Examples of GOP Leadership

[cannabineer]

I'll try from now on. Kinda got a feel for the room now. But it is interesting to see some different points of view.

I recommend, as a starting point, putting some of your less well-founded beliefs into serious review. Restrict yourself to sources that have a solid chain of intellectual custody from starting premises. Most of the stuff on the Net does not qualify, with Loose Change being a particular violator. It helps not to hang out with the forum’s egregious libertarians; they have failed the test of distinguishing reason from sentiment. over and over again

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

For over a hundred years, appellate courts have ruled that the right enumerated in the Second Amendment is not absolute.

The only ones who think so are “originalists”, people who hold the untenable belief that the Constitution should be implemented as its framers intended 230 years ago, as if the profound changes in society and technology are beside the point. The analogy to hardline fundamentalists (whose read of scripture is corrupt. Scripture contains NONE of the sexual and reproductive barbarities being preached by the toxics.) is complete.

What the news of the last years has shown us is a tight correlation between an aggressive 2A stance and blatantly fascist pseudomilitia such as the Proud Boys. The other common feature is a disregard of the fact that defensive uses of a firearm are about 5% of the incidence of deliberate or accidental nondefense injury or death by gun. This does not count successful or attempted suicide by gun, which is again about as much as nondefense gun violence.

Thus the answer is plain: stop selling guns to people, with constrained exceptions. I also hold the opinion that gun laws that apply to civilians should apply to all civilians, especially the uniformed ones. Law enforcement exemptions to civilian gun law perpetuate a Rambo culture among cops. Let’em be equal before the law.

And do away with the tragicomedy of states’ control over gun laws. “States’ rights” is tge battle cry of Repugs, dominionists and others of a totalibertarian mindset.
Apply a uniform Federal standard, vetted by a Scotus recovered from the current Maganoma, so that the same law holds in Cheyenne as in Boston.

The only ones who cannot accept this idea are brownshirts, libertarians and other dangerous misfits. They can collectively go take a flying


fish.

i said roughly the same thing to him about a year or so ago...he gave the impression that he would consider it. guess he forgot the conversation...or just doesn't have another argument to offer, so he just keeps recycling the same one.

 

[cannabineer]

i said roughly the same thing to him about a year or so ago...he gave the impression that he would consider it. guess he forgot the conversation...or just doesn't have another argument to offer, so he just keeps recycling the same one.

yeah, he pulled the same moo plop about “opinion”. However … the horse may yet sing.

 

[Fogdog]

IKD man... I've thought about it long and hard, and can't seem to figure out what would really work to stop these horrible events. I'd say that (depending on location), private gun sales account for about 30% of all guns sales. They are all under the radar. But, then again, that's your right to sell a gun privately. Even if you stopped all gun sales right now, it's still gonna happen. Tough subject.... and I have no solutions or answers. Just thought I'd see if anybody has some input on the subject.

You don't think long and hard about anything. You study right wing conspiracy theories, propaganda and pre-written right wing troll posting material. You might not be smart but you can memorize, I'll hand you that.

That said, uninformed people like you and me aren't going to solve this complex issue by staring at our navels. I think gun rights advocates are correct when they say gun violence is not just about guns. But the hypocritical assholes prevented answering the follow up question, "so what is it?" In 1998, Republican-controlled congress inserted the Dickey amendment (appropriately named) which prevented government agencies to study gun violence and how to reduce gun homicides. The amendment remained in place until 2019.

Finally, we are doing the rational thing. Studying the underlying reasons behind our obscenely high rate of violence and death due to guns. It takes time to build a field of experts and to grow our understanding of this problem. So, if you ask today "what should we do", answers can only come from uninformed people like you and me. in other words, anything that comes forward today from anybody in the US, including law makers, are simply guesses.

So, let's begin by looking at how other nations are holding down gun violence and gun homicides. Canada, Japan, Australia, for example. Maybe a good start would be to look at what they are doing. Oh, wait. They have strong gun laws. How do you feel about that?

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

You don't think long and hard about anything. You study right wing conspiracy theories, propaganda and pre-written right wing troll posting material. You might not be smart but you can memorize, I'll hand you that.

That said, uninformed people like you and me aren't going to solve this complex issue by staring at our navels. I think gun rights advocates are correct when they say gun violence is not just about guns. But the hypocritical assholes prevented answering the follow up question, "so what is it?" In 1998, Republican-controlled congress inserted the Dickey amendment (appropriately named) which prevented government agencies to study gun violence and how to reduce gun homicides. The amendment remained in place until 2019.

Finally, we are doing the rational thing. Studying the underlying reasons behind our obscenely high rate of violence and death due to guns. It takes time to build a field of experts and to grow our understanding of this problem. So, if you ask today "what should we do", answers can only come from uninformed people like you and me. in other words, anything that comes forward today from anybody in the US, including law makers, are simply guesses.

So, let's begin by looking at how other nations are holding down gun violence and gun homicides. Canada, Japan, Australia, for example. Maybe a good start would be to look at what they are doing. Oh, wait. They have strong gun laws. How do you feel about that?

I'll tell you exactly how I feel about that. We are a big Nation. We've had guns around longer than anyone else. We have more guns in private homes, private collections, enthusiasts, etc. I personally don't know how many guns I have, as I've lost count.. I'd have to do inventory. However. Canada, Japan, and Australia have always had a more strict gun law, so it was easier to control... we are, as the United States, well beyond the count of guns. I couldn't even take a guess at how many are in the US. So with that being said, you can't compare those other Counties to ours as far as control... it's already out of control as of the mid 1900's. So this is kinda like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube (as someone on here already stated). I don't have the answer. We have a 2nd amendment right that's been in place for a looong time. Too long, too late.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

i said roughly the same thing to him about a year or so ago...he gave the impression that he would consider it. guess he forgot the conversation...or just doesn't have another argument to offer, so he just keeps recycling the same one.

Shit changes... I still love you though, and hope you have a great weekend. I guess I've realized that there are crazier people than you and me in this World. .. and it's gotten sad to see the daily news.. even though I try to avoid seeing it. But you all have valid points. Have a peaceful evening.

 

[MICHI-CAN]

Shit changes... I still love you though, and hope you have a great weekend.

And knowing the room now, you know how much and how far to fling. Assuming you give a rats ass. LOL.

 

[DoubleAtotheRON]

And knowing the room now, you know how much and how far to fling. Assuming you give a rats ass. LOL.

Right.

 

[cannabineer]

I'll tell you exactly how I feel about that. We are a big Nation. We've had guns around longer than anyone else. We have more guns in private homes, private collections, enthusiasts, etc. I personally don't know how many guns I have, as I've lost count.. I'd have to do inventory. However. Canada, Japan, and Australia have always had a more strict gun law, so it was easier to control... we are, as the United States, well beyond the count of guns. I couldn't even take a guess at how many are in the US. So with that being said, you can't compare those other Counties to ours as far as control... it's already out of control as of the mid 1900's. So this is kinda like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube (as someone on here already stated). I don't have the answer. We have a 2nd amendment right that's been in place for a looong time. Too long, too late.

It is much simpler if you institute a registry.

Currently the hurdle to registration is, alongside far-right populists, the NRA, who are not at all about citizens’ rights. What they are is a powerful lobby for arms and ammo manufacturers. They have strongarmed Republican campaigners with much success. They bragged openly about being able to make or break candidates. They are as corrupt as the megapastors and their pet legislators, and as bad for open political dialog.

Democrats, by and large, have called the bluff and take NRA opposition as part of the terrain. It liberates them.

So: break the NRA as a kingmaker. It can be done, with a paradoxical improvement in actual liberty vs. the right-wing imitation now used to bully candidates and voters.

Then, institute a registry and annual licensure for each gun, and make possession of an unregistered arm a felony, and the use of one in a crime a likely prison sentence addition of years on top of the sentence for the criminal conviction.

We’ll need to clean a lot of Birchers out of the appellate courts in order to take it across the goal line, something we need to do anyway if we are gonna restore the civil rights the fascists have been undoing.

The job becomes easier once certain premises are discarded. I’ve already spoken to originalist thought regarding the core document.

 

[MICHI-CAN]

Right.

A wood fuck would fuck as much as much wood as a fuck would let him thing. Strange multitude of means to convey misinterpretations abound for our preponderance. Can is one of cosmic worms.

 

[Budzbuddha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573462833064443904

 

[MICHI-CAN]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573462833064443904

Heh budz. Why would a black female knock on my door wearing a conservatives for democracy t shirt and ask me to vote for a black man supporting frump?

 

[Fogdog]

I'll tell you exactly how I feel about that. We are a big Nation. We've had guns around longer than anyone else. We have more guns in private homes, private collections, enthusiasts, etc. I personally don't know how many guns I have, as I've lost count.. I'd have to do inventory. However. Canada, Japan, and Australia have always had a more strict gun law, so it was easier to control... we are, as the United States, well beyond the count of guns. I couldn't even take a guess at how many are in the US. So with that being said, you can't compare those other Counties to ours as far as control... it's already out of control as of the mid 1900's. So this is kinda like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube (as someone on here already stated). I don't have the answer. We have a 2nd amendment right that's been in place for a looong time. Too long, too late.

Typical. I asked you what you think and you told me how you felt.

Just saying, Other countries have strong gun laws and low rates of violence. They also have health care for all, less wealth disparity and stronger democracies.

lulz at the "can't put toothpaste back in the tube". Who is saying we should do that? It's a straw man argument. We can start looking at restricting gun sales. The next generation of assault rifles will be much more deadly than the current version. But oh no, toothpaste. So do nothing.

Changing the subject. The new anti abortion laws Republicans enacted totally suck.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573462833064443904

if that would have played for just a few more seconds, he could have said "because i almost destroyed both our country, and our democracy as well."

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Typical. I asked you what you think and you told me how you felt.

Just saying, Other countries have strong gun laws and low rates of violence. They also have health care for all, less wealth disparity and stronger democracies.

lulz at the "can't put toothpaste back in the tube". Who is saying we should do that? It's a straw man argument. We can start looking at restricting gun sales. The next generation of assault rifles will be much more deadly than the current version. But oh no, toothpaste. So do nothing.

Changing the subject. The new anti abortion laws Republicans enacted totally suck.

it's so interesting, now that i've ignored him, i can read the same posts i posted two and three years ago...he's still using the same arguments, he's seen them refuted, he knows they're wrong...so why does he keep bringing up the same already refuted crap? because that's all he's got...and all he wants.
you're not going to trigger any kind of epiphany...he doesn't want to change, he just wants to troll. he tries to be friendly while trying to convince you that his line of horseshit is right. i don't have time to be friendly with people who have been willfully full of horseshit for at least three years, and will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Hey Cruz … STFU YOU HACK.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573716023676751873

You lose every Republican when you use the word "expert".

 

[Fogdog]

it's so interesting, now that i've ignored him, i can read the same posts i posted two and three years ago...he's still using the same arguments, he's seen them refuted, he knows they're wrong...so why does he keep bringing up the same already refuted crap? because that's all he's got...and all he wants.
you're not going to trigger any kind of epiphany...he doesn't want to change, he just wants to troll. he tries to be friendly while trying to convince you that his line of horseshit is right. i don't have time to be friendly with people who have been willfully full of horseshit for at least three years, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Just look at his post. His argument is, because a lot of guns are on the streets, nothing can be done and 2A.

He's comfortable and is not going to change. I don't know why he's hanging out here. He'd be better off in a termite colony. They haven't changed in a million years.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

You lose every Republican when you use the word "expert".

they'll say anything, clutch at any straw...you have to remember we're dealing with at least two separate sets of motivations...
the gun industry, the nra, and republicans (and some democrats, unfortunately) are motivated by greed...they like making billions of dollars a year, and they couldn't give one shit about the murders they're facilitating...which as far as i'm concerned, makes them just as guilty as whoever is pulling those triggers...
and then you have the gun buyers...i'd guess about 1/3 of them are fairly innocent, they don't carry daily, they store their arms responsibly, they take precautions against kids getting ahold of their weapons....these people's motivations are fairly benign, target shooting, maybe home protection.
then you have 1/3 who are irresponsible. they may carry, if they think they're going someplace "they may need to"...which raises the question, "why are you going to a place where you feel like you might need a firearm to protect yourself? " and they take very little care about storing their weapons, giving thieves ample opportunities to steal them, and children a chance to kill themselves or a family member. these people will usually quote the same motives, but if they were honest, they would include feelings of inadequacy, and cowardice ...then you have the 1/3 that shouldn't be allowed to use safety scissors unsupervised...they carry every time they leave their house, their weapons are constantly loaded with one in the chamber, they don't own a safe or a gunlock...they're the ones you read about who kill a friend or family member in a domestic argument, they're the ones firing at other cars because they got cut off, they're the ones who get their weapons stolen, because they're careless, thoughtless fools. their motivations are pretty transparent...they like violence, and hope to get a chance to engage in it...like kenosha kyle...and the gun makers, the nra, and republicans love him, and protect him...as long as he keeps buying guns, and making other people like him keep buying guns...

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Just look at his post. His argument is, because a lot of guns are on the streets, nothing can be done and 2A.

He's comfortable and is not going to change. I don't know why he's hanging out here. He'd be better off in a termite colony. They haven't changed in a million years. They haven't improved either.

he wants some kind of validation i guess, someone to pat him on the shoulder and tell him its ok he's full of shit...but it's not ok, and i'm tired of telling him it is. fuck him and his willful idiocy. he's been exposed to the truth and is resistant, i got no more time to waste on him.

 

[cannabineer]

Just look at his post. His argument is, because a lot of guns are on the streets, nothing can be done and 2A.

He's comfortable and is not going to change. I don't know why he's hanging out here. He'd be better off in a termite colony. They haven't changed in a million years. They haven't improved either.

Termites have the right to keep&bear. It’s gotten to their heads, so to speak.