Famine

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Ukraine is not a Nato country so Nato should not get involved, no matter how much America pushes it to. And let's be frank if it was two African shitholes then unless its gold , oil or diamonds America wouldn't care. But this is Russia and a proxy war on its border- hell yea lets cue Rocky and get them commies! Might help Bidens poll numbers and get Americans talking about Russia rather than the problems at home- its classic politics.
Ukraine is just another in a long list of countries who have called parts of that same land something else. Land won't be eliminated nor will the people, they are all east Slavs aren't they? Imaginary lines on maps in the African states and the Slav's get rubbed out and redrawn all throughout history. It's very normal and very human sadly.

i will agree with you that we are pretty selective about who deserves our outrage...i would have liked to see this kind of involvement
in several other conflicts...but half of them involve russia. Syria, Georgia, Crimea (i know thats part of Ukraine, but we should have helped them then...) and others that don't involve russia as well, darfur, chad, sudan, libya...but, when we do something, we're accused of empire building, and regime toppling....so apparently America is evil if we do, and evil if we don't....

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I love that man.

Unlike Trudeau, Singh knows what it’s like to have struggles in life. He is articulate, highly intelligent and empathetic. What great qualities these are for a leader.

Sadly though, he will never become PM.

The liberals ran left of them, however, his is no cypher and he has Justin firmly by the balls, he has a lot of leverage with a minority government. Minority governments keep them on their toes and honest, some of our biggest social policy changes were with leftwing minority governments. Allowing the conservatives to form a minority under Harper left a sour taste in everybody's mouth and should not be repeated. As a left leaning liberal, I don't mind Liberal/NDP minority governments at all.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

i will agree with you that we are pretty selective about who deserves our outrage...i would have liked to see this kind of involvement
in several other conflicts...but half of them involve russia. Syria, Georgia, Crimea (i know thats part of Ukraine, but we should have helped them then...) and others that don't involve russia as well, darfur, chad, sudan, libya...but, when we do something, we're accused of empire building, and regime toppling....so apparently America is evil if we do, and evil if we don't....

This is an anti imperialist war against Putin and the resurrection of greater Russia/USSR. America and several dozen allies are supporting the fight for freedom by a liberal democracy, that has the overwhelming support of it's population and a responsible government. It is an imperialist war of aggression that broke international law and threatened NATO and it's allies, the objective of the Russians appears to be increasingly genocidal, they want to exterminate Ukrainians and their culture, while stealing their land. To stand by and do nothing would be a foolish, amoral or cowardly and one cannot practice any other other virtues without courage.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

This is an anti imperialist war against Putin and the resurrection of greater Russia/USSR. America and several dozen allies are supporting the fight for freedom by a liberal democracy, that has the overwhelming support of it's population and a responsible government. It is an imperialist war of aggression that broke international law and threatened NATO and it's allies, the objective of the Russians appears to be increasingly genocidal, they want to exterminate Ukrainians and their culture, while stealing their land. To stand by and do nothing would be a foolish, amoral or cowardly and one cannot practice any other other virtues without courage.

can't the same thing be said about other conflicts? none of them deserved any help? weren't we negligent in at least a few cases where we should have stepped in and stopped genocide, stopped oppression? what is it that makes the Ukrainian struggle special? is it really because it's an existential struggle for democratic freedom around the world? or is it because those being oppressed are white christian people, who are not only being oppressed, but are being oppressed by one of our two biggest enemies in the entire world?
in many cases, that's the only major difference i can see...
while we've spent about 12 billion in Syria on aid, it's been spread out over 12 years, and none of it was weaponry, or even body armour and helmets, it's all been food and medical aid...so what is the difference between Syria and Ukraine? both are oppressed by russia, both are fighting for freedom, but the roles of russia and the U.S. are reversed...the russians support the government that is in place, even though they're terrorist supporting ISIL, while America is supporting the rebels who want the terrorists out of their country....
while in Ukraine, the Americans are supporting the government in place, and the russians are "supporting" separatist rebels who they say are threatened by all the nazis in the Ukrainian government...the Ukrainian government that has a jewish president, and had a 2 term jewish prime minister till recently...which as we all know, is how nazis hide, inside jewish led governments
but the question remains, why is Ukraine deserving of more help than Syria?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

can't the same thing be said about other conflicts? none of them deserved any help? weren't we negligent in at least a few cases where we should have stepped in and stopped genocide, stopped oppression? what is it that makes the Ukrainian struggle special? is it really because it's an existential struggle for democratic freedom around the world? or is it because those being oppressed are white christian people, who are not only being oppressed, but are being oppressed by one of our two biggest enemies in the entire world?
in many cases, that's the only major difference i can see...
while we've spent about 12 billion in Syria on aid, it's been spread out over 12 years, and none of it was weaponry, or even body armour and helmets, it's all been food and medical aid...so what is the difference between Syria and Ukraine? both are oppressed by russia, both are fighting for freedom, but the roles of russia and the U.S. are reversed...the russians support the government that is in place, even though they're terrorist supporting ISIL, while America is supporting the rebels who want the terrorists out of their country....
while in Ukraine, the Americans are supporting the government in place, and the russians are "supporting" separatist rebels who they say are threatened by all the nazis in the Ukrainian government...the Ukrainian government that has a jewish president, and had a 2 term jewish prime minister till recently...which as we all know, is how nazis hide, inside jewish led governments
but the question remains, why is Ukraine deserving of more help than Syria?

There are a lot of differences, between this war and others, bigotry is only one factor, being on Europe's doorstep is the biggest one for NATO. It is a clear unambiguous violation of international law and several agreements and promises Russia made to Ukraine backed up by NATO members and Ukraine is a NATO ally, like Finland. It is a war of imperialist aggression and genocide and these base motives have been made clear by Russian government officials and mouth pieces. Syria was a civil war and many such conflicts are like that or close with many grey areas. It's also in support of liberal democracy and a threat to Russian autocracy, imperialism, the current regime and could be an existential threat to Russia itself, as currently constituted. Besides it's a good opportunity to fuck over Vlad and destroy Russia's ability to project power onto it's neighbors, while crippling it's ability to generate new conventional military forces or equipment for them.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

There are a lot of differences, between this war and others, bigotry is only one factor, being on Europe's doorstep is the biggest one for NATO. It is a clear unambiguous violation of international law and several agreements and promises Russia made to Ukraine backed up by NATO members and Ukraine is a NATO ally, like Finland. It is a war of imperialist aggression and genocide and these base motives have been made clear by Russian government officials and mouth pieces. Syria was a civil war and many such conflicts are like that or close with many grey areas. It's also in support of liberal democracy and a threat to Russian autocracy, imperialism, the current regime and could be an existential threat to Russia itself, as currently constituted. Besides it's a good opportunity to fuck over Vlad and destroy Russia's ability to project power onto it's neighbors, while crippling it's ability to generate new conventional military forces or equipment for them.

tell that to a Palestinian kid who is reading the news and wondering why the west helps Ukraine and tells Palestine fuck you...
or the Tigrayan kids whose parents were murdered by Ethiopian forces...while those in the west mostly aren't even aware of a war going on in Ethiopia...
i get what you're saying, but it all sounds like hypocritical shit, no matter who is saying it...what it comes down to is we only back people who can pay us back in some way...if there is no potential benefit to us, our charity and concern are very quickly lost

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

tell that to a Palestinian kid who is reading the news and wondering why the west helps Ukraine and tells Palestine fuck you...
or the Tigrayan kids whose parents were murdered by Ethiopian forces...while those in the west mostly aren't even aware of a war going on in Ethiopia...
i get what you're saying, but it all sounds like hypocritical shit, no matter who is saying it...what it comes down to is we only back people who can pay us back in some way...if there is no potential benefit to us, our charity and concern are very quickly lost

At one point or another, Canada and the USA feed most of the countries on earth during times of crises or need, we did this while places like Russia and China starved theirs. We are not perfect, but like democracy, we are better than the alternatives and we are not the world's policeman either. The point is we are getting better all the time, liberal democracies have the capacity to change and grow while responding to the needs of their citizens and technologically driven social change. We also have to pick our fights and fight those we can win the most with the minimal amount of cost, Ukraine presents such a problem/opportunity. Win the war without nuking everybody, break Vlad's army and there are a world of new geopolitical possibilities, Vlad was and is a major pain in the ass to everybody, even Russians.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

At one point or another, Canada and the USA feed most of the countries on earth during times of crises or need, we did this while places like Russia and China starved theirs. We are not perfect, but like democracy, we are better than the alternatives and we are not the world's policeman either. The point is we are getting better all the time, liberal democracies have the capacity to change and grow while responding to the needs of their citizens and technologically driven social change. We also have to pick our fights and fight those we can win the most with the minimal amount of cost, Ukraine presents such a problem/opportunity. Win the war without nuking everybody, break Vlad's army and there are a world of new geopolitical possibilities, Vlad was and is a major pain in the ass to everybody, even Russians.

you're right, but i'm feeling the decay of society pretty keenly today. it's very hard to see the sunshine behinds clouds of pollution and smoke from russians shelling civilian targets in Ukraine...i'm going to go ride my scooter to the river and then jump in...i may come back up...

 

[HGCC]

I am enjoying the discussion fellows, it's inspiring.

I imagine the convo taking place in context this song.

 

[captainmorgan]

France is a major agricultural producer, #7 in the world. They had a extremely dry winter and spring heatwave to add to a drought, the ground water is dropping so much that the ground level has lowered enough to damage buildings. The crops are suffering badly and crop yields will be much lower this year, wheat is only half as tall as normal, this is happening all over the planet, the famine will kick in this winter.

 

[captainmorgan]

Food and fuel riots in Ecuador.

 

[Lucky Luke]

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

send that to putin, he's the one that needs to see it

 

[Lucky Luke]

send that to putin, he's the one that needs to see it

Yes, ill just pop over and get him to watch it over dinner...I'm sure he is aware as its a part of his sphere of influence.

Interesting how Israel is not getting involved i thought and why they are not and i didnt realise that so many of the Arab and oil states are not really getting involved either.

 

[Rob Roy]

Price of chicken feed is up and with inflation / fuel prices still high, I expect the price won't go down.

I've been thinking of raising some insects for their larvae on a small scale to supplement ckicken feed. Small flock these days, so maybe there will be enough left over so I can eat some myself.

 

[captainmorgan]

The predictions I'm seeing say .5 billion people will be in famine by the end of this year and 1.5 billion will be by the end of next year.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Yes, ill just pop over and get him to watch it over dinner...I'm sure he is aware as its a part of his sphere of influence.

Interesting how Israel is not getting involved i thought and why they are not and i didnt realise that so many of the Arab and oil states are not really getting involved either.

Israel doesn't get involved in anything that doesn't directly benefit israel.

https://time.com/6155374/arab-world-reactions-ukraine/

"In the early days of the Russian invasion, it was clear that Arab states wanted to keep their options as open as possible, and not alienate Moscow if they didn’t need to. That doesn’t make them pro-Moscow; it means they assess that the world as becoming more multi-polar, and that the West had not given much indication that there would be much of a cost to trying to be “creatively neutral.”

that is one way of looking at it, another way is that the Arab states are shitty opportunists with no loyalty to long term allies, if they can make a dollar dealing with someone else....
and i'd rather the country come to a screeching, squealing, rusty halt than grant legitimacy to MBS...

 

[Lucky Luke]

I wonder if America, like Russia, is using this world famine for their own goals? I suppose they would be. The do like to destabilize governments and countries and hungry populations and countries in turmoil are ripe for controlling.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Israel doesn't get involved in anything that doesn't directly benefit israel.

https://time.com/6155374/arab-world-reactions-ukraine/

"In the early days of the Russian invasion, it was clear that Arab states wanted to keep their options as open as possible, and not alienate Moscow if they didn’t need to. That doesn’t make them pro-Moscow; it means they assess that the world as becoming more multi-polar, and that the West had not given much indication that there would be much of a cost to trying to be “creatively neutral.”

that is one way of looking at it, another way is that the Arab states are shitty opportunists with no loyalty to long term allies, if they can make a dollar dealing with someone else....
and i'd rather the country come to a screeching, squealing, rusty halt than grant legitimacy to MBS...

Agree, Israel doesn't care about anyone but itself. But with the massive amounts of money, weapons and things America gives them it's very telling who controls who.

 

[captainmorgan]

Excessive heat and drought in Italy is threatening the crops in the most productive part of the country, they are saying that if they don't get some rain in the next two weeks it might be a total loss. The largest river in the region has dried up and no longer flows into the sea.