Slow Growth Auto-Flower Question

[johncanna]

FNG here,

I purchased some auto-flower varieties from MSNL and decided to plant 1 Gelato and 1 Sour Diesel plant. I germinated them using the cup of water/paper towel method (they had a ¼” tap root by day 3) and then planted them in their forever home (5g pot) as I have read that since auto’s set their own schedule, you don’t want to risk transplanting them and stunting the growth. The seeds were planted on 3/8/2022 and as of today they still look like seedlings. I’m a bit shocked as to why they look this way as they still have their cotyledon leaves and have yet to sprout a distinguishable fan leaf. At this point, I’ve read that a canna plant can be classified as a ‘seedling’ for 2-3 weeks and doesn’t enter its vegetative state until its 1st set of true leaves. Since it’s been over 28 days since they’ve been planted I think its safe to say that they aren’t going to go into the ‘flowering’ stage at day 30. The plants look healthy but I’m considering my options – do I cull them or wait it out to see if it bounces back? What could’ve caused them to have such shitty luck? They were grown in a 2x4 tent, proper ventilation and indirect air circulation, 1500w LED, misted every day (if they dried out) with no direct watering, humidifier ran to keep it around 65%, and temperature was between 75-85 degrees.

As of this week, I’ve currently moved them outside to an outdoor pop-up green house as I can’t see investing much electricity in a stunted plant, and I plan on starting another set in the tent to see if I have better luck. Just wanted to ask if anyone has ever seen this before or can offer any advice.

Thanks and Happy Growing!

 

[Jjgrow420]

What's the medium. Looks like junk.
Not being able to transplant autos is a myth.
Seedlings don't need much of.anything in the beg. Low light, low nutes and water.

 

[johncanna]

It's a 'homegrown' blend from my local nursery, upon reading the bag its made out of composted leaves, soil, manure, aged fines, gypsum, mushroom compost, earthworm castings, vermiculite and perlite. I personally think it could use a lot more perlite (probably 1 to 3 ratio) and not sure if I would ever use vermiculite in anything I've grown since it does the polar opposite of perlite and I've heard these plants really don't like to retain moisture and be water logged all that much.

So can you transplant an auto like a photo period plant? Grow it in a seedling plug or solo cup for about 2 weeks, then in a 1G then its forever home? Or can it go straight from the cup to its forever home (5g container).

Now that its been 32 days the plants haven't changed much, so I think they are permanently stunted. What are your thoughts?

 

[twentyeight.threefive]

It's a 'homegrown' blend from my local nursery, upon reading the bag its made out of composted leaves, soil, manure, aged fines, gypsum, mushroom compost, earthworm castings, vermiculite and perlite. I personally think it could use a lot more perlite (probably 1 to 3 ratio) and not sure if I would ever use vermiculite in anything I've grown since it does the polar opposite of perlite and I've heard these plants really don't like to retain moisture and be water logged all that much.

So can you transplant an auto like a photo period plant? Grow it in a seedling plug or solo cup for about 2 weeks, then in a 1G then its forever home? Or can it go straight from the cup to its forever home (5g container).

Now that its been 32 days the plants haven't changed much, so I think they are permanently stunted. What are your thoughts?

Yes you can transplant autos. I go from starter pots to 3 gallons with both my autos and photos.

I'd guess they are pretty stunted for being a month old. Most autoflowers typically start to flower around 3-4 weeks from seed.

 

[johncanna]

Thanks for the info, I'm going to give these guys another week or two to see what happens. It's a bummer that they didn't take off because they look healthy, just aren't showing any sign of growth. A friend of mine gifted me a photo-Sour Diesel Clone that's currently on a 12/12 cycle in my indoor tent so once its harvested (within the next 2 weeks or so) I'm going to pop in a new batch of auto's and try growing them in a seedling tray (iHort Qplugs) then transfer them to their forever home to see if that does anything different. I currently only have 5G fabric pots, do you think that's too big for these plants?

In addendum, I plan on amending the soil when I refill the pots to include a 1 to 3 ratio of perlite.

 

[twentyeight.threefive]

Thanks for the info, I'm going to give these guys another week or two to see what happens. It's a bummer that they didn't take off because they look healthy, just aren't showing any sign of growth. A friend of mine gifted me a photo-Sour Diesel Clone that's currently on a 12/12 cycle in my indoor tent so once its harvested (within the next 2 weeks or so) I'm going to pop in a new batch of auto's and try growing them in a seedling tray (iHort Qplugs) then transfer them to their forever home to see if that does anything different. I currently only have 5G fabric pots, do you think that's too big for these plants?

In addendum, I plan on amending the soil when I refill the pots to include a 1 to 3 ratio of perlite.

5 gallon pots should be fine for soil.

I'd start them in a larger container than a plug. You want them to form a football. A plug to a final container is about the same as starting in the final container.

 

[johncanna]

So do you think I should plant them in like a 18oz solo cup instead then transplant them, or are you thinking like one of those 4" biodegradable peat moss pots (I think they are made by jiffy) where you transplant the pot into its final container?

 

[xtsho]

"misted every day (if they dried out) with no direct watering,"

After 30 days of just misting the top the soil in the rest of the pot could be pretty dry. Roots don't grow into dry soil. Plants need roots to grow.

I don't know if that's the case but I'd dig down well over to the side of one and see what the soil moisture is like.

 

[Budzbuddha]

Im betting its the medium you are using - looks bark heavy. Most “ peat” based mixes offer up to 30% more organic material to plants. Bark has little to no value as a fertilizer.

Look at the purple stem.

I would look into a proper “ seedling / potting soil “ mix and transplant if able.

 

[johncanna]

"misted every day (if they dried out) with no direct watering,"

After 30 days of just misting the top the soil in the rest of the pot could be pretty dry. Roots don't grow into dry soil. Plants need roots to grow.

I don't know if that's the case but I'd dig down well over to the side of one and see what the soil moisture is like.

As of 4/6 I've been watering them like normal now (about 32oz per pot) on the outside as I've heard the roots will grow out to find the moisture.

 

[johncanna]

Im betting its the medium you are using - looks bark heavy. Most “ peat” based mixes offer up to 30% more organic material to plants. Bark has little to no value as a fertilizer.

Look at the purple stem.

I would look into a proper “ seedling / potting soil “ mix and transplant if able.

Thanks, are you thinking something like Fox Farm's Ocean Forest soil? Is the hue of the steam indicative of an issue, or can it be related to the genetics of the plant?

 

[twentyeight.threefive]

Thanks, are you thinking something like Fox Farm's Ocean Forest soil? Is the hue of the steam indicative of an issue, or can it be related to the genetics of the plant?

I just bought two bags of FFOF as my first venture into soil. Never again. Fungus gnats started to appear. As well as the clones I used are looking almost nitrogen toxic and all the stems are very purple.

As far as your starting containers I'd suggest something like a solo cup with proper drainage. The starter pots I use are almost the same volume.

This was a clone from a Root Riot to the normal starter containers I use for seeds.

 

[Budzbuddha]

Thanks, are you thinking something like Fox Farm's Ocean Forest soil? Is the hue of the steam indicative of an issue, or can it be related to the genetics of the plant?

There are other alternatives than FFOF .…. Ran it , put up a thread on it for those that use it …
but recommend Dr. Earth Pot o‘ gold / homegrown - EB Stone Recipe 420 or Bhangi mix - Sunshine #4 - Promix etc.

I’m sure others here have some suggestions .

Quality control and source materials are erratic so consistency is an issue. Only use for FFOF currently is for tea creation via a bubbler.
‘It’s pretty nute dense so it works better as source of brewing a soil drench.

If you can source these you will be much happier. I run layered mixes and this base soil runs circles around FFOF.
Local nurseries tend to have it. Im on a waiting list because local growers have scooped up most of the pallets.

 

[Budzbuddha]

As far as bugs within bags - it happens . Weep holes are sometimes in bags and bugs jump on in or they were introduced from facilities making product.

I always add a few cups of Neem Meal into a bag I just cut open …..mixing and turning over product.
‘You can even get a large 32 gallon tote with lid - dump bag ( s ) into it add your Perlite / EWC / Neem Meal - hand mix it all then you are ready to rock and roll.

 

[twentyeight.threefive]

As far as bugs within bags - it happens . Weep holes are sometimes in bags and bugs jump on in or they were introduced from facilities making product.

I always add a few cups of Neem Meal into a bag I just cut open …..mixing and turning over product.
‘You can even get a large 32 gallon tote with lid - dump bag ( s ) into it add your Perlite / EWC / Neem Meal - hand mix it all then you are ready to rock and roll.

I've never had bad bags of Canna Coco Professional. Springtails only and they aren't bad.

 

[twentyeight.threefive]

FFOF product.

 

[Saint Jimmy74]

Is this the only one that has done this? I have used FFOF for a long time with no issues. Could bugs have gotten in the bag instead of coming from the bag?

 

[johncanna]

Just wanted to provide an update, I ended up terminating the plants. Upon loosely digging around the soil of the plants with my finger I noticed they looked very yellow and brittle. Upon excavation the root structure was pretty pathetic, I think whatever I did to stress them out (perhaps too much misting and not enough direct watering) caused them to permanently stunt their growth. I've already started to germinate a new batch so hopefully I will have better results this time around.

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

Something definately up with watering. This is day 25 or 26. This went straight into a 5 Gal (12x10") of $4 potting mix cut with perlite 75/25 and was watered to runoff day one.

i find many are obsessed with under watering these days. As someone mentioned, roots need moisture. If your medium is aerated properly, overwatering isn't as easy as you would think.


This had roots coming out the bottom at day 19.

 

[johncanna]

Something definately up with watering. This is day 25 or 26. This went straight into a 5 Gal (12x10") of $4 potting mix cut with perlite 75/25 and was watered to runoff day one.

i find many are obsessed with under watering these days. As someone mentioned, roots need moisture. If your medium is aerated properly, overwatering isn't as easy as you would think.
View attachment 5117496

This had roots coming out the bottom at day 19.

Thanks for the info, I'm still germinating my seeds so hoping to pop them in within the next couple of days. Can you recommend your watering schedule and volume?

I was thinking maybe 2-4 oz daily until day 10
Days 10-20 increase to 16oz daily
Day 20 and beyond increase to 32oz daily

I plan on doing a water-feed-water schedule. I've already got the pots filled up (used a 1/3 ratio with perlite) and mixed in some Dr. Earth starter fertilizer in there so that they should have enough nutrients until they reach the flowering stage.