Why aren't fabric bags cone shaped.

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
Those look great for drainage, I'm just wondering if it would be an open invite for extra fungus gnats in organics. I don't know, it's something I'd like to find out.
Maybe set them on a yellow sticky?.. they stay sticky even after wet, but I don't really know how many cycles you could do that and have them still be affective... may have to change them out every now and then.
 

yummy fur

Well-Known Member
These guys can tell you that I like to experiment as much as the next guy, but I make sure I've done one thing first, and then document my findings, change things up and do it over again.. sometimes it might take a year to come to a conclusion, but your thought process needs to be static.
Exactly, it takes a long long time to do proper testing that can survive peer review. But that's not necessary to see that you would not be able to grow anything of any substance in a one litre pot of substrate that did not have roots coming out and going into a reservoir. But the mini pyramids will enable me to speed up doing the types of tests that are useful to me.

Because then he can't shill for the mini pyramid company...duh. His sponsor demands results. Jeesh.
Up until now I did not think you were a fuckwit troll, my bad.
 

FirstCavApache64

Well-Known Member
I'll get over the pain of dissapointing you some how. If you look through this thread and count how many times you use the words mini pyramid and come to a different conclusion than I did, you're smoking some good shit. You argued with anyone and everyone that tried to explain reality to you so being a fuckwit to you is a badge of honor I'll pin on gladly. Keep knocking those 1 liter auto monsters with deficient leaves out of the park and arguing with guys that run commercial grow ops. It makes you look really smart :bigjoint:.
 

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
OP.. Listen man. ... Unless you have some sort of miracle discovery that nobody has discovered before, post your results. Otherwise, you're gonna get some shit about it. I've intentionally fed in 11.5 ph to a 5.1 plant to see if it would recover and stabilize at mid 6's... it did. I proved it. I've intentionally light burned plants to see how close I can get my lights. I've tried bigger pots and less plants, and more plants and smaller pots, no calmag vs. a whole run with, and Mammoth P a whole run vs. not. So.... unless you have proven results, you're just asking for a jab at your "idea" that nobody in the world of horticulture has ever tried before. All you gotta do is clone a mother, plant them in different shaped pots, and post your results.... it's not that hard. If you can prove that better root and plant growth can be achieved with a mini pyramid, then you might get a better reception on the concept. Otherwise, you're gonna be looked at as a "flat earther". But please have a "control" (clones) because seeds just don't grow the same. I'd be interested to see the results. But, I got a feeling that they're all gonna grow the same, and have similar yields.
 
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OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Square fabric pot, milk crates (the pot fits exactly in the crate) and square metal tomato cages are working well for me. One of the drawbacks of square fabric bags is they don’t hold their cubical shape very well if ya move them around…the crate solves that. The crate also offers great attachment points for LST - I use binder clips and pipe cleaners. Grab the flower bearing branches from first and second node when young and stretch them horizontally to the edge of the crate and tie them down. They will make a 90 degree turn upwards in a day, and you now have a fully exposed cola that otherwise would been inside the canopy.

the milk crates give ya a little airspace for circulation between the bottom of the fabric bag and on whatever the crate happens to Sit. I stack the crates with the plants on another crate to increase the airflow.

the tomato cages give ya 2 options: keep the footprint of the plant inside the column (if you are limited in lateral space), or pull all the branches outside the crate and let them spread out. I chose the latter for the grow at my GFs house.

If I were growing in a tent I’d arrange the crates about a foot from each other in a square pattern (one crate at each corner of a larger square footprint). I’d build a PVC frame the same footprint of the larger square formed by the 4 crates, and use cup hooks and string to create a SCROG net above the plants, zip tie it to the tops of the tomato cages, and then let them grow up to the horizontal string lattice and start weaving them into the net. but, alas, I don’t have room for a tent.

im using round fabric pots in milk crates with tomato cages at the GFs house, and just the milk crates and square fabric bags (without tomato cages) at my house. both are working well.View attachment 5136566View attachment 5136567View attachment 5136568View attachment 5136569View attachment 5136570View attachment 5136571View attachment 5136572View attachment 5136573View attachment 5136574View attachment 5136575
What are the LED Tubes your running in the T5's?
 

Retired engineer

Well-Known Member
I have several airpots I’ve used in the past and loved them. Decided to go with larger sfabric pots
here is A pic of the protective sleeves. I got two from Amazon, and two from HydroBuilder. I like them a lot; less heat, less power consumption, more penetration. It may be confirmation bias, but I think they do a great job, and since I’m running normal T5s in the six light fixture the plants are seeing a broader spectrum of light. I put them on the back wall because the plants are closest to that fixture and probably benefit for the lower amount of heat the LEDs throw off.

im Looking at T5 replacement LED bulbs for veg to use on the next grow as well.

ya didn’t ask, but I also have a specific approach on what is burning in the pair of two foot 2 light T5s firing in from the sides. During veg, they burn 6.500k T5, then I switch to 3,500k during flower. For the last couple of weeks, I replace them with 10,000k bulbs that run for 15 min/hr during the middle of the lighting period. I start them off at 15 min/hr for the mid point (one cycle), then ramp that up gradually to 15 min/hr for the middle 4 hrs of the lighting period. I scorched a few plants in the past finding this sweet spot…15 min/hr a few times a day is all they can handle without getting crispy…

I’ll search thru the archives and dig out pics of some plants I grew in airpots…they really work well. I have 8 of them laying about here somewhere, and I might pull them out of retirement just for grins…

8898916A-AB53-4CF2-8589-BAD0DCC88CBA.jpeg
 

yummy fur

Well-Known Member
OP.. Listen man. ... Unless you have some sort of miracle discovery that nobody has discovered before, post your results. Otherwise, you're gonna get some shit about it. I've intentionally fed in 11.5 ph to a 5.1 plant to see if it would recover and stabilize at mid 6's... it did. I proved it. I've intentionally light burned plants to see how close I can get my lights. I've tried bigger pots and less plants, and more plants and smaller pots, no calmag vs. a whole run with, and Mammoth P a whole run vs. not. So.... unless you have proven results, you're just asking for a jab at your "idea" that nobody in the world of horticulture has ever tried before. All you gotta do is clone a mother, plant them in different shaped pots, and post your results.... it's not that hard. If you can prove that better root and plant growth can be achieved with a mini pyramid, then you might get a better reception on the concept. Otherwise, you're gonna be looked at as a "flat earther". But please have a "control" (clones) because seeds just don't grow the same. I'd be interested to see the results. But, I got a feeling that they're all gonna grow the same, and have similar yields.
That's a good post, a man after my own heart, I totally get that and I have discovered quite often that common knowledge is wrong, there is nothing like knowledge gained first hand, you can have the whole world rail against you, but once you seen it and done it and you know something is correct then that all that matters. I'm also going to be using my mini grows to do different nutrient checks.

The different shaped fabric bags idea, came about because I was wondering why the one litre pyramid is so good, how what does it do differently and after noticing that if the root tips emerge from a slightly larger hole in the side of the pyramid, then it it completely covered in that superfine downy fur that roots in rude health get. Then it suddenly dawned on me what is special about these plugs that'd different to soil and that is that all those tiny holes in the pyramid would be all through it, and they do not collapse, you can move it around or flush it out with heaps of water if you like and you do not disturb the superfine hairs.

Then I though and what good are the hairs, well they would increase the efficiency greatly, so that must be why the plant does not seem to be limited by the size of the roots that it can form, because if you tried to grow in a one litre pot, you could grow a nice little auto but you'd expect it to be pretty tiny.

So at first my initial thoughts on the fabric bag is that it requires bigger space for the roots because it is less efficient, so I'm thinking how to get that efficiency into a soil mix. How can you make soil more physically stable. I was thinking some sort of insert into the bag like a firm plastic mesh at the bottom with a spindle and then you have two or three flat mesh discs like records that go over that, and as you fill the bag up you place another plastic mesh disc on. This would just be a starting point, may or may not be practical. Then I was thinking what about if you could, after mixing your soil, then mix some sort of binder into the soil that kept it all in place, sort of like the binder they use on the plugs. Whether a substance like this is possible only a chemical engineers could tell.

But these idea are not the point, the point is that doing the plugs have made me realise that there is much improvement possible in a smaller space and that maybe just maybe if one thinks about it there's something that can make that difference. So then while what I'm thinking about is how to develop that superfine root fuzz with soil. Hey here's an idea that just occurred to me, what about if there were little root sanctuaries you couple put in your pot, for example how about golf ball size hollow plastic balls with covered in holes, roots might grow into it and have that little space. All idea need a gestation period, but my gut reaction is there's some sort of mechanical think you could do to soil that would improve production. Or maybe not.

Peace.
 

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
So then while what I'm thinking about is how to develop that superfine root fuzz with soil.
“superfine root fuzz”. That’s a new one to me. You mean mycorrhizae?

What exactly are you trying to improve? You can’t fix something that isn’t broken.

Most sub par results are caused by grower error not some made up lack of some super growing medium or container.
 

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
That's a good post, a man after my own heart, I totally get that and I have discovered quite often that common knowledge is wrong, there is nothing like knowledge gained first hand, you can have the whole world rail against you, but once you seen it and done it and you know something is correct then that all that matters. I'm also going to be using my mini grows to do different nutrient checks.

The different shaped fabric bags idea, came about because I was wondering why the one litre pyramid is so good, how what does it do differently and after noticing that if the root tips emerge from a slightly larger hole in the side of the pyramid, then it it completely covered in that superfine downy fur that roots in rude health get. Then it suddenly dawned on me what is special about these plugs that'd different to soil and that is that all those tiny holes in the pyramid would be all through it, and they do not collapse, you can move it around or flush it out with heaps of water if you like and you do not disturb the superfine hairs.

Then I though and what good are the hairs, well they would increase the efficiency greatly, so that must be why the plant does not seem to be limited by the size of the roots that it can form, because if you tried to grow in a one litre pot, you could grow a nice little auto but you'd expect it to be pretty tiny.

So at first my initial thoughts on the fabric bag is that it requires bigger space for the roots because it is less efficient, so I'm thinking how to get that efficiency into a soil mix. How can you make soil more physically stable. I was thinking some sort of insert into the bag like a firm plastic mesh at the bottom with a spindle and then you have two or three flat mesh discs like records that go over that, and as you fill the bag up you place another plastic mesh disc on. This would just be a starting point, may or may not be practical. Then I was thinking what about if you could, after mixing your soil, then mix some sort of binder into the soil that kept it all in place, sort of like the binder they use on the plugs. Whether a substance like this is possible only a chemical engineers could tell.

But these idea are not the point, the point is that doing the plugs have made me realise that there is much improvement possible in a smaller space and that maybe just maybe if one thinks about it there's something that can make that difference. So then while what I'm thinking about is how to develop that superfine root fuzz with soil. Hey here's an idea that just occurred to me, what about if there were little root sanctuaries you couple put in your pot, for example how about golf ball size hollow plastic balls with covered in holes, roots might grow into it and have that little space. All idea need a gestation period, but my gut reaction is there's some sort of mechanical think you could do to soil that would improve production. Or maybe not.

Peace.
man you’re full of great ideas arent you? maybe you should switch to soil and learn the medium first because rootspace is not really a problem in soil and putting a plastic ball in the pots just robs you from more medium. the soil in organic soil in particular is not only the medium but also the nutrient for the plant so why would i wanna use less medium. for that little more air content i’m switching to coco in my organic living soils but thats about it.

you discs idea would also way overcomplicate to fill and empty pots. would make a real mess. and again i dont see a problem with the stability of the medium to begin with. a non existent problem solved by you again.

i’m not gonna get into the fuzz thing because i’m not sure what that fuzz is but i get that fuzzy roots in every pot i run, it may be mycorrhizal fungi as twentyeight put it it may be some other shit i really never looked into it much but again before solving the problems of a medium you dont use maybe start growing in it first because i feel like you have a hydro mindset and applying those principals in an organic soil setup doesnt solve the problems it doesnt have.

also another way you can structure your experiment could be: you can grow 30-40 from seed for each group (pyramid and standart pot) grow them out side by side in identical conditions, weigh each side at the end and take the average of the dry flower weight for each group as your yield. replicate that a couple of times and you may end up with statistically significant results by doing so. but i’d really do clones. thats just more scientific.
 

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
That's a good post, a man after my own heart, I totally get that and I have discovered quite often that common knowledge is wrong, there is nothing like knowledge gained first hand, you can have the whole world rail against you, but once you seen it and done it and you know something is correct then that all that matters. I'm also going to be using my mini grows to do different nutrient checks.

The different shaped fabric bags idea, came about because I was wondering why the one litre pyramid is so good, how what does it do differently and after noticing that if the root tips emerge from a slightly larger hole in the side of the pyramid, then it it completely covered in that superfine downy fur that roots in rude health get. Then it suddenly dawned on me what is special about these plugs that'd different to soil and that is that all those tiny holes in the pyramid would be all through it, and they do not collapse, you can move it around or flush it out with heaps of water if you like and you do not disturb the superfine hairs.

Then I though and what good are the hairs, well they would increase the efficiency greatly, so that must be why the plant does not seem to be limited by the size of the roots that it can form, because if you tried to grow in a one litre pot, you could grow a nice little auto but you'd expect it to be pretty tiny.

So at first my initial thoughts on the fabric bag is that it requires bigger space for the roots because it is less efficient, so I'm thinking how to get that efficiency into a soil mix. How can you make soil more physically stable. I was thinking some sort of insert into the bag like a firm plastic mesh at the bottom with a spindle and then you have two or three flat mesh discs like records that go over that, and as you fill the bag up you place another plastic mesh disc on. This would just be a starting point, may or may not be practical. Then I was thinking what about if you could, after mixing your soil, then mix some sort of binder into the soil that kept it all in place, sort of like the binder they use on the plugs. Whether a substance like this is possible only a chemical engineers could tell.

But these idea are not the point, the point is that doing the plugs have made me realise that there is much improvement possible in a smaller space and that maybe just maybe if one thinks about it there's something that can make that difference. So then while what I'm thinking about is how to develop that superfine root fuzz with soil. Hey here's an idea that just occurred to me, what about if there were little root sanctuaries you couple put in your pot, for example how about golf ball size hollow plastic balls with covered in holes, roots might grow into it and have that little space. All idea need a gestation period, but my gut reaction is there's some sort of mechanical think you could do to soil that would improve production. Or maybe not.

Peace.
Do.you scatter crystals in therr too or plant them in accordance with particular ley lines lol. Dude this whole thing is nonsense but have fun.
 

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Hiphophippo

Well-Known Member
I like a good challenge but this just seems like a waste when you have a good medium and good wedding schedule and good watering habits you can fully take advantage of any shaped container permitting proper drainage. Try it out I’m not buying any though I have to many extra pots that’ve all done the same thing
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Exactly, it takes a long long time to do proper testing that can survive peer review. But that's not necessary to see that you would not be able to grow anything of any substance in a one litre pot of substrate that did not have roots coming out and going into a reservoir. But the mini pyramids will enable me to speed up doing the types of tests that are useful to me.



Up until now I did not think you were a fuckwit troll, my bad.
You're wrong. You mean YOU can't grow anything of substance.

You come on here calling people names when you're the real fool. Go look in the mirror if you want to see a troll. Nobody cares about your stupid pyramid scheme. Everyone is laughing at you. Get lost loser.


1.5 liter pot.




2.5x2.5 inch nursery pot. 8 ounces of media.


 

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
You're wrong. You mean YOU can't grow anything of substance.

You come on here calling people names when you're the real fool. Go look in the mirror if you want to see a troll. Nobody cares about your stupid pyramid scheme. Everyone is laughing at you. Get lost loser.


1.5 liter pot.




2.5x2.5 inch nursery pot. 8 ounces of media.


wait you grew these not on top of a pyramid?! i’m shocked sir, shocked!
 
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