Not sure why would you use candelas as a unit for plant lights?
Stuff getting sidetracked, it doesn't really matter if they compare to 400W HPS or 600W HPS..
It's about the plant shape.
New LED lights stretching
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Stuff getting sidetracked, it doesn't really matter if they compare to 400W HPS or 600W HPS..
It's about the plant shape.
MidnightSun72
Well-Known Member
What wattage are those LEDs? They could be stretching from lack of light.
edit:nm ya exactly what I suspected. Those two lights are not equal to a 600W HPS at all. Probably giving you less than half the PAR.
edit:nm ya exactly what I suspected. Those two lights are not equal to a 600W HPS at all. Probably giving you less than half the PAR.
Shaded420
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? There is no sidetrack. Your plants suck because your lights suck. End of discussion.
500 euros for 125w of LED. That's your problem.
CDN = Canadian Dollars. That LED panel is $720cdn. For 125w. Let that sink in.
Yeah, sit down son. I didn't pay 500e for them.
Shaded420
Well-Known Member
I don't care what you paid for them, son. They are trash lights. Trash lights grow trash plants.
I don't care about your opinion son
Shaded420
Well-Known Member
K. Good luck.I don't care about your opinion son
See you next week in the next thread you make wondering why your plants suck so bad.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Far red stretch doesnt depend on absolute values of far red, it depends on the ratio between 660nm and 730nm, here approx 2:1.
In your leds its hard to see from the pic but it looks a bit more, 3:1 or about 3x as much 660 as 730. This just eyeballin. So relatively better rates in the led. Also remember the blue spike in your led output should also should inhibit stretch. It makes it very hard to see this as something spectrum related cause the science have the led as the least stretchy spectrum.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Youre instincts are right, those numbers are wholly incomparable, the led numbers are ppfd at 12"/300mm and the hps values are total output. Also remember the led has lenses which focus the light right underneath the fixture, this skews the comparison even further. I dont know where the seller gets his hps comparison watt numbers but i call bs on them, this is without a doubt not a 1:3 hps replacement watts light. Its going to be somewhere around or under 2ppf/w (hps is 1.6/w), just basing on the tech theyre using (PC reds with 450nm photon pump) and this at board/bulb, probably worse at the wall as the led lights power supply is probably not better than a standard hps balast.
I think maybe 450-500w to equal the hps in light output.
THIS
Just saw the post, Is this a generic China light or is this from a decent company that at least has its DLC listed? The problem when you don't have a PAR meter or spectrometer trying to verify a lights output with the company's own numbers becomes a challenge. Companies that don't have third party verification or certification usually greatly exaggerate their numbers. If they are DLC listed go to the DLC website and search their tested values that would help inform the right information on the light. Typically 1000w HPS would push out almost 4000 PPF at the source, mid to high end LEDS do 1750-2500 PPF. HPS put out a lot of their far reds as heat.
How many plants do you have in there? how big is the space? How far are the lights from the plants. To me it looks like the beam angle from diode cover might only be pointing straight down and not getting enough coverage in the space. It looks like the pants around the edges are stretching more. I don't think spectrum is your issue although I hate these full spectrum LEDs, tunable spectrums are much better. Did you really pay $700 cdn a light??
grotbags
Well-Known Member
nope
Horselover fat
Well-Known Member
The information on the lights is so weirdly expressed it is meaningless. I assume it's a spot reading at 30cm. Could just as well be made up and it would be as informative. Download a lux meter app and see what it says around the canopy area.
grotbags
Well-Known Member
yer i agree, some manufactures do it right and are honest, but most do not/are not...
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Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Typically a 1000w hps se has about 1700umol at source, 4000 is not right, maybe youre thinking of ppfd and not ppf?
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
It takes 394w of LED using the best Samsung Diodes, and also possible use of Osram Red/Far Red to equal the best 600w HPS bulb. Ill use the Hortilux 600w HPS as an example
Heres how I get my logic.
Consider Gavita says their 645w 1700e is a direct replacement in a 4 x 4 area, for a 1000w HID. Ill use the Hortilux 1000w HPS as an example
The Gavita puts out 1781umol,, its conservatively rated at 1700umol
The 1000w Hortilux HPS is roughly 1880umol. Also consider the first month an HID loses 10% output, and then stabilizes. So that would make the HPS 1692umol.
At 645w for a 16 sq/ft area, that means the Gavita is 40.3w sq/ft. The 1000w Hortilux is 62.5w sq/ft.
So at that rate, an LED is roughly 35.8% more efficient than a 1000w Hortilux.
35.8% of 600w is 394w to equal a 600w HPS using the best bulb. Also assuming one is using the best Diodes available. If not all bets are off.
At that rate it will take about 3 of those 125w LED youre using to equal a 600w Hortilux. IF it has Sumsung Diodes.
One thing I like about Gavita, is they dont overrate their product. They say their 1700e covers a 4 x 4 area in flowering. So I believe them, especially considering I see other manufacturers claiming a 5 x 5 area, and their LED have the same, or close to the same umol, and wattage as the Gavita.
Red/Far Red has also been all but proven to make bigger plants, and a higher yield.
Israel did a test 30 years or more ago about using red infused coloring in the glass, or whatever material they use for their greenhouses.
The grew the exact same flowers from Tissue Culture, and in one greenhouse, they used red infused glass, or whatever material the used. And the other greenhouse they just used clear/normal uncolored. The Red infused greenhouse plants were twice as big as the flowers in the untreated greenhouse.
Also consider Israel is one of the top countries in the world to use greenhouses to grow produce, and have been for decades.
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Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
But this light in question is not based on the best samsung diodes, its quite clearly a phosphored blurple. This tech is on par with standard or de hps as max in photon efficiency.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
If it doesnt use the best diodes, all bets are off.
grotbags
Well-Known Member
what goes around comes around...https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/covering-crops-in-red-plastic-can-boost-yields-up-to-37-percent/
while at first this info is somewhat obvious and is just repeating what we already know (plants flower better under a heavier red spectrum than blue spectrum) its also showing that if you can tailor a spectrum to flower you can do more with less.
these films are doing a similar job to the phosphors on leds, in the films case they are absorbing light in the green photon range and converting it to the red 620 - 660 range, but they are losing photons in the process.
but that doesnt seem to matter, less photons of the right spectrum will outperform more photons of the wrong spectrum.
from my own findings and from everything i have read my hunch is that if you can tailor a perfect flower spectrum you could trim your umol budget buy approx 25-30%, ie 700umol of the perfect flower spectrum will perform(dry weight) the same as 1000umol of the industry standard 4000k + 660nm ect...
however when you have to pay for your photons and you dont get them for free (the sun) and with the current led tech it costs more in wattage to make the perfect flower spectrum compared to the standard spectrum umol for umol, so a chunk of that 25-30% is going to get lost in the process to lower efficiency.
but i recon we could still see a 10% wattage saving with current tech and this will only rise in future as more leds are designed from the ground up for horticulture ie different pumps/phosphors.
What's nope about?