The REAL White Widow

python_thrust

python_thrust

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I would like to share a story that was told me from an old time dutch toker in Amsterdam.

I met him when i was in the Dam 1 month ago (i'm italian and i'm there every 6 months).

I want to say first that he shared this infos with me without trying to sell anything (it isn't USA :) ).

Many growers here answer to the question:" who has the reald deal white widow?" with the story about shantibaba that was working with Arjan for the Greenhouse seeds/coffeeS and then he brought the cut to Mr.Nice seedbank and made the Black Widow.

So many of you are saying that the real deal is Black Widow....wrong.

Here what i've learned:

There was a grower during the first years of the '80 that was working in a garden shop in the little city of
Arnhem, the Nederlands.

He loved to grow Weed at home, and was very skilled, his name was Ingemar.

His friends gave him the seeds they brought back from different nations they travelled, to make a hybrid that was good to be grown outdoors in Holland.

He created the legendary strain, Arnhem's Wonder (the original WW name).

Due to his increasing popularity and knock out potency, a rich weed businessman (Arjan) buyed the plant parents.

He renamed it white widow to let the people think that the hybrid was something developed by GH.

When Shanti went away from GH, he didn't took anything with him, this story is bullshit.

It seems that GH doesn't have the ww parents since '2000...

The original Arnhem's Wonder cut is still floating around in the meridional area.

There is (told by this dutch guy) only one strain that is close to it: Whitewalker Kush from DNA.

He is absolutely sure that they are using Ingemar's real cut crossed to a kush.

Also the effect of original ww are not exact: Black Widow and other fakes provide a super narcotic stone...
Arnhem's wonder provides a super spacy/heady type of high.

His exact description of high:"the high is like you are blocked in a happy state of mind, but at the same time you can't think to anything, you just keep on smiling"

Regards guys
 
canna_420

canna_420

Well-Known Member
python_thrust said:
Hi all,

I would like to share a story that was told me from an old time dutch toker in Amsterdam.

I met him when i was in the Dam 1 month ago (i'm italian and i'm there every 6 months).

I want to say first that he shared this infos with me without trying to sell anything (it isn't USA :) ).

Many growers here answer to the question:" who has the reald deal white widow?" with the story about shantibaba that was working with Arjan for the Greenhouse seeds/coffeeS and then he brought the cut to Mr.Nice seedbank and made the Black Widow.

So many of you are saying that the real deal is Black Widow....wrong.

Here what i've learned:

There was a grower during the first years of the '80 that was working in a garden shop in the little city of
Arnhem, the Nederlands.

He loved to grow Weed at home, and was very skilled, his name was Ingemar.

His friends gave him the seeds they brought back from different nations they travelled, to make a hybrid that was good to be grown outdoors in Holland.

He created the legendary strain, Arnhem's Wonder (the original WW name).

Due to his increasing popularity and knock out potency, a rich weed businessman (Arjan) buyed the plant parents.

He renamed it white widow to let the people think that the hybrid was something developed by GH.

When Shanti went away from GH, he didn't took anything with him, this story is bullshit.

It seems that GH doesn't have the ww parents since '2000...

The original Arnhem's Wonder cut is still floating around in the meridional area.

There is (told by this dutch guy) only one strain that is close to it: Whitewalker Kush from DNA.

He is absolutely sure that they are using Ingemar's real cut crossed to a kush.

Also the effect of original ww are not exact: Black Widow and other fakes provide a super narcotic stone...
Arnhem's wonder provides a super spacy/heady type of high.

His exact description of high:"the high is like you are blocked in a happy state of mind, but at the same time you can't think to anything, you just keep on smiling"

Regards guys
Click to expand...
That would be credible if Arjan wasn't a known liar and Ingenmars own story matched.

Year's ago when he ran white widow web and deshaman he had a page on "father of the whi widow". He states he found the seeds in hash. (Yes hash)
https://sjamaan.com/forum/threads/the-father-of-white-widow.4/
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
You can get seeds from ingemar he sells em still idk if its original or whatever fuck knows i dont think any seedbanks have the original tbh over the years they all lost the parental stock supposedly im lucky enough i still have some old widow seeds in my stash il pop one day used to be a fave strain of mine and the first i ever grew
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
T

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
88 arnems wonder clone was acquired by arjan. Arjan decided to rename that clone white widow for the purpose of entering it in the cup as their own creation so they could claim complete credit for it. Shantibaba used that same clone that had had work done to its genetic line for 6-7 years by ingmar for optimum resin production, from which the clone was selected in 1988 by ingmar before shanti even got to holland. What shanti did infact was take that old but newly named clone and created a seed version of it by working a duplicate father. The seeds when first released were never ever a f1 hybrid of a Brazilian x south indian but actually a copy many time back crossed father mated back to the 88 clone ingmar owned. The 88 clone was being used in many hybrids that were being sold as coffee shop flower well before any seedline was created. The 88 ingmar clone has been used by many old duch seed companies in other hybrids an has been out there in the public eye as the base of all white widow lines. Seed versions of that clone were made. If anyone thinks this is rubbish well then produce the parent plants that went into the first white widow seedline and historic documentation of other work that may have been done with the parents. The father to the first seedline was a ibl 88 Ingmar clone copy mated to the 88 ingmar clone mother, which created a seed version of the 88 ingmar clone, which they conveniently named white widow to cut out any credit to ingmar..fact. I am sick of people talking bs now lets see this imaginary Brazilian p1 and this imaginary landrace south indian hybrid. There are plenty of old pictures but conveniently none of these p1 parents. Because they obviously never existed to create the white widow. Decades later and still all we get is talk or empty barrels making noise, produce the parents, the 88 ingmar cut has been produced for decades.
 
T

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
The original seeds that ingmar used and bred for 6-7 years for optimum resin production to finaly select his 88 clone came from hash. Deep chunk seeds were found in hash too
 
T

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
Hey i was wondering if someone knows how to read those genotype reports an the phylos galaxy. Ive had a go looking at various white widows an black widow an the majority of results keep showing the same thing. Just wanted to know am i reading it right if someone can help. What im seeing is south americans an kerlans are most furthest away an least likley to be related, but it keeps showing up with them close to lots of diffrent OG types wich i guess must mean the relation is some afghan, kush type indica from the hash making areas, an some show close relation to the shit strain an some skunk#1. From what im seeing it does seem to show that its mostly genetics from the hash making world an perhaps its been put to skunk an the developed to make the seed versions. Seems to contradict the shanti story completely. But maybe im reading the results an links wrong, so someone please help.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
TheWholeTruth said:
Hey i was wondering if someone knows how to read those genotype reports an the phylos galaxy. Ive had a go looking at various white widows an black widow an the majority of results keep showing the same thing. Just wanted to know am i reading it right if someone can help. What im seeing is south americans an kerlans are most furthest away an least likley to be related, but it keeps showing up with them close to lots of diffrent OG types wich i guess must mean the relation is some afghan, kush type indica from the hash making areas, an some show close relation to the shit strain an some skunk#1. From what im seeing it does seem to show that its mostly genetics from the hash making world an perhaps its been put to skunk an the developed to make the seed versions. Seems to contradict the shanti story completely. But maybe im reading the results an links wrong, so someone please help.
Click to expand...
Well ingemar Long claimed to have found or made the clone shanti definitely brought it into seedform however maybe lends more credence to him after all the kerala used in ww wasnt pure maybe whatever they used to shorten the bloom time on that is whats showing up as afghani genetics this is a pure guess i could be totally wrong just putting it out there
 
T

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
conor c said:
Well ingemar Long claimed to have found or made the clone shanti definitely brought it into seedform however maybe lends more credence to him after all the kerala used in ww wasnt pure maybe whatever they used to shorten the bloom time on that is whats showing up as afghani genetics this is a pure guess i could be totally wrong just putting it out there
Click to expand...
Im not sure how to read those phylos things properly, so i could be understanding it totaly wrong. But from what im understanding its saying kerlan in full or in part isnt in the widow an would be ideal to cross to widow as they have no relation. Over the years ive worked with a few pure landrace brazilian sativas an crossed to something suposedly 50 % sativa an 50% indica would normaly come out very sativa. Those brazilians can be very wild an plants in kerla can be very wild to an both areas give plants that can be very long flowering. An if the brazilian sativa x kerlan hybrid is correct it should be 75% sativa an 25% indica not 50/50 as 50%sativa-50%indica would mean the kerlan was pure indica. An i dont think anything fully indica would do very well year after year in kerla. This south american x kerlan (wether hybrid or pure) seem to show as not really being a possibility as i understand those results. This why i wanted others who understand those results to take alook please an see if they can figure out whats what.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
TheWholeTruth said:
Im not sure how to read those phylos things properly, so i could be understanding it totaly wrong. But from what im understanding its saying kerlan in full or in part isnt in the widow an would be ideal to cross to widow as they have no relation. Over the years ive worked with a few pure landrace brazilian sativas an crossed to something suposedly 50 % sativa an 50% indica would normaly come out very sativa. Those brazilians can be very wild an plants in kerla can be very wild to an both areas give plants that can be very long flowering. An if the brazilian sativa x kerlan hybrid is correct it should be 75% sativa an 25% indica not 50/50 as 50%sativa-50%indica would mean the kerlan was pure indica. An i dont think anything fully indica would do very well year after year in kerla. This south american x kerlan (wether hybrid or pure) seem to show as not really being a possibility as i understand those results. This why i wanted others who understand those results to take alook please an see if they can figure out whats what.
Click to expand...
Well heard the rumour for years that the south indian hybrid used in ww was a hybrid actually made in india by a farmer over there but who really knows yeah the cluster things confusing as heck imo phylos dont make it easy and thats very strange the ones its saying contains 0 keralan influences very weird indeed hope someone with a better knowledge with interpretation of phylos chimes in
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
I had a look on mns and found this worth a look

The S.Indian hybrid

Hello Shanti and all, I've never known much about the S. Indian hybrid used in BW. Can you tell me anything about origins and peculiarities of this strain? Thanx in advance
mrnice.nl

So what about the Brazilian sativa?

I loved reading the story of the Kerala hybrid so ofcourse i got curious about BW's further ancestry, even if might not be such an entertaining story as the Kerala mountains story, i would very much like to hear it. One do want to know the parents of ones girlfriends ;-) Anyone have any info...
mrnice.nl

This obviously what shanti says on it
 
Antidote Man

Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
What has always had my head spinning is Shanti, in his interviews he says "I don't trust anyone". It seems to me that someone who legitimately doesn't trust others wouldn't say it.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
Antidote Man said:
What has always had my head spinning is Shanti, in his interviews he says "I don't trust anyone". It seems to me that someone who legitimately doesn't trust others wouldn't say it.
Click to expand...
Yeah the only guy who is more secretive is kc brains but at least he is honest about not realeasing full lineages and always has been
 
Antidote Man

Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
conor c said:
Yeah the only guy who is more secretive is kc brains but at least he is honest about not realeasing full lineages and always has been
Click to expand...
New info to me, I have some KC Brains seeds, not many. He doesn't appear to be a popular guy in the seed world anymore. Or maybe the market is just so flooded that some of the old school people get lost in the background..
 
T

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
If only someone could find the old greenhouse coffee shop menus from the first couple of years the first one opened. I'm sure it was before shanti even joined them. Think it was around 92/93. I'm sure people might be a bit surprised at some of the strains on the menu an some of the parents used to make them. I did have one long ago but it ended up going walkabouts.
 
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