroditic parents in just one or two generations of hybridization is literally asking the impossible.
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I agree, and never said this was possible.

Genetic pools are not more "herm prone" randomly.
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Correct. It isn't random. Figuring out which genomes are responsible will take alot of time, and in the meantime, some companies/genetic lines are more prone.

There a specific sets of environmental triggers that cause it. Which are numerous. An indoor environment alone, or a 12/12 light cycle are completely unnatural to a cannabis plant, that is meant be outdoors under the sun.
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Correct, but wildly variable. Some individuals herm regardless of what we deem to be a stable environment. Others are stable until extreme stress is introduced, ie 95 degree weather or a few minutes of light introduced in the dark period. This variability is what consumers often complain about. It is not disputed that the more reckless the environment, the higher chance of herm incidence. But..

What you mean is that certain varietals are more hermaphroditic prone in YOUR ENVIRONMENT. Those plants that are prone in your environment, could be completely "stable" in 9.9 out of 10 gardens.
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This is largely true, assuming the "YOUR ENVIRONMENT" part contains drastic stress factors. But this is obvious. What it seems you're disputing is that certain individuals in a gene pool will express hermaphroditic traits regardless of stress factors. This is just basically genomic biology. Like freckles, or hair color, or having large spaces between one's teeth. Even 'high profile' growers like Capulator, Jungle Boys, Mitten Master, etc., will have to cull herms in an environment that is borderline laboratory-esque stable. My room's environment is automated, feedings are automated, sealed tight as a glove, and without any stress facors outside of manual techniques (defoliation, topping, etc). 95+% of phenos I pop from seed are without herm.

But I'm telling you from first hand experience running 5 harvests a year consistently with 10 years under my belt non-stop pheno hunting, I've encountered plants that threw a pollen sac at every node from the top down at week 3 of flower, while her sisters and neighbors were growing normally. This is not 'grower error'. This was built into the plant's genetics. I've had plants that threw a random banana at week 8. I've had plants where the original mother would produce the odd sac, but her clones didn't express this trait. I've seen plants throw pollen, but it was sterile and didn't impregnate any neighbors. It's genetic variability, not grower error. I agree with you that many closet/tent growers are making errors unbeknownst to them, like light leaks, poor feeding schedules, over-training, poor environmental controls. But to say then that this is the only explanation in all instances of herm expression is foolish. Of course it also happens in more controlled, stable, professional environments that an individual will throw pollen without any unusual or extreme instances of stress. This is how genetics work. Especially when the breeding is being done as fast-paced and unscientifically as cannabis.
 
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originalphenohunters

Well-Known Member
Aheadatime said:
This is more true in some gene pools than others. Breeders who work with the latest hype x latest hype are obviously more prone to it in my experience.



I agree, and never said this was possible.



Correct. It isn't random. Figuring out which genomes are responsible will take alot of time, and in the meantime, some companies/genetic lines are more prone.



Correct, but wildly variable. Some individuals herm regardless of what we deem to be a stable environment. Others are stable until extreme stress is introduced, ie 95 degree weather or a few minutes of light introduced in the dark period. This variability is what consumers often complain about. It is not disputed that the more reckless the environment, the higher chance of herm incidence. But..



This is largely true, assuming the "YOUR ENVIRONMENT" part contains drastic stress factors. But this is obvious. What it seems you're disputing is that certain individuals in a gene pool will express hermaphroditic traits regardless of stress factors. This is just basically genomic biology. Like freckles, or hair color, or having large spaces between one's teeth. Even 'high profile' growers like Capulator, Jungle Boys, Mitten Master, etc., will have to cull herms in an environment that is borderline laboratory-esque stable. My room's environment is automated, feedings are automated, sealed tight as a glove, and without any stress facors outside of manual techniques (defoliation, topping, etc). 95+% of phenos I pop from seed are without herm.

But I'm telling you from first hand experience running 5 harvests a year consistently with 10 years under my belt non-stop pheno hunting, I've encountered plants that threw a pollen sac at every node from the top down at week 3 of flower, while her sisters and neighbors were growing normally. This is not 'grower error'. This was built into the plant's genetics. I've had plants that threw a random banana at week 8. I've had plants where the original mother would produce the odd sac, but her clones didn't express this trait. I've seen plants throw pollen, but it was sterile and didn't impregnate any neighbors. It's genetic variability, not grower error. I agree with you that many closet/tent growers are making errors unbeknownst to them, like light leaks, poor feeding schedules, over-training, poor environmental controls. But to say then that this is the only explanation in all instances of herm expression is foolish. Of course it also happens in more controlled, stable, professional environments that an individual will throw pollen without any unusual or extreme instances of stress. This is how genetics work. Especially when the breeding is being done as fast-paced and unscientifically as cannabis.
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The fact that you think even a "perfect" indoor grow room is "stress free" tells me everything. There's nothing natural about indoor lighting spectrum, a 12/12 cycle, being rootbound, and a myriad of other un-natural factors. If you grow 100 seeds out outdoors and they are 100% fine with zero hermaphrodites, is that strain "stable", in a natural environment that it's meant to be in? Now put that same 100 seeds indoors and 25% of them herm due to artificial environment or whatever stress you have in your "perfect grow room". Does that mean the strain isn't stable, or that your artificial environment is causing instability?
 
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Griffon

Well-Known Member
back in the days the claim of garden turn into hermie was probably there but since 3-4-5 years, a very lot of people experience this and lost big. It could be a good indicator of a ''new trend'' directly linked with the way the breeders breed their genetics compare to the past, maybe the genetics implicated are simply not stable or other genetics related problem ??

Another phenomenom that i've noticed, the balls come from a special pods under big colas and not classical bananas directly on the colas like before.
 
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originalphenohunters

Well-Known Member
Griffon said:
back in the days the claim of garden turn into hermie was probably there but since 3-4-5 years, a very lot of people experience this and lost big. It could be a good indicator of a ''new trend'' directly linked with the way the breeders breed their genetics compare to the past, maybe the genetics implicated are simply not stable or other genetics related problem ??

Another phenomenom that i've noticed, the balls come from a special pods under big colas and not classical bananas directly on the colas like before.
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Having grown for over 25 years and purchased thousands of dollars in seeds every year since, and grown them all. Everything from Breeder Steve's packs in the late 90's early 2000's to the most recent hype gelato crosses. The herm trait now is no worse, or better, than it was 25 years ago. There's just more people actually growing the seeds out today. In fact, some of the stuff I grew from Amsterdam/Canada 20 years ago was some of the worst herms I've seen. But I don't blame the genetics, my rooms/knowledge/experience played a major role in that as well. Now having grown in pretty much every type of cultivation climate imaginable, and grown all these strains in all those environments, I can say that environment plays the most important role. Some varieties may be more "sensitive" in an indoor environment... Like Sour Diesel... but I also can say that I've never once seen a hermaphroditic flower on Sour Diesel OUTDOORS. Across thousands of plants. Considering cannabis, like all plants, is meant to grow outside.... I would consider Sour Diesel a "stable" clone....but sensitive to artificial environments. While breeders "could" select only for "stability from seed plant" in an indoor grow environment, that doesn't meant the most "indoor stable" clone is going to be the dankest. Most of the seed plants with hermi traits from seed don't have those traits from clone. So which would you rather get? Seed plant "stability" in an artificial environment? Or the plant that is the best to cultivate from clone? Getting both in a single generation of hybridization would require resources that 100% of today's breeders don't have.
 
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boundybounderson

Well-Known Member
It's why MeneGene, who is pretty universally lauded as a guy with solid/worked stock and a vast knowledge of the plant puts out packs with an outdoor-only label i.e. growing those strains indoor is too risky from what he's seen in testing, but outdoors they'll do fine.

Anecdotally, I've had bad nanners on one Exotic Gen strain and MeanGene's Mean Mug threw ballsacks across most plants. 3 bills a pack for Mean Mug too. Unfortunate, but pretty much how it goes these days. Oh yeah, I also had nanners on Amsterdam seed stock in the mid-90s. I didn't even know wtf they were back then.
 
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