Need advice on a grow..

[Bullmark]

This is my first indoor photo plant grow after several autos w/mixed, but overall positive results. It’s also my first dive into coco, which has been phenomenal to say the least.
Anyway, the specs: 3 plants…I pictured them individually and together. Jack Herer, Amnesia, and Gelato OG (it’s the shortest). Space is just 2’x6’, lighting is HLG 320W r-spec LED.
Growing in 5 gal fabric pots, in Fox Farms 70/30 Coco, amended with a secret blend of bat guano, kelp, Gaia Green 4-4-4, and EWC….so secret I can’t really remember it myself…lol.
Plants were moved in the 5 gal pots 3 weeks ago and have been given tap water (ph to 6.1-6.3) and once a week drink of stump tea for microbe action.
I’ve never had plants grow so fast and healthy…actually too fast. They are barely 7 weeks old and I’ve defoliated each one 4/5 times, along with topping and training. I’m going for kind of a lollipop style and can’t imagine what they would look like if I had done nothing.
I would have flipped them to 12/12 already but I was finishing out a small auto, which held up progress.
Here are my issues: 1) I’m afraid I don’t have enough space. Height wise I’m ok….I can raise my light and dim it if need be. But the width of my space is only 24” and they are already bunching up against the side.
Should I take off some of the lower side branches? I’ve tried to get my canopy as even as possible but there are a few shorter small shoots.
Should I only grow 2 plants? I’ve read and believe that the buds are healthier and bigger if they’re not crowded and have some space around them. Any advice on the space issue is greatly appreciated.
2) I’m a little unsure of when to topdress. The plan was to topdress with mostly GG 2-8-4 and EWC. I was thinking here in the next week-10 days since that will be a month in the current amended mix and they don’t look hungry to me. I’m gonna try for weekly or every other week topdressings w/ lighter doses hoping this will enable me to correct any potential problems more effectively with less excess in the medium already. Again, it’s my first rodeo w/ this concoction and I’m just feeling it out.
After I started this run with coco and dry organics, I began reading about how the two (coco and dry ferts) didn’t go well together and was gonna be nothing but problems. It bummed me out at the time, but I’ve seen nothing but excellent growth with zero signs of any problems whatsoever.
I water every other day and keep my runoff to a minimum…..I get runoff but probably not what a grower would usually get if feeding synthetics. Incidentally I do check the runoff ppm but only out of boredom. I used to think it would alert me to my remaining levels of amendments but the numbers have no rhyme or reason….and no pattern at all.
i just flipped them yesterday and decided to do a few days of 16/8 before moving to 12/12.
So if anyone has any suggestions or thoughts please holla back.
One more thing….these 3 plants had a rough rough start and were stunted and almost dead.
Being able to nurse them back to health and back on track is a big reason I can’t imagine growing any more autos.
Thanks everyone.

 

[GreezzyGuy]

overall looks like either your medium is a little to wet and trace nutes are not moving like they should. Your Ph is to high,
or it could be to much phos,which will also show up as a manganese and an iron deficiency. But dose not look like to much phos. looks like ph or wet medium.and a slight phos deficiency,with the beginnings of a calcium def. Notice the tips of your leaves starting to curve. and the slight discoloration of the serrated tips. they are slightly discolored ,beginnings of a calcium def. You have yellow meristems ,(calcium,manganese ,zinc,boron,)iron to but its more interveinal chlorosis. If it was boron the meristem would start to die at that color,manganese will have necrotic spots by that color
so i would say calcium creating the yellow tops,the dull dark green is from lack of phos.

bring your feed solution/ water down to 5.8 and run them on the dry side,

 

[GreezzyGuy]

But you are right there and doing a great job man. dry them out and they will hit their CHI.

 

[Bullmark]

overall looks like either your medium is a little to wet and trace nutes are not moving like they should. Your Ph is to high,
or it could be to much phos,which will also show up as a manganese and an iron deficiency. But dose not look like to much phos. looks like ph or wet medium.and a slight phos deficiency,with the beginnings of a calcium def. Notice the tips of your leaves starting to curve. and the slight discoloration of the serrated tips. they are slightly discolored ,beginnings of a calcium def. You have yellow meristems ,(calcium,manganese ,zinc,boron,)iron to but its more interveinal chlorosis. If it was boron the meristem would start to die at that color,manganese will have necrotic spots by that color
so i would say calcium creating the yellow tops,the dull dark green is from lack of phos.

bring your feed solution/ water down to 5.8 and run them on the dry side,

Wow….I’m so new at this I can’t figure out if your assessment is real or an attempt at humor from the very highly technical critique…..forgive me for not being able to differentiate.
I guess for the time being I’ll take you at your word and sum up your suggestions as 1. Water less often and 2. Lower the PH.
I will say that in the pics some of the new growth looks almost yellow, but that is not the case. They are def lighter green but I’m not sure they’re light enough to worry about.
Next, the only odd coloring I have noticed is sometimes one of the plants will present an almost bluish hue around the leaf edges. Is this what you were talking about?
Secondly, the plants could certainly withstand a bit more time between waterings….the mix is still very moist when I water now except for the very top layer.
I have always been told to never ever let coco get completely dry. So I was trying for a happy medium by not watering daily but not letting things get too dry.
One more thing….I was also advised to water with a higher ph than coco normally calls for.
i had never heard of Mr Canuck until a friend accused me of imitating his grow.. Anyway, he apparently used the same format (coco and dry amendments) and stated that he ph’ed even higher than I currently do….I think he was at 6.4 or 6.5. I generally bring my tap down to 6.2.
I’m just not experienced enough to see the minor details and be able to tie it all together.
I will try allowing another dry day between waterings and bring my ph down a notch….I guess I can always change it back if things go south.
Thank you for alerting me to some of the issues that I should know about…..I guess I knew they weren’t lab quality perfect but I was satisfied overall.
Do you have any thoughts on my actual questions in the original post??
As I Indicated, I’m worried about the plants but having enough space. And I’m unsure about when to give the first top dressing of bloom ferts.
Thank u so much for taking time to weigh in and educate an old dog learning a new trick.
I’ll be googling “what is a meristem” as soon as I finish this replay…lol
Seriously, I appreciate it.

 

[NotTheRobot]

... As I Indicated, I’m worried about the plants but having enough space. And I’m unsure about when to give the first top dressing of bloom ferts.

You have done well with the plants. They look great.

My tent (4x4 with 3 plants) is very full now and I'm moving plants outside on nice days. I don't know if this is an option for you but it's working for me so far. The plants are tight in the tent during dark cycle but get lots of light during light cycle. I'm also going dry outside and the pots get pretty light during a day in the sun.

 

[GreezzyGuy]

Wow….I’m so new at this I can’t figure out if your assessment is real or an attempt at humor from the very highly technical critique…..forgive me for not being able to differentiate.
I guess for the time being I’ll take you at your word and sum up your suggestions as 1. Water less often and 2. Lower the PH.
I will say that in the pics some of the new growth looks almost yellow, but that is not the case. They are def lighter green but I’m not sure they’re light enough to worry about.
Next, the only odd coloring I have noticed is sometimes one of the plants will present an almost bluish hue around the leaf edges. Is this what you were talking about?
Secondly, the plants could certainly withstand a bit more time between waterings….the mix is still very moist when I water now except for the very top layer.
I have always been told to never ever let coco get completely dry. So I was trying for a happy medium by not watering daily but not letting things get too dry.
One more thing….I was also advised to water with a higher ph than coco normally calls for.
i had never heard of Mr Canuck until a friend accused me of imitating his grow.. Anyway, he apparently used the same format (coco and dry amendments) and stated that he ph’ed even higher than I currently do….I think he was at 6.4 or 6.5. I generally bring my tap down to 6.2.
I’m just not experienced enough to see the minor details and be able to tie it all together.
I will try allowing another dry day between waterings and bring my ph down a notch….I guess I can always change it back if things go south.
Thank you for alerting me to some of the issues that I should know about…..I guess I knew they weren’t lab quality perfect but I was satisfied overall.
Do you have any thoughts on my actual questions in the original post??
As I Indicated, I’m worried about the plants but having enough space. And I’m unsure about when to give the first top dressing of bloom ferts.
Thank u so much for taking time to weigh in and educate an old dog learning a new trick.
I’ll be googling “what is a meristem” as soon as I finish this replay…lol
Seriously, I appreciate it.

In your 3rd picture is where i see the the blue hue it is usually a phos def. the light green/yellow looks to me like a slight cal def, both more then likely from high ph or wet medium or both.

Whether dirt or DWC, mag and calcium like lower ph. phos also. 5.6 to 5.8
Your plants look almost perfect. so i would suggest dryer medium and drop your ph to 5.6 let it drift up to 6.1 any yellowing from the top down usually is a trace nute,
The curved tips and non 45 degree leaves tells me that calcium is lacking in the meristem and margins
I didnt mean to come off as a slight . Not at all.
Also pull one of you oldest leaves and hold it up to your light and look at the back side let the light shine threw. Report back and tell us if you see a slight interveinal chlorosis.Any discoloration in between the veins.The veins should just be a darker green but almost the same as the plat tissue in between the veins. If not there is an issue may be slight but none the less .still an issue.

Truly not knocking you at all, i think you are doing an amazing job for a rookie,and I am not patronizing you at all.

 

[Bullmark]

In your 3rd picture is where i see the the blue hue it is usually a phos def. the light green/yellow looks to me like a slight cal def, both more then likely from high ph or wet medium or both.

Whether dirt or DWC, mag and calcium like lower ph. phos also. 5.6 to 5.8
Your plants look almost perfect. so i would suggest dryer medium and drop your ph to 5.6 let it drift up to 6.1 any yellowing from the top down usually is a trace nute,
The curved tips and non 45 degree leaves tells me that calcium is lacking in the meristem and margins
I didnt mean to come off as a slight . Not at all.
Also pull one of you oldest leaves and hold it up to your light and look at the back side let the light shine threw. Report back and tell us if you see a slight interveinal chlorosis.Any discoloration in between the veins.The veins should just be a darker green but almost the same as the plat tissue in between the veins. If not there is an issue may be slight but none the less .still an issue.

Truly not knocking you at all, i think you are doing an amazing job for a rookie,and I am not patronizing you at all.

Def no offense taken and I’m thankful someone with such an in-depth understanding is volunteering their time to help me.
I do see all the things you’ve pointed out and want to correct them if I can.
I’m not trying to win the Cannabis Cup here but I would like to optimize the things under my control.
I will immediately wait a bit longer between waterings and bring my PH down a bit.
Early on I was PH’ing at 6.0 and things looked fine. I was then told to up it, so I did.
Do you think a light dose of cal-mag would help at all?
Lastly, can you explain ph drifting?? I’m not sure what you mean when you suggested it.
I don’t mean to make you my pot growing “phone a friend” but it’s very easy to get bad advice on these grow sites. When you finally have someone willing to help who knows their craft it’s a real asset….so I promise I won’t bug you but I’d like to ask more questions as time goes on.
Thank you again and take care.

 

[GreezzyGuy]

Ph drift. When you mix your nutes for feeding set the PH to 5.6 check the run off /res tank see what the Ph is. As nutes are pulled out (usually nitrate. when its used what is left in the medium and res is a negatively charged OH- or HCO3– which are bases.) the PH will drift up ,let it until run off /res is 6.1 if it drifts down your medium needs flushing salt build up or you need to adjust nutes more bloom less nitrate.
So when you feed whether nutes or strait water, ph it to 5.6 and feed untill your tray fills test that ,that will dictate what the next feed will be.
And as long as your mix is in the right ratios regardless of PPM plants are very forgiving if nutes are in ratio with each other.Its really hard to get a phosphorus toxicity you will see a maganese ,and iron def. first .Its hard to get a Potassium toxicity,unless you have high sodium in your water ,It is also hard to get a nitrogen toxicity,unless other nutes are out of ratio.

as far as spraying with a cal spray check the calcium in the mix if it is the same % as the nitrate your good dry them out if its less wont hurt,and really wont hurt either way ,just to much calcium can aggravate boron uptake.(rarely)

This is all check at run off or after topping off res

But obviously you are checking your run off.
But dont freak out and over do it by flushing to much if the PH drifts down, 5.2 wont hurt your plant one bit. UNLESS.you are running a hot trace nute mix. they can handle it .

Run them on the dry side . maintain Ph 5.6 to 6.1 and you will be fine .
If i missed anything ask me again lol.

 

[GreezzyGuy]

I mix my own nutes But i will give you an Idea what i run
Its a 3 part nute all mixed in 3, 5 gallon buckets
n p k cal
Bucket 1 calcium nitrate-15.5-0-0-19.5 1 pound per 5 gallon
bucket 2 magnesium sulfate mg.10% S13% 1/2 pound per 5 gallon
bucket3 all of these 1 pound per 5 gallon
n4%
P20518%
K2O38%
mg .20%
B .20%
Cu .05%
Fe .40%
Mn .20%
Mo .01%
Zn .05%
i mix all of these at 2 parts bucket 1 2 parts bucket 3 and 1 part bucket 2 until i reach 2.2 ec
PPM of each
nitrate 170ppm
phosphorus 50ppm
potassium 320ppm
calcium 185ppm
magnesium 50ppm
sulfur 158ppm
iron 4ppm
manganese 2ppm
boron 2ppm
zinc .2ppm
copper .5ppm
molybdenum .1ppm with the adjusted ph it comes out to about 1100 ppm, i run to 1680 ppm and 5.6 to 6.1 all the time with no issues.

 

[drsaltzman]

Do you have any thoughts on my actual questions in the original post??
As I Indicated, I’m worried about the plants but having enough space. And I’m unsure about when to give the first top dressing of bloom ferts.

I have a 2x4. I’ve grown three. Mostly two.
The weight doesn’t fluctuate as much as you’d think.
You’re OK.
Plants look nice. They’re liking what you’re doing.

 

[Bullmark]

I mix my own nutes But i will give you an Idea what i run
Its a 3 part nute all mixed in 3, 5 gallon buckets
n p k cal
Bucket 1 calcium nitrate-15.5-0-0-19.5 1 pound per 5 gallon
bucket 2 magnesium sulfate mg.10% S13% 1/2 pound per 5 gallon
bucket3 all of these 1 pound per 5 gallon
n4%
P20518%
K2O38%
mg .20%
B .20%
Cu .05%
Fe .40%
Mn .20%
Mo .01%
Zn .05%
i mix all of these at 2 parts bucket 1 2 parts bucket 3 and 1 part bucket 2 until i reach 2.2 ec
PPM of each
nitrate 170ppm
phosphorus 50ppm
potassium 320ppm
calcium 185ppm
magnesium 50ppm
sulfur 158ppm
iron 4ppm
manganese 2ppm
boron 2ppm
zinc .2ppm
copper .5ppm
molybdenum .1ppm with the adjusted ph it comes out to about 1100 ppm, i run to 1680 ppm and 5.6 to 6.1 all the time with no issues.

They went to 12/12 on 7/14….4 days ago. When would you do the first top dress?
I plan on some EWC along with a mix of 1/3 Gaia Green 4-4-4 and 2/3 Gaia Green 2-8-4. I figured they would need a little nitrogen added above what’s in the flowering fert.
I’m wide open for suggestions on that particular recipe. I have some 10-3-1 bat guano and 1-.1-2 kelp meal sitting around if they might make more sense. I thought about replacing the 4-4-4 with the bat guano or adding smaller amounts of both.
Anyway, I’m just unsure when to do the first top dress. They’ve been in their current pots for about a month….and I’ve seen the runoff ppm go down consistently with the last 3 waterings, although runoff ppm with dry organics can do some funky stuff as the entire amended amounts are not available all at once.
Any input here is appreciated. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[GreezzyGuy]

They went to 12/12 on 7/14….4 days ago. When would you do the first top dress?
I plan on some EWC along with a mix of 1/3 Gaia Green 4-4-4 and 2/3 Gaia Green 2-8-4. I figured they would need a little nitrogen added above what’s in the flowering fert.
I’m wide open for suggestions on that particular recipe. I have some 10-3-1 bat guano and 1-.1-2 kelp meal sitting around if they might make more sense. I thought about replacing the 4-4-4 with the bat guano or adding smaller amounts of both.
Anyway, I’m just unsure when to do the first top dress. They’ve been in their current pots for about a month….and I’ve seen the runoff ppm go down consistently with the last 3 waterings, although runoff ppm with dry organics can do some funky stuff as the entire amended amounts are not available all at once.
Any input here is appreciated. Thanks again for all the help.

I would be afraid to give any advice
whats on the label on the 2-8-4

 

[Bullmark]

I would be afraid to give any advice
whats on the label on the 2-8-4

The label simply states the dosage amount of 1 tablespoon per gallon at a rate of once per month.
I think I’ll give em another full week to acclimate to the flip and then top dress.

 

[GreezzyGuy]

good read

Phosphorus Uptake by Plants: From Soil to Cell

P is an important plant macronutrient, making up about 0.2% of a plant's dry weight. It is a component of key molecules such as nucleic acids, phospholipid

academic.oup.com