Hello guys, I would like to get your opinion regarding this led light. I'm currently using a 400w HPS bulb in a 4x4 room growing 4 auto's which cover the whole area.Ive been thinking of changing the HPS for a LED. My main concern is that I want to benefit from the electricity cost reduction which the LEDs provide, while also get extra yield or at least the same as a 400w HPS. Below I've attached the specs,its 240w with samsung lm301b leds.Probably gonna spread them so the whole canopy gets around 600 μmols.Thanks for your time
Need help with LED choice.
There's nothing about these lights that make me think they're a good buy, regardless of the price.
You're not going to get 600µmols across a canopy from these lights. These lights have horrible uniformity - they have a hot spot in the 1' x 1' (approximately) area in the center and then light output plummets. Those grid squares are 4 ½" each which means that, once you leave that area that's about 1' x 1' in the center, you're well on your way to PPFD's of < 500 µmols.
Also, why 600µmols?
You're not going to get 600µmols across a canopy from these lights. These lights have horrible uniformity - they have a hot spot in the 1' x 1' (approximately) area in the center and then light output plummets. Those grid squares are 4 ½" each which means that, once you leave that area that's about 1' x 1' in the center, you're well on your way to PPFD's of < 500 µmols.
Also, why 600µmols?
If the OP doesn't indicate a budget, it's anyone's guess.
I have a 2' x 4' tent and I use lights from Chilled, among others. I think they make great lights but their 4' lights start at $1049 and, at that price, I'd seriously look at two Atreum's or go with the Spider Farmer SF-7000 which has a stunning PPFD map
Reason for edit:
My original post was based on the values at ppfdcharts.com I just checked the PPFD map on the SF site - it generates more than enough light to run in a CO2 environment.
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I gave 300.00 cad for my sf4000, there are deals out there
orangejesus
Well-Known Member
I'm planning my first grow in a 2x4 and am looking hard at ChilLED - would you recommend, or overkill for my first time?
Thanks -
I've got a ChiLED X3 in my veg room & Couldn't be happier.
I can write pages on this (I started writing but it's too long to post).
It's not overkill, by any means. Chilled makes an excellent product and, if you've got the budget, go for it. The only caveat is that Chilled, like HLG, makes a veg light and a flower ("full cycle") light. If you buy just the full cycle light, you'd be well served to add a blue LED or an inexpensive veg light. I can go into the rationale for that but there are a few pieces to the puzzle (hence my comment about writing "pages").
Are you familiar with how different color light impacts plant shape or yield? Have you watched any Bugbee videos on grow lighting?
I did a grow in 2017 that got pooched due to a power outage. I started growing again in early 2021 and have done three grows in a 2' x 4' tent. I didn't have my X2 veg light for my last grow so I used my Mars SP 3000 (which I retired when I got the X2) plus a blue LED puck for veg and then used the X3 in flower ("for the win") and I ended up with 790 grams from two Gorilla Glue autos. That works out to 947 gm/M2. I firmly believe that the X3 was a significant factor in that yield because the X3 is a red heavy light (ie. it generates very blue few blue photons which is key because as the percentage of blue photons increases, yield decreases) and also because the X3 produces a lot of light (and there is a direct, linear relationship between DLI and plant yield, crop yield, and crop quality). But I won't go into detail on that topics or I'll end up writing pages, per above.
If you're interested in the Growcraft lights for a 2' x 4', check out the X6 mini. It's got some advantages over the X3 but also one downside compared to the X3 that I can think of. And don't go cheap like I did and get and X2 - I was penny wise and pound foolish on that.
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Thanks a lot for your input, I've read somewhere that you need at least 600 μmols for the flowering stage. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Ideally I would like to spend no more that 250-300€ for a LED that will replace my 400w. I don't need something more than this. I was thinking about getting two 120w of the ones I've attached and spread them so it covers it as much as possible.
Horselover fat
Well-Known Member
790g in a 2*4? Got pics? That's more than I've heard anyone do so I would love to see it.
Hooda Thunkit
Well-Known Member
Amazon lists a 480w-ish bar light from a company called Samophon (or similar). One of the fellows on here ran it next to a MarsHydro FCE 4800, and the Samaphon (?) compared favorably. Said lights were recently ~ $369, shipped in the US. I know things are harder to come by sometimes depending on where you are in the EU.
Killer Sativa
Well-Known Member
I consider this the minimum.
Sorry if I’m late to the conversation but I think I understand the grow area to be 2’x4’…..?
If so, I can endorse the light I use with zero reservations.
My space is a closet that’s 2’x6’ and my current run is using all of it. My HLG 320xl r-spec has performed like a champ and I’d hate to think of what it could do if I knew more and did a better job on my end. I believe it can be purchased for around $400usd….I bought the kit from a local shop for even less and they assembled it.
I can only say that the buds have been stunning, rock hard, and the secondary level flowers were just as dense.
Lastly, their customer service has been great too.
If so, I can endorse the light I use with zero reservations.
My space is a closet that’s 2’x6’ and my current run is using all of it. My HLG 320xl r-spec has performed like a champ and I’d hate to think of what it could do if I knew more and did a better job on my end. I believe it can be purchased for around $400usd….I bought the kit from a local shop for even less and they assembled it.
I can only say that the buds have been stunning, rock hard, and the secondary level flowers were just as dense.
Lastly, their customer service has been great too.
Six hundred is a good start. At 600µmols, your DLI in a 12/12 flower will be 600 * 12 *0.036 = 26 mols which is where my "damaged" auto flower is sitting now (day 24). I assume 600µmols will flower but, at that level, I would guess that yield will be in the crapper.
The "light compensation point" for cannabis is 64µmols (based on the information that I've been able to find), so anything above light level that supports plant growth. Below that level, a leaf is using more nutrients (meaning glucose not "nutes") than it can photosynthesize so it is a net photosynthetic loss below that amount of light.
Cannabis will tolerate light (the "light saturation point") up to 800-1000µmols in a non-CO2 environment. With light, it's "the more the better" with two caveats - if you're providing "lotsa light", the other parts of your grow environment have to be squared away and, second, it's up to the plant. ATM, I have two Strawberry Pie autos in early veg. One is happy at 450µmols while the other one, which has lagged developmentally, is still stuck at 300µmols (photo period is 20 hours).
Some plants will be able to deal with 1kµmols, some might not be able to handle more than 350 (that's the case with a grow on another cannabis forum - the grow has had a mag deficiency that he can't get rid of and anything > 350µmols causes light stress) so it's up to the grower to decide how much light to give.
A lot of lights in the marketplace have a max PPFD of around 900-1k. No coincidence there.
And you'll be able to grow cannabis but will you get the results that you're expecting?
If you go with a "brand name" commodity light (Mars, Vipar, etc.) that amount will get a good 2' x 4' light. Migro, based in Dublin, does the "Aray" series that's a great design and you can get a light for a 2' x 4' for about €220.
That's what the market is signaling - to design, manufacture, market, and support a light that will can generate a reasonable amount of light in a 2' x 4' is at least €220 (I'm surprised the price is that low on the Migro, BTW).
For the Migro, the data that's on their product page shows a hang height of 10". While I don't question the accuracy, I do question the validity. Sure, if your canopy is really flat, a hang height of 10" is a usable metric. Here in the real world, very few canopies are so even that you the 1-" figure has any real meaning. For that simple fact, a 10" hang height is not a usable metric for most grows.
Back to your issue - prices represent "signals" - companies offer a product at a given price and, if no one buys, the price is too high. If they sell out "immediately", perhaps the price is too low. The pricing in the grow light market is "signaling" that the price point you're trying to hit cannot be met by the more popular/more commonly sold products in the marketplace.
Either bring more money or change your requirements.
One stragegy is to wait until you have enough funds to light your tent.
Another approach is the incremental approach - don't try to light the entire 4' but to get a light that will do a good job on 2' x 4' of the 4' x 4' and run that light for a few grows. If you find that you like growing cannabis and that you don't kill your plants (some growers don't get the knack of it), then you can either add a second light for the other 2' x 4' of your 4' x 4' or you can replace the 2' x 4' light with a grow light that will cover the entire space.
A 4' x 4' is good sized grow environment. If you go by seed seller data (stop laughing!
) a lot of them are stating that autos will generate about 500 gm/M2. The 4' tent is a bit under 2 M2 so you could be generating quite a bit of cannabis - do you actually want to generate almost a kilo every three months? What would happen if, say, you started with growing just ½ of your tent?A key point to remember is that with just a 2' x 4' grow space, you can grow a lot of cannabis. Why not start with a light that will do a bang up job on ½ of your tent and then, if you decide that you want more yield, add more plants and a second light?
Hope that helps.
Homegrown Hero
Well-Known Member
As many have mentioned, spider farmer is the best product for the price. I’ve been running a Mars Hydro TSL 2000 for almost two years now, been really impressed with the flower size, density, overall yield
"got pics" - hundreds.
Oops - it was 729 gm, not 790. Yield per square meter was 947gm.
There were two plants in the tent, "Chris" (Everet) and Wilma (Rudolph). Like her namesake, Wilma had problems throughout and she yielded very little compared to Chris.
The grow ran 119 days, germination to chopping Chris. I didn't chop some of Wilma because there was simply no point. Similarly, per the light data (next posting), I turned down the light in late flower because there was simply no reason to run the light at 320 - there was so much weed in the tent that it wasn't worth the very small increase in cost to run at 320 vs 270 watts.
Per the light data, it wasn't until 6/8/22 that I finally decided to "turn it up to 11" re. lighting. I've gathered a lot of data over the past 18 months re. grow lighting but even up to 6/8/22 I was in the "45 mols is about all you need" mindset. I knew about light saturation point, etc., etc. but I still didn't change until I was watching one of the DeBacco videos (again) where he just laid out the data that I'd read a long time before. I finally got my head out of my ass and went to > 60 mols soon after.
In addition to not giving "max light" for the first part of the grow, I had thrips but managed to kill them off. Also, like a newbie fool, "Nah, I don't need a trellis." Won't make that mistake again.
Two of Chris' branches fell out of the tent so I used a Vipar Spectra XS-1500 to light them. I had the Vipar Spectra from a previous grow when one of the plants (next posting, last photo) ended up growing much larger than the other plant. I did not keep data about the yield from those two branches but they were not as prodigious as the branches under the main light.
Here's the data from the yield tab in my Excel grow journal:
Pictures of the grow:
Pictures from the harvest:
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bubblescrogs
Well-Known Member
I’ve got two aray 3’s for a 6 x 2 but these should be nice for a 4 x 4. Excellent coverage and can get them 6” away for over 900 umol https://migrolight.com/collections/all/products/migro-aray-8-480w-530w
